Please read, this is very important "Joe Stack and John Bedell Connection"

Originally posted by dune_mister
this is the main reason why sites like abovetopsecret.com should be shut down by the law enforcement for spreading rumors and fake politics.The owners just want to make money.

Indeed. And we should pretend free speech isn't valuable and all of democracy isn't based on it. The "law enforcement" should have control over the internet and shut down every web site that contains information they find disagreeable. After all, it's against the law to say things that are untrue, just watch TV or read anything and you'll see.

More importantly, people speaking out of turn is doing real harm. Look at the 9/11 truth movement! We should shut down all their websites because their message has been deemed invalid by the authorities! And of course the authorities should decide what goes, what do you think, that they are just fallible human beings? That they maintain anything less than perfect ethics? Or that they don't have your best interests in mind? Just look at their track record! Spotless. No ethical violations, no lies, no abuses of power... in fact, the more history you look at the more you become convinced that in societies where the government controls what people can say, the better life is for everyone!

You've really hit the nail on head with this one my friend, ATS should be shut down by law enforcement. But what would happen to your account?

EDIT:

I have had a change of heart and think the best course is to watch, to wait, and then evaluate.

I am concerned about the USA governmental agencies fishing expeditions with posts like the OP in order to gather names for 'watch lists' ... and this smells of those fishing expeditions to me.

[edit on 6/3/10 by Pellevoisin]

Update


The OP has returned as many of you know here is the list of responses by him so far in Bold:

3/6/2010 8:24 am

Come on guys... "My password cannot be cracked. It would take longer to crack an 8096 bit RSA encryption key, than my self-made encryption system." Yeah, right... 8096 is not a power of 2... it would be 8192... "I have created a virus that will spread on a massive scale and automatically upload all the evidence I have against them to the victims PC" A virus that will spread on a massive scale on random computers? Yeah, right... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908254

You are absolutely right it would be 8192 bit. That is rather embarrassing. In my defence, it had been well over 24 hours since I last slept, and I'm one of those that really needs it.

3/6/2010 8:32 am

OP in your opinion what can we, the citizens, do to regain more control of our situation? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 749245

I've been brainstorming this question and it is really hard to say. They can see our actions 27 hours before they occur, so it really makes it difficult. What ideas do you have?

3/6/2010 8:40 am

why did stack fly his plane into the building or did he? why not just come out with the truth and be set free? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908106

Absolutely not. I believe the CIA shoved him in the plane against his will, and then somehow guided it into the building. Joe would never do something like that.

3/6/2010 9:18 am

do you think they uploaded his manifesto as well? seems like "they" could upload child porn into anyone's computer then raid their homme and perp walk you out in front of the cameras showing the porn.....everyone hates a pedophile so its easy to destroy you and your credibility. all the while, you have never looked at child porn in your life. i am seeing this "destroy the perp" moving towards anti gov, dissident type behavior......certainly interesting for sure as their agenda is changing. i am an attorney, you should hire one and spill the beans into his or her file....privileged....lock it up sealed tight and put away forever....then if something happens to you, then you know that the truth can be revealed if that is your wish.....hire one you can trust.... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 908106

They did upload his manifesto, but parts of his manifesto were legitimately written by him. They modified the "manifesto" significantly. He was going to go public with all this info, and had a letter typed up explaining everything. Strangely enough, a few hours before he was going to go public, he flies his plane into the building, and the letter that once had the truth, had been turned into a rant about the IRS.

3/6/2010 9:43 am

I'm going to type up two reports: The first one is going to the details pertaining to how this system works. The second will my best analysis of effects and implications this has had on society so far.

