Marriage No Longer A Choice

The divorce rate statistics commonly quoted are somewhat out of context. You really should look way more carefully at them. How many FIRST marriages fail? How many first marriages in different age groups fail? How many of those statistics are second marriages. More than a few are actually second marriages to the same person. Try that one on for size.

Anyways.

Here is a test I have done on any guy who wanted "more" in a relationship with me. (I am married with children. I also had common law relationship for several years.)

I want you to think of a man.

Now see his wife.

Now see his girlfriend.

Do they look like the same woman?






If the answer is no, then YOU have a fundamental expectation difference between what you think of for a commitment and "just" dating. Even the woman you date and the woman you want for a wife isn't even the same person.


Meaning, YES, a real commitment that means something actually does mean something to you. The "piece of paper" means more than love to you, and that difference is important.

Because it means that YOU also have a distinction in your head about YOUR role. Meaning that that little "we don't need paper" thing is a load of horse pukey with you. It means that you want a wife and you want her to have a boyfriend in return.


SOME people don't have a difference in that visual. But most do. And that is why the "marriage" thing is different than not being married.

If it weren't different, you would gladly do so also. It wouldn't MEAN anything to you so you would flippantly find it of no consequence.

That you don't, that it causes you to balk - that is also a sign that marriage means something different to you than love and a girlfriend.

That's enough for now.

[edit on 2010/3/9 by Aeons]

reply to post by SpacePunk


i know i dont know where i stand on the issue anyway only 15 here.

reply to post by Aeons


im sorry i didnt do more research i usually only have 3replies to my posts but anyway yes i know. im somewhere inbetween i wouldnt mind dating forever but it doesnt make a difference to me as long as i get one of those things that protects your money in case of a divorce (forgot the name)

reply to post by chaseninja


I think you're right. Marriage goes a long way back, basically for three different reasons:
1) to help keep the peace in the old days so people would stop fighting over who owns a woman
2) for religious purposes to enforce growing the community of believers
3) to build society; more people = safety in numbers

Today is different than any other time in history. Marriage means something different than it used to. I say go do what you want to do, someday if you find someone who will grow and develop alongside you and you want to be together for the long run then ~maybe~ consider it.

reply to post by Thermo Klein


my EXACT thoughts

Your money?

You rich? Bringing multiple millions into the relationship with you?

If you and another person get together, then money is a pooled resource to make things work.

You are likely to enter marriage IN DEBT. And just like with coming in with lots of money, that is yours. But the debt you incur in marriage is both of yours.

If she doesn't work, or works less that doesn't mean that her labour isn't of value. Particularly as a primary parent. That work has value - if she works less it lets you work MORE and pursue more by taking care of the "other" aspects of your life.

You think that worthless? People pay lots of money for that sort of help.

If she makes more that you - quite possible particularly if she has post secondary education - then that works the opposite way.

What if you are the one that makes less money, and therefore pick up more of the "other" work involved in your combined life? What if you end up as the primary parent?

Do you think that if everything crashes down around you two, that she should up and leave and you should be left with children and no money and she doesn't share "her" money with you because what you did for the two of you is valueless? Literally worthless?

Challenge your underlying assumptions about the "roles" you've seen and the way you've "cast" people in the play you have for you life.

The play you have written, unconsciously, is not nice. It is not a life you want to live.

Originally posted by chaseninja
reply to post by Aeons

 

im sorry i didnt do more research i usually only have 3replies to my posts but anyway yes i know. im somewhere inbetween i wouldnt mind dating forever but it doesnt make a difference to me as long as i get one of those things that protects your money in case of a divorce (forgot the name)

[edit on 2010/3/9 by Aeons]

reply to post by chaseninja


Read some of my other posts.
Marriage hooks you into a legal and binding commitment.

Be warery, very warey.

As as male you have no rights.

You have EXACTLY the same rights as she does.

Isn't that just terrifying?

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by chaseninja

 

Read some of my other posts.
Marriage hooks you into a legal and binding commitment.

Be warery, very warey.

As as male you have no rights.

reply to post by Aeons


thats not what i ment to say. i mean i dont want them to have everything some? sure. half? probably but it depends. more than that? no. but im just a kid talking about "grownup things" maybe im looking at this wrong. maybe i just watch to much two and a half men and dont want to be alan. either way im open minded so tell me what you think and ill consider it. nothings set in stone for me

reply to post by ofhumandescent


ill look into them. thank you

The division is half in a divorce. Not "more" than half.

If you have children, your contribution to their life will be assessed unless you have 50-50 custody. A state most men do not pursue.

When people think that "the other person" got more they usually see the children involved as an extension of their spouse or themselves and not as separate individuals. So if the other person gets half of the equity of the relationship AND they have to pay child support, that means "they" got more.

Are you just an extension of your mother or father?

No, you are a separate human being with different needs due to your current stage of life. You don't wear your mother's clothes. You don't share her mouth.

Child support is not the same thing as division of assets. It is a separate matter because children are real actual people - and common sense and the law recognizes this.

Even if many bitter people do not.

If you do divorce, have children and you do not want to pay "more than half" then you need to take your children for a 50-50 split.

At this point there will be some guys who come crying that this doesn't happen.

Let me assure you that just about every state judiciary has run studies and found that men who PURSUE custody get it. 70% of the time, a man who asks for sole custody gets it. 70%. That is a MORE than equal chance at FULL custody.

