I Want More: The Addiction Conspiracy

reply to post by Death_Kron


Quitting for you should be quite easy then, if the foundation is good to go, so to speak.

You say you enjoy smoking, i ask why? If the foundations are good, the only reason left should be the feeling of nicotine in your veins and your addiction to it?

If so, here is a simple method for quitting: Go out and buy some nicotine gum. When you feel like smoking, take so many nicotine gums that you feel horrible and then go for the smoke, preferably throw up during the smoke. Next time you feel like going for a smoke, do the same thing. Continue, until you wake up one morning and have no cravings for the cig.

Originally posted by Ridhya
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Do they have physical addictive properties? COuld that just be something to say to make you believe you need them, a subtle information implant?

Does withdrawal cause health problems? I will tell you are 100% wrong that it causes death at least. Its effects are purely psychological. Notice the emotional effects and stress of someone quitting smoking and freaking out, compare to someone who left a relationship angrily... see a similarity..?

Point 2 I dont mean a conscious purpose really, its subconscious, I was EXACTLY like you I enjoyed it as relaxing and stimulant, but you see when it started to be 'abused' I realised it was for the sense of subconscious purpose, and no longer merely because it was enjoyable, in fact it became unenjoyable after a while...

I can tell you 100% that if a heavy drinking alcoholic simply stops drinking he will suffer physical withdrawal effects and its always advised to never simply stop because you can suffer seizures, blackouts and yes it can even kill you.

Personally I think there are two types of smokers to be honest, those who smoke because they enjoy it and those who smoke because theyre addicted to the nicotine, not saying those who enjoy it aren't addicted to some level.

You can't possible be arguing that Nicotine isn't an addictive drug?

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by above
The most important thing that has come up in this thread regarding to addiction - or more specifically smoking - is the idea that smoking gives you purpose, it gives you reason.

i think it's probably true of most people who become addicts. everyone needs a reason to get up in the morning and keep going. if all other reasons are stripped away, some people will turn to the bottle and the needle.

it's not that there aren't other reasons there, it's just that what has happened is so awful that everything seems so futile in the face of it. if everything feels pointless, some survival part of you will discover a point, at almost any cost. ...

Exactly. It has even been proven that during national emergency people are less depressed - they get a reason - to keep on going.

[edit on 3/5/2010 by above]

reply to post by pieman


Sorry I must have mistaken something, I am posting on several threads at once. Must be the OCD

Actually, no one is severely encumbered with the severe components of OCD in my immediate family, but there a couple of both cousins and aunts suffering from the severe compulsions. I am from a LARGE family.

I feel compulsions are a MAJOR part of the pyschological problems today. You could almost categorize MOST pyschological problems with them.

I know for a fact I suffer from a mild case of it. While building large projects I cannot walk away from things that need my attention. I have tried, I cannot sleep and continue to work on them in my head. It does become a problem. I have used alcohol to shut my brain down it has become so bad.

I feel the drugs that are prescribed for it do not do much better than basic alcohol. You just need SOMETHING to slow down the compulsion.

Anyway, nice discussion here.

God Bless and Peace.

Originally posted by above
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Quitting for you should be quite easy then, if the foundation is good to go, so to speak.

You say you enjoy smoking, i ask why? If the foundations are good, the only reason left should be the feeling of nicotine in your veins and your addiction to it?

If so, here is a simple method for quitting: Go out and buy some nicotine gum. When you feel like smoking, take so many nicotine gums that you feel horrible and then go for the smoke, preferably throw up during the smoke. Next time you feel like going for a smoke, do the same thing. Continue, until you wake up one morning and have no cravings for the cig.

You would think so wouldn't you? I think I could quit smoking quite easily to be honest, I think it would probably bother me at times but after one week I think I could crack it.

My problem is that at the minute I enjoy smoking more than I want to quit smoking. As to why I enjoy it? Well I do like the feeling of nicotine in my veins but I'll admit I love a cig with a pint and they do help when I'm stressed.