3/6/2010 10:59 am

First, we are going to need a few definitions: For the purpose this essay, the definition of energy is: a necessary condition for a particle to exist in time. Therefore we can say: a particle has energy if and only if it exists in time. Time will be casually defined as a "release valve" for energy. So, time allows particles to release energy. Definition of a Vector Space: A vector space defined over a field K is a set V with two operations: vector addition, which we will denote as +, and scalar multiplication, denoted using concatenation, satisfying the following axioms: 1.) V is an Abelian group with operation vector addition 2.) V is closed under scalar multiplication. Also, if a and b are in K and v is in V, then 1v = v (where 1 is the identity vector) and (ab)v = a(bv) 3.) the distributive law holds Definition of Linear Subspace If V is a vector space over a field K and W is a non-empty subset of V, then W is called a linear subspace of V (over K) if and if W is a vector space using the same operations as those in V. Definition of span Given a set of vectors S = [ v in V : i in I], where V is a vector space and I is some index set, then the collection of all finite linear combinations of elements of S is called the span of S, and is denoted by span(S). That concludes our definitions, now on to theorems we will need. Theorem 1.1 The subset W1 = [0] is a subspace of all V vector spaces. Let the vector space V represent all possible permutations of time that a particle may exist in, then, assuming the present is the 0 vector, the energy of a particle represents the subspace S of time. All of the actual instances of time we exist in is represented by span(S). So let us say a particles energy level is relatively low and only includes the subspace 0, then the span(0) = 0 which means we only exist in the present. The linear subspace S increases as energy is added, therefore increasing span(S), which means the instances of time a particle exists in is increasing. As a particle begins to lose energy, the cardinality of span(S) decreases. This means that whenever a particle loses enough energy it span(S) will collapse back to the 0 vector. This explains the twin paradox. The man returns younger than his twin because his span(S) collapses back to a span(S) = [0] at an earlier point than his brothers span(S) = [0 sub(1)] (note: sub(1) denotes subscript 1). The problem of locality has long escaped quantum physicists, and it is no different for me. For some unknown reason, a particle whose |span(S)| > 0 is able to communicate with itself instantaneously over its different components of span(S). Hence, when the satellite exists in more than one subspace S, the satellite of time 0 (present) retains all information of the same satellite at the component 1 (future) of subspace S. So in layman's terms, as the satellite's energy speed continues to increase, it's mass does not change as it is described in mainstream physics, but the time frames in which it exists increases. At the mid level energy spaces, this makes the satellite appear to gain more mass, but once it reaches high energy levels this effect is exonerated. The satellite then "exists" in more than one instance of time, but retains all the information that all the other replicas of itself in different time frames hold due to locality. This makes it possible to exert information from the future. Note: this is not meant to be a formal proof and it is my hope that anyone with a simple understanding of linear algebra may be able to interpret this.

Will update more if the OP comes out with more later...hopefully a report

-Kdial1

Originally posted by dune_mister
this is the main reason why sites like abovetopsecret.com should be shut down by the law enforcement for spreading rumors and fake politics.The owners just want to make money.

In that case the government should seriously considering going after every news outlet then. I mean, really, have you seen what Perez Hilton puts out? This is a conversation board about conspiracies. If you can't wear your big boy pants and deal with it, don't log on. If you think it's that dangerous, don't come here. Inevitably, there will be some unfounded content. Notice it's in the "hoax" area. It's an interesting conversation either way and you don't have to partake.

Moderator's note -- later information posted by the original poster on GLP was easily discredited by that group, and when an attempt to tie it into the Norway Spiral (which the poster mis-located to another country) and time travel, the incident unraveled as a hoax.

I am trying to find out where this was posted by the OP. Can you please just send me a U2U letting me know, I cannot locate this information!

You do realize that the OP is not using the same sproxy server right? He is posting under a different proxy (Anonymous coward: 803615). The Norway thing was posted by someone else using the proxy the OP originally used to post this info. secretaccess.org, unfortunately anyone can access this proxy and post on the site as the OP. However the original OP clarified this

Thanks,

Kdial1



[edit on 6-3-2010 by kdial1]

reply to post by kdial1


If the satellite "spans" into the future, the only things it will see there are other things that also span into the future. Presumably the hockey game which first tipped these guys off would not have the same amount of energy(by his definition) as a satellite travelling fast. How could information about the hockey game span into the future?

All fast moving objects should exhibit the same future seeing property as this mystery satellite, they do not.

EM energy travels at the speed of light. This should mean it's span is infinite, or at least very large. We cannot extract information about the future from EM energy.

This theory would imply reverse causality in all sufficiently energetic bodies. If they span into the future and information about the future is accessable in the present then that information from the future is having a causal effect on the present. This means that the cause is preceeded by its effect. We do not find evidence of reverse causality in energetic bodies.

