The Boys From Brazil: Nazis in South America

Originally posted by Regenstorm

You know what it is with those conspiracy writers, you don't have to believe what they say, you got to check their sources.
Haarmann refers to this book.
Many German U-Boot sites refer to this very credible book, just google it.

That book is from 1959. It's 50 years later now, all but 19 have been located and accounted for. It was accurate in 1959, not so today.

See this post for a complete list of missing german uboats:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


An opposite list with a credible source and background information would make your claim more believable.
select.nytimes.com...

reply to post by Regenstorm


Well maybe someday I'll make a thread about that. The list is compiled from the most recent scholarship available on the subject as of (2009); if you need a complete list with references to the documents in the archives then send me a u2u, but you will have to wait a bit for that. I compiled the list while working for a research project; until that is finished and published I won't be able to publish the list including all sources, since I wasn't involved in the document sighting part of the project.

I've had a discussion lately about the subject where someone told me that the list I linked to could also be collected from secondary literature, but I won't bore you with a long list of books since you seem reasonably versed in the subject. you've read the book of the east german specialist for nazi-uboats though? the name escapes me but I used his list as a basis and then struck out all boats that have been found since then (up to 2009) . So for all I know this is the most reasonable list that one can compile at the time.

More isn't really needed to make the case against large scale ops by the nazis post 45 - again if the claim is simply that some (including important) nazis escaped to south america using uboats I have no problem with it. I simply wanted to refute the claim that hundreds of uboats are still missing; that is a statement that was reasonable in 1950, today not so much anymore.


I was a bit stressed posting this u2u me for any further questions.

Could there be a connection to Henry Ford's attempt to settle the amazon with this experiment?

After all Henry Ford and Hitler were very cozy. If nothing else, then Fordlandia must have inspired this attempt.

Anyways, no one has ever successfully settled the amazon, and they're fools for trying.

Originally posted by scwizard
Could there be a connection to Henry Ford's attempt to settle the amazon with this experiment?

That's an interesting idea. But the Nazis did never manage to follow up on the plans that the expeditioners laid out; although there was some enthusiasm for the plans of the nazis for south america they simply lacked the people, the resources and the funds. The reasoning behind Fordlandia was to vertically integrate all production stages of Ford products, but who knows, maybe ol' Henry was hoping that Fordlandia was going to have a neighbourly relationship with Nazi colonies. Although in the end it was Mercedes Benz Argentinia that ended up harboring most of the Nazi refugees post 1945.

Anyways, no one has ever successfully settled the amazon, and they're fools for trying.

Recent scholarhsip begs to differ. Once we consider Holmberg's mistake the conclusion seems to be that it is possible to settle the Amazon, it just takes the kind of agricultural knowledge and sophistication that we couldn't dream up until we actually recovered it archeologically.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

I don't think Hitler did a whole lot after the war...but i believe he survived it.

Well, if he did survive it, he certainly isn't alive now.
Good thread tho. Will post again when I get to the end of it.

Cheers

Originally posted by Regenstorm
Maybe my first response was a little hasty. After reading it again I want to add some perspective. I think many people forget in what kind of era these things happened.

Racism was common in those days.
Due to the revolution in science and technology in that era, it was very logical that there was also a lot of research conducted concerning races and cultures. If the Germans didn't do it, someone else would have eventually.

[

Schluss Schluss.Lol
Thanks for the perspective even tho you may be naturally cryptic. Research ok. But human experimentation? I dont condone that.

Indeed Germany was also looking for "Lebensraum" (Life-Space), this because Germany was very dense populated and they had scarce resources.
Remember, after WW1 Germany lost a lot of territory and all their Colonies.

Lebensraum, yes that could be possible reason.

That's one of the reasons why Germany undertook many expeditions to all parts of the world. Another reason was the gathering of ancient knowledge. Germany wasn't just interested in science and technology, esoterica and mythology were also a big point of interest. My guess is that they stumbled upon astonishing knowledge including antigravity technology from India (The concept of VRIL and Vimana).