I don't smoke because I'm stressed but if I get annoyed I'll have a cig. I have a feeling your now going to tell me I shouldn't be annoyed in the first place but everyone gets angry at times.

I've heard of a similiar method to stop smoking, put cigs ends and ash in a bottle with water, every time you feel like a cig take a sniff out of the bottle.

Re-conditioning the mind to associate that craving for a cigarette with that awful smell in the bottle.

reply to post by above

Haha I see you as well comrade...
military service definitely 'helps' and so does a partner who does... my last girlfriend did far more than me and basically I started upping my intake so I could kind of... be with her more? I suppose.

What you're saying is absolute, after she moved away I drank and smoked like crazy as a means to fill the void (though 15 litres of vodka is Northern Europe standard )

I know it helps not but I am very sorry to hear of your girlfriend passing and wish her all the best.... but as one of my good old comrades said to me "when they leave you long to be with them. When they die you long for them. The difference is possibility, and you will hate yourself every day that you cant be with the living."

Freud said that depression is emotions turned onto yourself... you are absolutely correct. You smoke and drink more to: punish yourself, passively kill yourself, create purpose.

Been there done that... Do Svidaniya to it.

I felt the same way after too. Theres purpose in life. And I finally figured out what meant by that which doesnt kill you... I fele myself a way better person for struggles, depressing times, but life would be static without conflict... and allows us to appreciate the little things so much more...

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Yeah, I suppose that would make perfect sense. So, essentially what your saying is that people who become addicted to gambling or alcohol do so because of a combination of personality traits that they possess and other do not?

The only problem I see there is such a combination becomes counter-productive rather than an advantage i.e. it doesn't benefit anyone to be an alcoholic or gambling addict.

Or are those two addictions simply negative by-products?

I would go with "negative by-products" on this one.

Sometimes in biology, this kind of phenomenon is called a spandrel. A spandrel is the curved triangualar shape that can be found between arches in a cathedral or other old classical/medieval buildings. Spandrels are often painted or carved. People might wonder, "why did they decide to make this triangular-shaped art?" But actually it wasn't a decision to make art in this shape: rather, the shape emerged as a consequence of the architecutre of the building, and they decorated them after the fact. Perhaps addictions are similar. (I hope that makes some sort of sense).

reply to post by silent thunder


Another interesting fact and fantastic analogy, thanks for that.

It could be entirely possible, sounds like a valid enough theory.

[edit on 5/3/10 by Death_Kron]

Originally posted by Death_Kron
The only problem I see there is such a combination becomes counter-productive rather than an advantage i.e. it doesn't benefit anyone to be an alcoholic or gambling addict.

Doesnt it benefit anyone?
With alcohol it becomes an immediate escape from reality. With gambling it becomes a matter of covering your losses.
"I lost so much, I cant afford to leave until I win some more". Then, "I won a bit therefore it is very possible to win again!!" Positive reinforcement.

reply to post by Death_Kron

My whole point though being, is it physically not using alcohol that does it? Or psychologically not using it that does it?

reply to post by Ridhya


Okay, I see your point about gambling and positive reinforcement, I've never looked it that way before but I'm not really a gambling man.

I have drank in the past to escape my problems so to speak and yes I can understand that.

I suppose they do benefit people but only in the short term, obviously sustained heavy drinking or uncontrollable gambling eventually brings major problems.

Science gives medical and physical reasons why people die after suddenly quitting alcohol but I take your point about is it psychological.

However, I'm unsure whether you can die through simply thinking your not going to be able to cope without alcohol, cigarettes or gambling...?

Originally posted by Ridhya
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Do they have physical addictive properties? COuld that just be something to say to make you believe you need them, a subtle information implant?

Does withdrawal cause health problems? I will tell you are 100% wrong that it causes death at least. Its effects are purely psychological. Notice the emotional effects and stress of someone quitting smoking and freaking out, compare to someone who left a relationship angrily... see a similarity..?