It really doesn't seem like reality works the way that this guy is describing it.

reply to post by undo


You misunderstand my intent. The fact is, that when schizophrenia expresses itself for whatever combination of genetic, social, or environmental reasons, that there is a pattern which has been recognized by studies and my own personal experience in Psychiatry (with the understanding that statistics are an aggregated look at the world, not a specific, individual one). But it does not work backwards, i.e. until you get to the point where the actual break from reality happens with some combination of the associated negative and positive symptoms (as defined in the DSM 4), you are not schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a very specific illness with symptoms that are fairly similar across the board although exactly what ideas the mind will cling to varies from person to person and their context. My intent in posting was only to point out that crazy does not in any stretch = stupid, and to state that the disease ebbs and flows with periods (sometimes years) of lucidity. This also holds true to the other mental illnesses with delusional components, but they have different flavours and associated symptoms. Thus, you can not determine that the Pentagon bomber did not battle mental illness b/c he he spoke elegantly at one point. Schizophrenia is a very harrowing illness, and it's sufferers have my utmost respect and compassion. They are amazing people to talk with, and those that have managed to find their place in the world despite these periodic voyages outside reality are truely extraordinary people.

I would be happy to point you in the direction of research and books that speak to this disease. To start, this is the DSM 4 diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia (you will see that there is a whole lot more than just having unusual ideas about the world): counsellingresource.com...

Edit to add: By far the most common delusions are religiously based. In this case, we have a person who focuses on the subject to a truely impressive degree which coincides with our societies belief structures, thus they are not rebelling against it at all. It is not the ideas per see that define schizophrenia (even the most "wacky"), it is the behavior, thought process, disordered speech and unbending beliefs of the person that defines the disorder which usually causes a significant amount of damage in their personal lives. It's hard to express in words to someone who has not interacted with individuals w/ Schizophrenia, but there is a true qualifiable difference between folks with unusual ideas and interests and people with this disorder.

[edit on 3/6/2010 by DeathTribble]

reply to post by boredsilly


That's a really excellent point, Bored. While I am sure they do have "super computers" capable of crunching enormous amount of information, your process is far more elegant than the one originally presented. Star for you!

My other issue on a theoretical basis would be, I guess you'd call it the Grandson paradox? IF they look into the future and pick up that Iran drops the atomic bomb on Israel, and they then do something to stop this event, the event will not have happened for it to have been reported in the first place. Add this to the "butterfly effect", and since their window is so small they could conceivably change things very much for the worst inadvertently. My last problem is technical, physics suggests that an object going 1/2 light speed would be much heavier than it is in it's normal space/time location, requiring that much more energy to propel it. How is the dang thing getting gassed up w/ out losing any speed? Is it solar powered? Even if the gov. is 20 odd years beyond the general community's technology, is it really reasonable to think that in 1986 they had the technology to do this?

For my part, I'm treating it as an ARG, a reasonably entertaining way to pass a weekend stuck in bed with a cold.

It is a BASIC understanding in Quantum Mechanics that the future of a system can be CONSTRUCTED using the PAST. All this guy did was give you a few simple equations and the identity matrix and this means satellites can see into the future? PREPOSTEROUS. And anyone else with any kind of Quantum Mechanical background would agree. But most people wont understand what he is saying and mistake him for a genius with a true story to tell. This is not new information he is regurgitating and trying to sell his story like those Quantum Religious individuals on youtube telling you that you can create your own future through thought and that everything is connected so you are everything. Complete misunderstanding but you idiots EAT IT UP. ATS is riddled with fools.

reply to post by kdial1


Yea kdial. I checked and didn't see the reply the moderator is talking about. They need to find it and cite it cause I definitely didn't see any such thing, and if it exist, they should cite exactly what was said.

Originally posted by Pocky
reply to post by kdial1

 

Yea kdial. I checked and didn't see the reply the moderator is talking about. They need to find it and cite it cause I definitely didn't see any such thing, and if it exist, they should cite exactly what was said.

I think the moderator is referring to page 23. Unfortunately that is not the OP, just someone using the Proxy server the OP used.

Here is the post:

Zero; TTM to open as it did over Norway

edit: I am assuming that TTM stands for "The Time Machine".


-Kdial1

[edit on 6-3-2010 by kdial1]

I unfortunately got sucked into this story last night, and I stayed up until the wee hours of the morning reading it over there.

My impression was the OP only posted the first post.

Using a proxy made it simple for anyone to say they were the OP and all of a sudden, we have someone claiming to be OP now posting from a new IP, so there is now a new AC#. The new AC# had other posts in other threads.

In no way can anyone say any post other than OP was done by original OP.

