I Want More: The Addiction Conspiracy

reply to post by above


First of all I'm sorry to hear about your loss and I wish you the best in coming to terms with it and getting back on your feet.

I would say your smoking and drinking maybe to give you a sense of self worth because your controlling something when, from your response, circumstances were out of your control when your girlfriend died?

reply to post by pieman


I'd agree with you regarding the pseudo-mental health industry, in fact I would say that trend is becoming apparent accross all areas of the health industry not just the psychological one.

I don't think I have a problem however, quite the opposite I enjoy being the person I am.

Like I mentioned I'm not nescessarily talking about addiction from a medical point of view, I'm talking about personality types.

Maybe you would need to know me to understand exactly what I'm talking about.

reply to post by TV_Nation


Exactly the same as me my friend, I don't do anything half-heartedly.

I used to be the same with my weight/boxing training, I almost felt depressed if I missed a workout or couldn't attend a boxing class for some reason.

reply to post by pieman


pieman, so what you are saying is that OCD is not true?

Sorry, my family has several Doctors and they have ALL stated that are family is very much afflicted with it.

I have seen several vids on it and it manifests itself in different ways.

Yes, it has been used to sell crap to people, that is one of the signature aspects of it. The inability of people to stop themselves from a certain compulsion.

Myself, I am compelled to do whatever I apply myself to with nothing but complete abandon.

Just because you may not see the truth of it because you cannot see the inability of someone to not stop a compulsion, does not mean it is not real.

Many people like to look at psychological disorders as if they are the inability of people to control their base instincts. Or what you stated as willpower. Obsessions are real. They, in my viewpoint, are the manifestations of the inability of the mind to perceive danger.

What, are there no diseases? The brain is a organ is it not? Can it not develop a dysfunction?

OCD and addictive personality disorders are FACT!

Quit trying to obfuscate a serious problem!

reply to post by endisnighe


Thanks for that dude, you worded it better than I could.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Not out of control exactly. I just think that i should have known something is not right, and insisted on more tests and medical attention. I blame the doctors, i blame the law, but most of all i blame myself for not doing enough.

Could you call true love an addiction? At least the withdrawal is pure hell, i just don't feel like the same person anymore.

[edit on 3/5/2010 by above]

Originally posted by Death_Kron
I don't think I have a problem however, quite the opposite I enjoy being the person I am.

i'm glad you agree. in that case, why would god do this to you? because he loves you and wants you to have an interesting a varied life!!!

i'm the same as you guys, books, guitar, working out, xbox, music collecting....... on to the next thing. i obsess about stuff for a week, a month or a year and then move on to something else.

it used to be called "having hobbies", now it's called "an addictive personality" because they want to charge you for a cure and get you back to TV hypnosis.

Originally posted by above
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Not out of control exactly. I just think that i should have known something is not right, and insisted on more tests and medical attention. I blame the doctors, i blame the law, but most of all i blame myself for not doing enough.

You can't blame yourself mate, it wasn't your fault and I'm sure you did the best you could.

Would you say your drinking and smoking was down to depression or because as its been mentioned your filling a void?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
The conspiracy angle I wanted answering was how can "God" allow some of us to be addictive people who probably have a greater chance of self destruction in comparison to the rest of us.

I think humans, and all creatures for that matter, are always living on the knife-edge of survival. Everyday millions of people die, and in the end we each die. Why does "God" allow some people to kill each other, for example? That's pretty self-destructive, but we've been doing it on a mass scale since before recorded history began. What about other forms of self-destruction, such as massive depression that leads to suicide?

We have various traits that help in some situations and hurt in others. Sometimes we are lucky (or blessed, if you prefer) enough to be in the right place at the right time, and these traits mesh with our circumstances and help us to survive. But in different circumstances, the same trait can turn out to be a curse.

The world we live in has changed massively in a relatively short amount of time. Agriculture and settled communities only began 10,000 years ago. Picking the rather arbitrary definition of "human" as beginning, say, 200,000 years ago, that means that we have only spent 5% of our time as as a species not being hunter-gatherers. The industrial revolution began only a few centuries ago, and today's steel-and-concrete, halogen-lit computerized world is really only a few decades old. These latter two changes are MASSIVE but only took place in the blink of an eye, compared to our total timeline as a species.

We haven't been able to fully adjust to these changes mentally or physically. Although our lives are more "comfortable" now, we still retain traits that we needed for raw survival for 99% of our time as a species but which may no longer be appropriate. Perhaps addiction can be explained in this way. For example, it is said that people crave sweet food because for hunter-gatherers and early agriculturalists, it was relatively rare to come into contact with large amounts of sugar. So we needed to lap it up whenever we could. The craving for sugar was a trait that helped us survive. But once we began to be able to grow sugar cane (and produce corn syrup, etc.), we suddenly found ourselves with more sugar than we know what to do with. Our ancient craving for it hasn't had time to adjust to the new conditions, so people tend to over-indulge in sugar.



[edit on 3/5/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by endisnighe


god no, OCD is a terrible affliction. i would, in no way, diminish the suffering of those afflicted and their families. my heart goes out to them.

i'm not saying addiction isn't real either.

i'm talking about someone reading 5 books a week for 6 months and then not reading a page for 2 years but going to the gym 6 nights a week. i only wish OCD was of that nature.


[edit on 5/3/10 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman


Well I don't think I have a problem but that isn't to say others don't.

As endisnighe says addictive personality disorder and OCD are very real, just watch some of the people on the Jeremy Kyle show, people who have been told if they carry on drinking they will lose their legs but they continue to do so anyway.

