An appeal from a cop...

Edited.
Why bother.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Chance321]

The entire crimestoppers program works on the basis of anonymous tips. What should happen when an anonymous tip has been presented is, an investigation.

The police at the desk in these videos in many cases either refused their duty or directly violated their oaths and arrested the complainant. It was explained in some of these videos that many departments have a policy in place to provide the complaint form to the anonymous person and not interrogate or detain them.

You want it both ways, anonymous complaints to act on if the public steps out of line, but full disclosure when it's a LEO. Not hypocritical?

..Ex

[edit on 3/6/2010 by v3_exceed]

Originally posted by JWH44
Greetings ATS,

I think it is high time I speak out about a trend that I see on these forums that is extremely disheartening to me; the unabashed blanket characterization of law enforcement officers as monsters, thugs, fascists, etc, etc…

Then perhaps what I am about to say will change your mind ......

I know a young woman, who was falsely charged by an ex boyfriend of trying to break into his home (she works as a caregiver for a 80 yr old cancer patient, who at the time the accusations were made, was sitting in a hospital room with that cancer patient after he had a huge tumor removed) and the probation officer over this woman, did not check out the reported incident for validity before they came and arrested her.

I should note that this woman was convicted of a felony years before and has been on probation for 8 of 10 years. Her probation officer filed (4) false and changed reports while this woman was being held in custody, without being charged of anything, and when this woman was interigated by the local police department, she asked for a lawyer and was denied access to one. She also takes several prescribed medications for a heart condition that the police department never made sure she took while in custody. She was held 14 days without charges, shipped to another city where she was held again without charges pending, she was never given her meds, she was constantly harrassed by the jail staff who also got other inmates to try to harrass her while in their care. She never got to see an attorney while in custody and was not given any female hygein products while in their care. They treated her as if she were an Al-Queda member using illegal interagation tactics such as playing music in her cell loud and refusing her basic necessities such as toilet paper and feminine napkins for her period, which she had during her illegal captivity.

On top of all this, denying her access to her medications has caused more severe heart trouble. There is no doubt that what the 2 police and sheriff departments did to her was not only illegal but substantially dangerous to her life. She has begun to gather all she needs for a law suit against both cities/counties that held her and agains the probation people who filed false reports and neglected to verify any of the information given on the matter.

This is absolute corruption and I have not even begun to cover all the bases of what happened to her, i've only just scratched the surface. Everyone who has spent time in the jails in these two cities/counties will have reason to jump on the "Class Action Law Suit" wagon and I can see many cases being overturned and thrown out because of the way this lady was treated while in custody.

So yes, you can see why people hate law enforcement folks. Law Enforcement folks cannot break the law to enforce the law. And when they do, they should be held accountable and made to pay for their arrogant misguided deeds.

reply to post by JWH44


S+F for you JMH44. Excelent post.
I agree with what you are saying and I would like to point out a trend that I have noticed that contributes much to this problem.
That would be Hollywood and the T.V. series industry.
Not all movies or T.V. shows depict bad cops. NO. But I would say that a porcentage much greater than 50% shows us corrupt, mean, murderous, abusive cops. Or just cops as being "in on it" with some bad guys.
This I think has hurt the police officer´s image in general since people are so influenced by movies and television.

My own experience being a person who travels a lot around the U.S. and having lived in a Sherif´s house when I was 18 (exchange student) is that in general U.S. police men are decent guys that you can trust.

Since you mentioned México (where I live and was born) I´ll have to say that you do point to a BIG BIG problem we are having in some of our border cities. However, let´s not lose sight of the fact that those weapons the gangs have, mostly have been "imported" from the U.S. and most of those gangs are in their "buisness" to provide the "drugs" that are mostly consumed in the U.S.

So, with all due respect, I belive we are "sharing" this problem in a bigger way than "the violence in your backyard".
Think of it this way: Every time somebody is shown having a good time "smoking pot" in a film or T.V. program, they are making a direct contribution to that violence, and all those gangs.

Not trying to "lecture" you in any way, as I agree with most of your OP and please believe me, I point this with total respect.
Corruption and bad police ARE a common experience in my contry. There are good cops too, but in a smaller proportion.