And since it was a proxy, others could have used the proxy before.

In fact, the OP claimed the Joe and John told him the government was worse than they could have thought.

Yet the supposed OP comes back and claims that the government really has our best interest at hearts.

That makes me think it was not the OP any more, and possibly lends credence to the OP being TRUE, vs what is now doomed as a hoax, because people (who are supposed to be critically thinking!!) are taking on assumption and fact OP actually returned to thread after OP.

SO.

IF (and I am not claiming to believe or disbelieve) this OP is true, then what better way to debunk this and toss it into unbelievable kook territory then by a government agent posing as OP and posting updates, like the faculty meeting, which is ridiculous, and then because the govt agent cannot help themselves, they have to DEFEND themselves by saying the government really has our best interest at heart. THAT is not what OP said!!

In fact it smacks straight up of spook disinformation to me, taken in tandem with the OP.

Anyway, I don't know if this is a hoax or not, so how was it 'proven' to be a hoax?

I guess I will have to surf over there and read on.

Interestingly, a lot of good sleuthing went on in the GLP thread, and some posters over there are convinced GLP is being used by AC's to communicate encoded messages.

Very entertaining for a Friday night, thats for sure.

The mods at ATS were too quick to right this off as a hoax (although its possible it might be). As has been stated, the posts by OP were by people testing out his proxy, not the OP himself.

However, there is some corroborating evidence that came out:

President Clinton appoints Cylink CEO William Crowell to a special committee on encryption. William Crowell releases publicity statements on new recommendations about United States encryption policy and certain export regulations are relaxed, waiving Cylink's earlier export violations.

Since February 2003, Mr. Crowell has worked as an independent consultant in the areas of information technology, security and intelligence systems and serves as Chairman of the Senior Advisory Group to the Director of National Intelligence. He served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Cylink Corporation, a provider of network security solutions, from 1998 until its acquisition by SafeNet, Inc. in February 2003. Prior to Cylink, Mr. Crowell worked at the National Security Agency, where he held a series of senior executive positions, including Deputy Director of Operations and Deputy Director of the NSA.

cryptome.org...
people.forbes.com...

Here's an archive of Joe Stack's customers. Who's the first customer listed?

Cylink Corporation
Project: The Cylink CY8300 IPSec high-performance security processor

Write an IPSec Datagram generation/encryption utility for packet generation, encryption/decryption (using DES, TDES, & SHA-1) and authentication (using SHA-1, MD5, HMAC-SHA1, HMAC-MD5, & DES-MAC)

www.embeddedart-joseph-stack-texas-plane-crash.com...

Seems like he would have needed an encryption guru to help him with the encryption/decryption algorithms (every software developer is not a math expert, contrary to popular opinion). Someone like a math professor, who specializes in cryptology? This adds credibility to the OP's story.

reply to post by seattletruth


Can you guys please watch the Dr Bill Deagles on the recent thread I posted? See if it clicks with what the guy at GLP is saying.

reply to post by Pocky


Of course they have supercomputers, but that doesn't tie in so much to the future-satellite thing I don't think.

Can someone please explain why this had been labeled a HOAX???

reply to post by Signals


It was labeled a HOAX cause a mod at ATS didn't actually read the GLP posts correctly, and assumed that because a post had the same account as the OP, that it was actually the OP, and they were linking it to the Norway spiral (and called it the Copenhagen spiral or something).

However, that post was just made by somebody who was testing the proxy, not the OP himself.

It's still possible it might not be a hoax.

Can we say suckers.... I cannot believe this thread has gone on for as long as it has. Oh well...just goes to show why hoaxers do what they do....always the gullible ready and willing to believe anything posted out there. I will not reply back...due to the fact it is very clear you will continue to believe whatever it is.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by kerazeesicko]

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Can we say suckers...

. I cannot believe this thread has gone on for as long as it has. Oh well...just goes to show why hoaxers do what they do....always the gullible ready and willing to believe anything posted out there. I will not reply back...due to the fact it is very clear you will continue to believe whatever it is.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by kerazeesicko]

I challenge you to find two people in this thread that have said they 100% believe this guys story.

Belief and keeping a open mind are two different things.

Also as has been said repeatedly its cheap entertainment.

Careful up there on that horse its a nasty fall from so high.

reply to post by kdial1



Interesting thread... and alot to catch up on. Looks like I'll be busy for the next few of days.