I drink too much and smoke too much, knowing my personality I don't think it would be too difficult for me to become an alcoholic.


[edit on 5/3/10 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by above


Compulsion of love, oh the sweet aspects of it.

One of the most endearing things written, about that very aspect of compulsive disorder of complete and deathly thing known as love, ROMEO AND JULIET.

When I initially read that story, I thought, what the hell did they do that for?

Than, I realized that there are things that even I cannot measure.

As Shakespeare said-or his character Horatio

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. But come; Here, as before, never, so help you mercy, How strange or odd soe'er I bear myself, As I perchance hereafter shall think meet To put an antic disposition on, That you, at such times seeing me, never shall, With arms encumber'd thus, or this headshake, Or by pronouncing of some doubtful phrase, As 'Well, well, we know,' or 'We could, an if we would,' Or 'If we list to speak,' or 'There be, an if they might,' Or such ambiguous giving out, to note That you know aught of me: this not to do, So grace and mercy at your most need help you, Swear.

reply to post by silent thunder


That was a very good and informative post not to mention interesting in regards to a potential theory as to why addiction exists.

On that note however how would it explain gambling or alcohol addictions? Because as far as I'm aware early hunter gatherers neither indulged in drinking or betting.

Not knocking you at all just genuinely interested on your theory/example and how it could be applied to those two things?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by silent thunder

 

That was a very good and informative post not to mention interesting in regards to a potential theory as to why addiction exists.

On that note however how would it explain gambling or alcohol addictions? Because as far as I'm aware early hunter gatherers neither indulged in drinking or betting.

Not knocking you at all just genuinely interested on your theory/example and how it could be applied to those two things?

Those are good questions. I tend to think that these things are probably not caused by a single trait, but by a confluence of traits. So the question becomes: why do some people have certain traits and others do not?

People do not all have the same traits because this makes us more robust as a species. Example: If we were all identical, a virus could easily wipe us all out in a single season. But if some of us are more succeptable to virus "A" and others to virus "B," then whichever comes along, at leas some of us will survive. The traits (probably plural) that lead to various forms of addiction are stronger in some than in others probably for the same reason that some fall more easily to virus "A" than "B," and vice-versa.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Depression.

What is depression? Some say its psychological, others that it has the roots in physical abnormality. The doctors sure seem to think i am depressed, i have already tried two antidepressants in these two months, and they have been the most horrible poisons i have ever ingested.

If depression = To realize that your best years have passed and the rest of your life will be, if not horrible, at least worse then before, and due to this loosing the sense of purpose or reason to live, then yes, i am depressed.



The most important thing that has come up in this thread regarding to addiction - or more specifically smoking - is the idea that smoking gives you purpose, it gives you reason.

Quitting is hard because if you start smoking it already is a symptom of something deeper. If you don't fix the foundation and start building on it (by quitting the cig), you will see that it is a constant battle to try to keep the house from tumbling down (start smoking again). Fix the foundation, and the house will stay up by itself once it is built (you staying away from the cig once the few days of physical withdrawal is over).

[edit on 3/5/2010 by above]

reply to post by silent thunder


Yeah, I suppose that would make perfect sense. So, essentially what your saying is that people who become addicted to gambling or alcohol do so because of a combination of personality traits that they possess and other do not?

The only problem I see there is such a combination becomes counter-productive rather than an advantage i.e. it doesn't benefit anyone to be an alcoholic or gambling addict.

Or are those two addictions simply negative by-products?

reply to post by above


Thats the only problem though, I don't smoke because it gives me a sense of purpose.

I started smoking as an early teen and have done since, I'll admit peer pressure probably played its part to a degree but I obviously don't have that problem any longer.

As I mentioned, I actually enjoy smoking - most of the smokers I know don't.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Do they have physical addictive properties? COuld that just be something to say to make you believe you need them, a subtle information implant?

Does withdrawal cause health problems? I will tell you are 100% wrong that it causes death at least. Its effects are purely psychological. Notice the emotional effects and stress of someone quitting smoking and freaking out, compare to someone who left a relationship angrily... see a similarity..?

Point 2 I dont mean a conscious purpose really, its subconscious, I was EXACTLY like you I enjoyed it as relaxing and stimulant, but you see when it started to be 'abused' I realised it was for the sense of subconscious purpose, and no longer merely because it was enjoyable, in fact it became unenjoyable after a while...


reply to post by endisnighe

Originally posted by endisnigheThe thing is(I love that beginning of a sentence), when you become unemployed like me, my God do we become strange. My house is so....fixed up, it is ridiculous.

We call this Transference as you put your effort reserved for one thing in to another that does not 'deserve' it, ie there is the old joke of rehab The sexaholics are all SMOKING and the alcoholics are all #ING!! they transfer their obsession to something else.

edit to ask-do you make lists, I make lists of things that HAVE to be done

I make lists all the time but more so for my bad memory... it helps to know whats important to be done first!

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Ridhya]

Originally posted by above
The most important thing that has come up in this thread regarding to addiction - or more specifically smoking - is the idea that smoking gives you purpose, it gives you reason.

i think it's probably true of most people who become addicts. everyone needs a reason to get up in the morning and keep going. if all other reasons are stripped away, some people will turn to the bottle and the needle.

it's not that there aren't other reasons there, it's just that what has happened is so awful that everything seems so futile in the face of it. if everything feels pointless, some survival part of you will discover a point, at almost any cost.

i believe that this is why something like ibogaine is so effective at curing so many addictions. it's supposed to put everything back in perspective for you.

Originally posted by Ridhya

Does withdrawal cause health problems? I will tell you are 100% wrong that it causes death at least.

alchohol withdrawal often causes death.