Most men do not try to get 50-50 or Full custody. So when they cry, most of the time they never even TRIED to get it in court. So do not be fooled by their tales of evil-female-woe.

Originally posted by chaseninja
reply to post by Aeons

 

thats not what i ment to say. i mean i dont want them to have everything some? sure. half? probably but it depends. more than that? no. but im just a kid talking about "grownup things" maybe im looking at this wrong. maybe i just watch to much two and a half men and dont want to be alan. either way im open minded so tell me what you think and ill consider it. nothings set in stone for me

reply to post by Aeons


well thanks again i will definitely think about what you said your definately a bright one. i cant imagine not fighting for half custody but thats just me.

I want you to have as good of a life as you can.

And the unexamined baggage of the damaged people you've unconsciously picked up can be poison.

I want you to live YOUR life.

They've already messed theirs up. Don't let them take YOU with them.

Copy the examples of people who have what you want.

Do NOT copy the examples and thought processes of the people who have given you the baggage - clearly, their way of doing things is demonstrably not what you would EVER want! Clearly you don't want to emulate the way they think!

Originally posted by chaseninja
reply to post by Aeons

 

well thanks again i will definitely think about what you said your definately a bright one. i cant imagine not fighting for half custody but thats just me.

i bet your school still has textbooks from the 50's. it's all a bunch of religious rubbish if you ask me the scool just wants to spread it's bull# christianity around i think

Great post and observation. I have been with my girl for 9 years. We both don't want marriage because we agree that is more of a religious thing. Our friends continuously badger us about marriage and it has no doubt ended a few friendships, since it leads to arguments over it. You get tired of repeating, "leave us alone, we're happy, in love and not leaving each other".

Not shockingly 2 of 4 couples who pushed us towards marriage are recently divorced after 2-4 years of marriage, and one other one is having issues stemming from just how faithful a partner was.

Originally posted by Aeons
The division is half in a divorce. Not "more" than half.
[/quote/


...thats not an absolute... it depends upon whether or not you live in a community property state - and - whether or not theres a prenuptial agreement...

Of course they want you to get married, and then divorced, and then remarried. First off, have to keep them lawyers in business! And if you have a messy divorce maybe they can throw Childrens Services into the mix. Gotta have as many dysfunctional zombies as possible!

But seriously, look at the income tax forms. Single people filing with separate incomes get larger deductions that married people with combined deductions. Plus, if you get divorced each parent may be paying property taxes in two separate districts! Yee haw!

It's a win win for the ole government. If you get married you pay more taxes and when you get divorced you pay even more taxes, they get you comin' and goin'. As far as STD's, wear a "raincoat" and know your partner if you're single, it isn't perfect but it reduces risks. If you're crazy enough to fool around wear one then too, you don't want to take anything home you can't eat or drink.

Cheers - Dave

I had these very same ideals for the majority of my life. I said I would never, ever, ever get married - because it's just a piece of paper, and I don't need that to symbolize my love.

But here's the thing, and here's what happened to me. I 'found' (was someone I've known since a child) someone whom I loved with every ounce of my soul. And when you find that someone, there isn't a piece of paper or band of metal on this planet that will change that. However, it shows commitment to the other party. While YOU may think marriage is stupid and worthless, chances are she does not - whether due to social conditioning, or anything else, the wedding is about her and your union, and that's it.

I'm not religious, so I had a non-denominational wedding.

When it comes down to it, it's a legally binding contract. More so, that should only be an issue if you're concerned that what you have will not last as long as you vowed; in which case, you should not have vowed it in the first place. Divorce is expensive, choose wisely.

Secondly, I work for lawyers. Unfortunately, none of them are specifically divorce lawyers. But you know what? If you have an unfaithful male (statistics) then the female SHOULD have specific rights to things you both own, and they can't give it to you both. Let's be realistic. You want her to have nothing, realistically, she should have everything because you likely broke your vowes.

Lawyers really aren't the evil people the movies and the criminals make them out to be.

[edit on 10-3-2010 by Ecidemon]

Do you know why the divorce rates in this country are so high?

Because a lot of people in this country no longer have Morals, Integrity, Character, Honesty, and Decency.

Marriage has nothing to do with religion, or tax breaks, or prenuptial agreements, or child custody, or property rights, or government conspiracies to make money off of your misery.

Marriage, in it's TRUE sense, is an unbreakable bond between two people that love each other unconditionally, without strings, and without fail.

Just like the wedding band is a symbol of love. A seamless circle of love that has no beginning and no end.

Marriage is a celebration of that love. That's why we have a wedding celebration with friends and family. That's why we celebrate anniversaries. Not because it's the "normal" thing to do. Because you want to celebrate you love and share the celebration with the other people in your life whom are special to you.

Marriage marks the combining of two individuals into a single union. It is no longer "you" and "I", it is "Us".

Far too many people today do not understand and recognize what love is and what it means to love someone. There are numerous levels and depths of love in this world.

Our society has become so dependent on instant self gratification that we have lost the basic elements of appreciation. We've let our perverted perceptions of sex, money and the material world cloud our deffinitive understanding of love.

Love is not sex.
Love is not money.
Love is not materialistic.

You're 15 years old ...Don't grow up thinking that love and marriage is about halves and thirds, or the accumulation and redistribution of wealth and objects. Don't let someone elses idea of love and marriage define your own thoughts and feelings.