Police are the same in every country .....they are criminals wearing a uniform and thats all , generalisation much ...well yeah coz i never met one that isn't bent in some way and we all know it, I just LOVE how the OP is even trying to smugly con you all into thinking he is the good guy....

Do you think Steve McQueen played a good cop in the movie Bullet? he was surrounded by bent cops an politicians! all movies that try to be realistic about a cops life is a reflection of society at large!

I think you mis-understand the request. These people are asking for a form to take with them, either to fill out at home, or perhaps with a lawyer, whatever. The feeling I get , and I'm sure the people in the vid, is that that
they are going to be judged by the cop as to the validity of the claim.

No one expects the form to be Anonymous, that would be pointless.
I'm sure the forms have , Complainant, Accused name or badge number, then the details of the offense.

But if you are going to complain against a cop, NO ONE wants to do it in the
Lion's Den , so to speak.

This is just another way to curb ANY complaints , so again, people , citizens,
feel bullied and helpless against the Cops.

Hence , more Resentment.

Exactly!

The Cops in the video are clearly trying to intimidate the man into not filing a complaint!

funny how they want to see his ID...
NOW THEY KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE

If you file a complaint against the bloods/crips/mafia do they get to see your ID too?

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ATS!

Here´s another reason why police image has deteriorated so:
Those amateur videos.
Let´s see...How many amateur videos are we able or interested of watching of cops doing good deeds. Doing their work proffesionally, helping the citizen, avoiding crime???
I´m sure there are Utube videos of these things, but probably for each of those we have several other videos showing what appears to be police abuse, brutality or corruption.
Why?
Simply because that will draw a lot more interest from people. But it obviously doesn´t reflect the proportion of good vs bad cops.
However it does influence the image of cops that people have in general.

Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The PROBLEM .. is when an officer DOES do something wrong NOTHING is ever done about it.. for instance here in Portland a cop recently shot an unarmed man, in killing him .. no discipline on the cop, he was back on the force in a few days terrorizing another part of town. The Cities show no shame when it comes to their officers excessively tasing, beating, roughing up, shooting, killing, maiming, or what have you.

I will tell you what I told another poster. Do your research on the statement you just made. You are claiming that NOTHING is ever done. Well, nothing may not have been done in the case you are referring to but if you take the time to do the research you will see thousands of cases of officer disciplines throughout EVERY single year. Many firings and on and on.

Are their bad cops? Yes. But they don't always get away with their illegal actions. In many cases they just don't.

I'm here in Portland too. I am going to give you a list of stories that have happened in the area in the past six months(except James Chasse). No charges and/or suspensions have been meted out. IMHO, all cases except the police harassment case, the police used extremely egregious force under the circumstances - and ALL were unarmed.


Grand jury: Salem officer who shot man in leg was justified in using deadly force

Girl shot with beanbag gets probation for hitting Portland police officer

This article fails to mention but is mentioned in other articles that the PO started the confrontation by pulling her hair and by telling her to "shut the # up". She's 12 mind you. Also, cop who shot her with beanbag was also involved in this case:

James Chasse


Portland Community College student files tort claim over police stop

Clackamas man exercises free speech rights by giving cops the finger

Eugene police release Taser video of cop using stun gun on Chinese exchange student


The Aaron Campbell shooting: One loose cannon cop is all it takes


If you actually took the time to read through these cases, I hope it's opened your eyes to the previous ignorance that you've shown in this thread.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Pontius]

See what were dealing with here is the op cant talk like a normal person because like a priest they are always in uniform regardless to whether there in jeans an a t- shirt!

reply to post by yeahright

I asked YOU because YOU made the assertion. I was just curious if you had anything to back it up. Now I know. Thanks for participating.

Yes Yearight,

I made an assertion that people applying for employment as police officers are screened so as to only employ thugs that will follow the Law with out moral questioning of any kind, people who will follow orders with out question.

That is my assertion, based on the fact that this is the current environment in which the civilian population has to live under.

You have some of the most sick minded criminals in the United States. Some of the most hideous crimes are committed. People selling crack coc aine to children, people kidnapping children with the intent of raping them and discarding their little tiny bodies like a used condom after, people who rape the elderly and stab them repeatedly for the fun of it, people who will take your life for the possibility of the five bucks in your pocket.