Vril and Vimana, yes these texts talk about a mercury ion engine.

Creating an "Übermensch" was an idea the Nazis really had, but how to be interpreted?

"Übermensch" = Superhuman

So what's really going on?

Where did all the Nazis go?
South America was a temporary hide out, just like Neu Schwabenland (New Swabia) on Antarctica.
The steady rumor is that they either fled into space or through the supposed interdimensional gateway at the South Pole.

Considering operation high jump, this could may well be.

Nazi, Reich, National Socialism and Hitler are stigmatized words, don't get fooled by that in your judgment.

This will be difficult for many to understand.

Cheers

Cant find much info on the image in the OP oh "Joseph" Greiner but the wiki page on Josef Greiner is sparse but seems to contradict the notion he was close or even a member of the Nazi party.

Could it be a hoax?

Where is the site now?

Why would someone make this hoax?

Wouldn't his name be spelled "Josef" on the cross?

I can't read the writing but the years dont seem to be right either.

reply to post by Malcher

Originally posted by Malcher
Cant find much info on the image in the OP oh "Joseph" Greiner but the wiki page on Josef Greiner is sparse but seems to contradict the notion he was close or even a member of the Nazi party.

Could it be a hoax?

They are two separate Joseph Greiners.

And definitely not a hoax.

Originally posted by Malcher
Where is the site now?

Where it was then - an island on a tributary of the River Jary in Brazil.

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Malcher

 

Originally posted by Malcher
Cant find much info on the image in the OP oh "Joseph" Greiner but the wiki page on Josef Greiner is sparse but seems to contradict the notion he was close or even a member of the Nazi party.

Could it be a hoax?

They are two separate Joseph Greiners.

And definitely not a hoax.

Originally posted by Malcher
Where is the site now?

Where it was then - an island on a tributary of the River Jary in Brazil.

It seems less believable now. Edit: Not on your part, just seems staged.

"“The 1978 film Boys From Brazil told a of a bizarre plot to clone Hitler that was hatched by Joseph Mengele in his jungle hideout.”

Hitler lived until the 70's as did Mengele who died of a stroke while out slimming.

He died of Twin Stroke.

Get it?

That is not a joke.

That's Poetic Justice.

Love this! so true. I have a few friends from South America- argentina, gaute, who's parents/grandparents crossed over from Germany towards the end of WWII. for the most part i think its coincidence, but one guy- lets call him Jose Von [blank] is the most anti-Semitic German POS i've ever met. he wont admit that his family were nazis but he definitely likes to joke about it!

The real question is does anybody know the precise location of Joseph Greiner's grave? Which island on which tributary?

By the way, the Josef Greiner on wikipedia was alive after 1936. He wrote a book about Hitler in 1947. They are not the same person.

Nazis in South America?

it has always been a Sumerian-Nazi conspiracy. Would you believe me if I was to tell you vp Biden is in the brotherhood and the elite Nazis from WW2 are still very much alive and well today in the US strategically placed in positions of power? Some are even hidden behind Judaism...Wow!!!!!. What a concept...never would think to look there now would ya?.

Super smart but can be very very reckless at times






ooooh cool...LOOK. Theres a building numbered 322 in that swastika. Nahhhhhh,,,,it couldnt be.

reply to post by Malcher

Originally posted by Malcher
It seems less believable now. Edit: Not on your part, just seems staged.

In what way less believable?

I don't understand your reasoning.

reply to post by allenidaho


If you want to find out where exactly I would advise you to buy the book - Das Guayana-Projekt.

LiveForever what an excellent post.S+F for you.

You and other posters have covered a lot,but i would like to contribute to the thread with this article.

"The World was Lied to about Hitler's Death"

As the Third Reich collapsed in the spring of 1945, the Russians were the first to enter Berlin and capture Adolf Hitler's bunker. Then, the Soviet Union made a series of contradictory statements or lies concerning Hitler's death. Stalin announced to Truman during lunch in Potsdam on July 17, that Hitler did not commit suicide but had probably escaped. After that, the Russians released photographs of what they claimed to be Hitler's corpse on a dingy floor.