In the case of nicotine withdrawal, sure, not very likely to kill you...But in the case of alcohol, withdrawal from heavy and long term alcohol use can and does kill people...

reply to post by Retrovertigo


It certainly does, something to do with checmicals in the brain produced by excessive drinking over a long period of time then when the drinking stops the chemical build up becomes too much for the brain to handle, not sure of the exact science.

It could be that most peoples addictions are merely ways to fill that 'empty space' we all feel inside ourselves, the space that people say is never truly filled until they have found God.

Originally posted by Nventual
It could be that most peoples addictions are merely ways to fill that 'empty space' we all feel inside ourselves, the space that people say is never truly filled until they have found God.

or is god just another way of filling the empty space?

Originally posted by Nventual
It could be that most peoples addictions are merely ways to fill that 'empty space' we all feel inside ourselves, the space that people say is never truly filled until they have found God.

Unfortunately not everyone believes in God and I'd go even further and say that hardly any drug addicts or alcoholics do.

But a common theme that is appearing in this thread is that people become addicted to various substances or activities because they have something missing from their lives.

Interesting that some born again Christians used to be alcoholics but then one could ask are they simply replacing their addiction with something else...

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by Nventual
It could be that most peoples addictions are merely ways to fill that 'empty space' we all feel inside ourselves, the space that people say is never truly filled until they have found God.

or is god just another way of filling the empty space?

Beat me to it.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Nventual
It could be that most peoples addictions are merely ways to fill that 'empty space' we all feel inside ourselves, the space that people say is never truly filled until they have found God.

Unfortunately not everyone believes in God and I'd go even further and say that hardly any drug addicts or alcoholics do.

But a common theme that is appearing in this thread is that people become addicted to various substances or activities because they have something missing from their lives.

Interesting that some born again Christians used to be alcoholics but then one could ask are they simply replacing their addiction with something else...

Yes, hardly any drug addicts or alcoholics believe in God, exactly. If they did, and had complete faith, they would no longer have a reason to abuse their bodies because that emptiness would be gone.

You are right addiction starts when somebody has something missing from their life, and they try to fill it with various things. Some people say God is the ultimate object to fill that space with, hence why I mentioned it.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Now ya gettin it!
Its all about rewards. Very simply its part of the Human Condition. We like to do things for purpose and more often positive purpose, ie reward. And obviously, the reward you see now is better than the future reward.

Gambling starts out for the thrill. Its the POSSIBILITY to strike big and have the money solve all of your instant problems. If you want to go in to my territory () its also a lot of psychological warfare, flashing lights pretty colours attractive waitresses, it gets us excited and enthusiastic.

Then you win and are positively reinforced to continue, then you lose and refuse to leave til you get it back!

They call it the point of no return, you've already invested so much in to it, youd rather continue and try to make it back than quit now having lost so much!

See Im not a biologist I dont know about the physical aspects of alcohol of withdrawal as well, but from what I remember it creates stress and anxiety which leads to heart attacks and seizures and other than that I dunno... but as I undertsood it was not common for patients to actually die because with proper 'weaning' to something lighter sedative and stress exercises it would not occur...

Alcohol #s with your nervous system so that is probably to do with it, maybe it just shuts down your body's impulses somehow...? like a paralysing toxin...?

reply to post by Nventual


Yeah you make a good point there, I hadn't thought of actually adding religion to the list of addictions. Obviously to the Christian they would probably laugh if you said they were addicted but in comparison to the average atheist then do appear to be addicted or as the commonly used phrase "brain washed"

reply to post by Death_Kron

And again with positive reinforcement, a person down and out with drug problem/no friends/criminal/depressed all turn to church because people treat them with compassion, friendship, sympathy, help them out, and they see that belief in God is what makes these people help them.

So it makes them want to join the club!

Its not so much God but God by proxy, as any one filling that void (which is most often companionship/loneliness) would make impact on this person... if the people said they worshipped Satan and showed compassion, or were atheist and showed compassion, same deal, its not the idea but the people who are connected to it, filling the void for the depressed person.