And where are the police? On the highway checking for a possible quick infraction. Watching people get into their cars at the bar, following them till their front tier slightly touches the roads white line so they can pull them over and make them repeat a sobriety test until they fail, making sure no one is braking the heinous law of parking in a handicap zone or red zone.

I was a cab driver for 5 years, the most dangerous job in America, and I have watched cops waiting for the chance to give a ticket while totally ignoring thugs sell crack on the street. I have seen them do absolutely nothing but rake in the cash for the state while women have been getting raped in the middle of the street.

When is the last time a cop has stopped a crime with out dispatch having to send them there? When is the last time a cop has patrolled the dangerous streets of Chicago where buildings are boarded up and thugs run ramped?

When has the FBI done anything but make sure heterosexual men don't have sex with prostitutes? When is the last time the FBI has lifted a finger against organized crime instead of there usual high profile cases like MICHAEL JACKSON!!!

All the FBI does now is sit in their offices looking for child pornography. All day long they sit and search and search for porn on the net while organized crime is ramped in our government, our banks.

The truth is crime is so bad in the US that all of Law enforcement is scared crapless of doing anything against organized crime or criminals. All they want to do now is receive their check at the end of the week. And to receive that check they need to meet their quota.

It's just like you Yeahright and all the rest of the moderators on this site. You guys are moderators because you too have been screened and selected because this site knows you and the rest will do as your told. Or is it just a coincidence that there has not been one single voice of descent from the moderators on this site? Why are you singling me out and somehow implying that because I don't have documented proof for what I say it must be a lie?

All you have to do to know Yeahright is look out your window.....it's one thing to fear and get angry at criminals, but when people start having to fear the police as much as the criminals something is wrong.

AND IT AINT ME BUB!

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Izarith]

What is so *Snip* hard about comprehending a paradigm shift?

The reason you won't see more videos of cops doing their job is because they are lawfully doing their job. They shouldn't be praised for being decent human beings following their oath and doing their duties. End of story on that.

When it becomes exceptional, more than the job requires then you will and DO see videos of it.

The reason you see "so many 'amatuer' videos" is because of the undeniable corruption. People have a reason to film cops breaking the law EVERY OPPORTUNITY THEY GET.

And I for one hope this ratio never changes when present. Illegal acts should always overshadow "doing your job" videos.

Yeah I said it. You were doing your job, you don't deserve praise. Does the McDonalds guy get a ^5 for not putting pickles on my hamburger when I ask? Does he deserve a video to? Your job doesn't require much intelligence. Sorry to be blunt. It requires strength of character. Which anymore, almost all of you lack.

Now. About not all police being bad.

Let's generalize numbers I'm about to pull from my rectum to make a simplified point.

In the early 1900's. Let's say 10% of cops were corrupt, %10 could never do no wrong, and %80 were there trying to do the best they could in the situation.

In the early 2000's. Let's say %80 of cops are corrupt, %10 could still do no wrong, and %10 try to do the best they can to stay clear of corruption but not battle it.

That is the paradigm shift we live in. Decent cops are the extreme minority now.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3/7/2010 by semperfortis]

The following example is an incident that I wiitnessed and it summed up all that is wrong with policing.

- I was in Istambul on holiday, taking some photos. Nearby was a Police Officer. Suddenly a man rushed up to him. I asked a friend nearby and he explained what was happening.

The man told the Police Officer that he had just been held up at gunpoint and that someone had taken hios wallet and was running away down the street, struggling through the corwd. He asked the cop to run after him and the Police Officer looked ashen faced at the prospect. After a moment of thought, the Polcie Officer turned to the man and asked where was his ID Card. The man replied that his ID Card was in the wallet that had been stolen, so the Police Officer, with a relieved look on his face, told the man, you're under arrest for not having your ID Card. The man was shocked and said, but aren't you going to run after the armed robber. The Policeman laughed in his face. Of course not he said, I'm already in the process of making an arrest,namely you, so I can't. He then called for back up and the man was taken away in a Police van.