Finally, they asserted that Hitler's burnt remains, together with the body of his mistress Eva Braun, were discovered on May 4, by Soviet soldiers outside the Berlin Chancellery bunker, in the garden.

After 50 years, Russian officials said the photos of Hitler's corpse were part of authentic military film footage from the Moscow Central Archive. But the glasnost photos created more problems than they solved. The main question is: whose body is really in the pictures - was it Adolf Hitler or his double? If it actually was Hitler, then the photos (or film footage) must have been taken by someone inside the bunker before Hitler's corpse was burned with gasoline in the Chancellery garden. It is assumed that Red Army soldiers took the photos just after they captured Berlin.

www.blackraiser.com...

In a few words the article claims that :
a)the photo of Hitler's dead body was manipulated
b)the body found in the garden was either Hitler's double,Gustav or the SS-Gruppenfuehrer Hermann Fegelein,who was executed a couple of days earlier for treason.

I 've read somewhere that the real Hitler escaped in South America and,if i remember correct he died in the early/middle 70's.He confessed to a priest who he really was,before he died and there was a picture of an old man that looked like him.I'll try to find it.

reply to post by Phantom traveller


I have absolutely no doubt that if Hitler did escape South America would have most definitely been his escape route of choice. Siberia and Antarctica would have been other, less likely, options.

Of course, it would have been easier for everyone if Hitler was dead, especially if he had committed suicide, as it would be seen as the definitive end of the chapter. An end that left Hitler in disgrace.

However, not everyone was convinced. When President Truman asked Joseph Stalin at the Potsdam conference in 1945 whether or not Hitler was dead, Stalin replied bluntly, 'No'.

And, as has been discussed in this very thread, it seems that a number of U-Boats went missing in 1945, enough to transport a hell of a lot of people and resources.

I personally believe he died in Germany. But as the saying goes, "pics or it didn't happen." And I am yet to see any evidence to prove his death conclusively.

Please do post any ideas/evidence you may find, I'll be interested to look at it

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Malcher

 

Originally posted by Malcher
It seems less believable now. Edit: Not on your part, just seems staged.

In what way less believable?

I don't understand your reasoning.

First, I made it very clear I was referring to the one image alone.

My reasoning should be obvious. If it aint on google...

Actually there is one person with the same name only he spelled his first name differently. So you say "it is a different person". That is reasonable, only in this particular instance too coincidental since you can find a "Josef Geiner" who was alive at the time but was actually critical of the Nazi Party.

Aside from the fact you are not offering any proof except for an old photo of a piece of wood and some writing...and you believe it just like that? *bangs head*

reply to post by Malcher

Originally posted by Malcher
My reasoning should be obvious. If it aint on google...

So you don't place much trust in hardback books, official documents, witness testimony and photographic evidence?

And yet at the same time Google seems to be the pinnacle of proof, as far as you're concerned?

How queer.

Originally posted by Malcher
Actually there is one person with the same name only he spelled his first name differently. So you say "it is a different person". That is reasonable, only in this particular instance too coincidental since you can find a "Josef Geiner" who was alive at the time but was actually critical of the Nazi Party.

What ridiculous reasoning.

So because one individual with the name Josef Greiner existed in that time period the possibility of another individual existing, this one spelt Joseph Greiner, is impossible? I wonder how many John Smith's or Elizabeth Browns existed back then? By your reasoning, surely no more than one.

Originally posted by Malcher
Aside from the fact you are not offering any proof except for an old photo of a piece of wood and some writing...and you believe it just like that? *bangs head*

But I do not believe just that. I believe the locals who tell of it's history. I believe the official documents from Germany. I believe the documents from the Brazilian State Department and the National Museum in Rio de Janeiro, which detail Greiner’s jungle mission. There is plenty of evidence of this adventure. It is documented history.