- Controlling those that you can instead of those that you should is the herald of an empire about to collapse.
- Making ever more things illegal has had the effect of allowing the Police to enforce trivia instead of the important crimes of rape, murder, theft and burgulary and extrending criminality to some forms of late taxes has turned them more into a tax collector at times.
- The extra bulletproofing armour and the Police cars divide the Police from the people that they are supposed to be Policing. It creates the "taking of sides" and alienates both. Police pounding the beat massively improves the situation.
- Psychologists have noted that there are four mental states that come with excessive powers and alienation which were clearly demonstrated in the case of the Enron board for instance. These were prevalent amongst the guards of the SS. Changes in the world and in laws are driving these mental states, these four fallacies into the minds of law enforcement officers. It takes a powerfand focused mind to resist a drift into these four fallacies:-
a. Entitlement - An excellent example is Tiger Woods who admits that he felt entitled to cheat on his wife. I have come across cops who expect one to be grovelling to them which I am not. They will often feel that they are somehow "better" than me.
b. Loss of empathy - Regarding that those who they police are worthless and expendible. SS guards would happily joke about their wives and families as they gassed Jews a few feet away.
c. Omnipotence - They believe that they can sort out any ill like some sort of superman and will involve themselves in civil matters.
d. Invulnerability - They believe that they cannot be touched and feel no longer bound by social norms nor by the laws that they enforce.

reply to post by 3DPrisoner

You are absolutely right about the difference between Mexican Cops and American Cops.

Well thanks for the post 3D,

But I do have to remind people that you can't get away with everything in Mexico. Well maybe you can but take my word for it if you hurt someone in Mexico dues to recklessness and brake the Law you better have a Swiss bank account with a crap load of money in it or you are royally screwed.

Mexican cops will let the small stuff slide, but that does not mean you can't go to jail.

Also it's very important to show your respect to the police officer, you can debate and argue with them but be very respectful in how you do it.

Also a little tip, they usually toss out a large price just to see if you will bite. But if you think with common sense they can't ask for more than what the ticket is worth lol. These guys are not Robots but they are not angels either. A 20 spot would have been fine.

But remember Mexico does have prisons and they do put people in them for a very long time. Use your head and don't do stupid things.

I'm mostly referring to normal citations, not braking serious Laws.

[edit on 3/7/10 by scooterstrats]

reply to post by ripcontrol


Ripcontrol,

First of all, allow me to apologize for losing track of your posts and valid questions in the midst of the flurry that ensued in this thread. You posed legitimate responses in rational form and I thank you for that. You clearly deserve my attention and seem to be someone that might hear what I say and apply a rational, critical evaluation of my stance. You have my full attention. I will now address your posts completely and as thoroughly as I can.

I have never claimed to be FBI. I have danced around that a few times because I didn’t want it to distract from the overall point of my post, which I will touch on again in summary. Now I feel that I can address it a little more directly; I am NOT FBI. I hope this doesn’t disappoint. Please keep in mind that there are hundreds of federal law enforcement agencies. I hope you can understand my hesitation to give out too much personal information in regards to being completely specific in my professional credentials. If that is a point of contention, I apologize.

The cases you point out; I have readily acknowledged that scandal has been a reality in numerous instances across the entire spectrum of law enforcement. I won’t argue with that.

Your four specific questions:
1. Why should the members here trust me?
How can I really answer that… All I can offer to you is that I am attempting to be as honest and forthcoming as I can be and offer my true personal opinion about these issues without doing so as a mouthpiece for the larger agency as a whole. Before I took on this job, I was just a normal person like anybody else on this thread. And I would like to think that that doesn’t change when you take the oath and put on the badge. I am still the same person I have always been, I member of the same society as everyone here. I am trying to speak to you all on that level to prove that we are human just like anybody else, prone to respond out personal beliefs and opinions and draw on our total life experiences.

2. The worst case I ever investigated.
Without getting into specifics, I have dealt with numerous investigations involving the trafficking of humans and related smuggling operations. I think we all understand the reality of the high toll this takes on human life.

3. What was college like for me?
I have a BS in Sociology and my minor is in Criminal Justice. I initially went to college to pursue a career in journalism but a sociology class my sophomore year changed my mind. From there I had picked out a career path that I thought was going to lead me into a career with the Highway Patrol in the state I grew up in. During the course of my college career I determined that I would get more satisfaction out of a federal career that would involve more complex investigations and net the bigger fish higher up the chain, more satisfying that writing tickets and cleaning up after accident scenes. I was a member and officer of the Phi Sigma Pi national honor fraternity and graduated cum laude. Granted, it wasn’t a prestigious Ivy League school, but it was from the second largest university in my state. I still maintain contact with the sociology department head from the university. My senior thesis addressed the sociological circumstances that can lead people to seek out affiliation with gangs and was well received.

4. How do I treat corrupt LEO’s personally?
To put it bluntly; they are dead to me. I have no use for them and any relationship I may have had with them before their deeds were brought to light are meaningless since, to me, they were experiences that came under false pretenses. I personally feel that corruption is one of the single largest detractors from our profession since it can undo any trust we may have been fortunate enough to earn from the public. It makes my job harder. If I can’t do my job, then I am not serving the public. Corruption within in the ranks is a failure on our part.


To address your final quote, which I think is a great metaphor for professionals in any career, I can only say this: While I don’t try to claim that I am perfect and that I have never made a mistake or a bad decision, I like to think that I use my own principals to dictate the actions I take in my life. As I have mentioned before, I have participated in investigations of my peers and subordinates that have led to their termination and threat of incarceration. I have been promoted, yes, and I have had good assignments. I did not, however, achieve these things by being an as*kisser or covering for superiors. I have always relied on the strength of my work to represent myself. I take pride in my accomplishments, not for the rewards that go along with them, but for the personal satisfaction of achieving things on my own that others couldn’t.

My only goal out of all of this is to allow those of us on this forum who are from the law enforcement community the chance to contribute our opinions without the thread becoming bogged down in hateful rants that derail the entire topic. There will always be those that hold onto their distrust or dislike for law enforcement, but I don’t think that should keep those LEO’s from being able to contribute their opinions on subject matter on these forums.

Again, I apologize for not responding to you sooner. You made excellent points and did so fairly and without undue prejudice. No matter what it is, I will respect your opinion.

4. How do I treat corrupt LEO’s personally?
To put it bluntly; they are dead to me. I have no use for them and any relationship I may have had with them before their deeds were brought to light are meaningless since, to me, they were experiences that came under false pretenses. I personally feel that corruption is one of the single largest detractors from our profession since it can undo any trust we may have been fortunate enough to earn from the public. It makes my job harder. If I can’t do my job, then I am not serving the public. Corruption within in the ranks is a failure on our part.


Why dont you form an encounter group an make certain people attend, speak about your experience on ATS an remind your fellow officers of the original meaning of the oath! because it seems to me there's alot needs reminding! we the people pay your wages not the Government or the multinationals! so cop's need to show more respect to your employers

reply to post by JWH44


Here is a video that every police officer in the US should watch, and listen carefully to.
Robert is a Canadian, but listen to him explain about the two oaths cops take.



I don't know how many cops I have seen breaking their oath to the Constitution. Be a Peace Officer, not a Law Enforcer, for there no law about the Constitution, and statues are rules of the Corporation. (UNITED STATES) So officer, follow your Oath, and no problem from me. Break it, you have a lot of problems.

Spousal Abuse amongst Law Enforcement Families

------------- What about Spousal abuse statistics ? -----------------

What we have here is the result of a system without any checks and balances whatsoever. And the system has now gotten way out of hand here in Amerika.

No one has mentioned this after searching through pages of replies to the OP.

* Domestic violence is 2 to 4 times more common in police families than in the general population. In two separate studies, 40% of police officers self-report that they have used violence against their domestic partners within the last year. In the general population, it's estimated that domestic violence occurs in about 10% of families.

* In a nationwide survey of 123 police departments, 45% had no specific policy for dealing with officer-involved domestic violence.

* In that same survey, the most common discipline imposed for a sustained allegation of domestic violence was counseling. Only 19% of departments indicated that officers would be terminated after a second sustained allegation of domestic violence.

* In San Diego, a national model in domestic violence prosecution, the City Attorney typically prosecutes 92% of referred domestic violence cases, but only 42% of cases where the batterer is a cop.

www.purpleberets.org...