At what point does taxation become organized theft?

reply to post by Ahabstar


I would like to see the IRS disappear and it be replaced with nothing. The Fair Tax is a terrible idea and the IRS needs to go.

Regardless of your feelings on taxation and government spending, the lion's share of federal money is simply filtered through the federal government but actually instituted at the State level.

That being said, the federal government does not actually need to collect taxes from the population directly to fund it's endeavors and the State is easier to change/challenge legally.

This really isn't terribly relevant to the conversation but wanted to respond anyway.

Is equal: - Roads - Police - Fire/Rescue - Libraries - Primary Education - Local/State/National Parks - Defense

Where on earth did you get that primary education is distributed equally? What if I choose not to procreate, or at least not to your prodigious level? Or, what if I'm a responsible parent and send my children to a real (read: private) school rather than a welfare school (read: public school)? I have slightly less than zero interest in paying for glorified babysitting services for your brat kids. I vote against every single school levy put on the ballot and I would just as soon the state got entirely out of the education business.

As for parks and libraries, those could easily - and more efficiently - be organized by mutual benefit cooperatives rather than the government.

Fire departments originated as privately owned entities organized by insurance companies. In urban areas at least that concept should still be tenable (less likely in rural areas, of course, where volunteers still provide a necessary supplement to professional fire services).



[edit on 1-3-2010 by zenser]

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


Nonsense.

Total nonsense.

So you think god's law should be the law of the land?

Let's bring back stoning as well.

There's no law about taxes being crime, in fact taxes were higher under Reagan.

So maybe we should stone his corpse? Actually, the Bible likes to punish the families of sinners.. so maybe we can track down Nancy and stone her (She also believes in astrology... even more reason).

reply to post by zenser


The fact that you think public school is fake shows how out of touch you are.

And you're also a snob.

You know who went to a fake school? Ronald Reagen.

What a idiot he was.

Originally posted by The Protector
I think that the United States Government is already beyond that line, in fact I saw a sign that Congressman Ron Paul had on his desk that said "Don't steal! The Government Doesn't Like Competition".

Ironic for a guy who makes his living sucking tax dollars up like a sponge.

My opinion is, if my tax money or otherwise is being given to anyone for a particular purpose and it is then not used for that purpose, I regard that as theft. Kind of like if your a father and you give your daughter several thousand dollars to put toward her college fund and she uses it to buy a car, that is technically theft in my book. Why?

because you're not capable of realizing that once money changes hands, its new owner is free to do whatever they wish with it? if you want to say your daughter stole from you, you're going to have to provide legal documentation and a contract with her, to demonstrate that hte money was not a gift, but was instead an investment.

Because the money I give is labeled in my mind for a certain purpose, if my money doesn't go toward that purpose then you no longer have my consent to use it. We say "You have to pay taxes", but do we not look around to see what our tax dollars end up as? When taxes keep getting higher and higher, yet economy keeps getting worse and worse, I would have to believe that the government is not using my tax dollars efficiently and therefore has no right to them.

The Protector

I love people who complain about taxes. They insist taxes are getting higher and higher, even after tax cut after tax cut after tac cut after tax rebate after tax cut. And then they look around and ask "Why are our education is bads!?!"

reply to post by seethelight


One can only assume by your thuggish style of composition, unique use of basic grammar and tortuous reaction to the idea of ending the era of the welfare school that you, yourself, are the product of a welfare school.

C'est la vie.

The United States does not have a deficit of college graduates. The United States has a deficit of factory workers and fruit pickers. Funding the welfare schools is the most monumental waste and perversion of tax dollars currently occurring.


[edit on 1-3-2010 by zenser]

Originally posted by zenser
Is equal: - Roads - Police - Fire/Rescue - Libraries - Primary Education - Local/State/National Parks - Defense

Where on earth did you get that primary education is distributed equally? What if I choose not to procreate, or at least not to your prodigious level? Or, what if I'm a responsible parent and send my children to a real (read: private) school rather than a welfare school (read: public school)? I have slightly less than zero interest in paying for glorified babysitting services for your brat kids. I vote against every single school levy put on the ballot and I would just as soon the state got entirely out of the education business.

You know, prior to public schools, your kids would have ended up as uneducated nothings shoveling hog crap out of a pen. I mean your kids specifically, the little snots you're sending to private education. This is because without public schools, you would not be able to afford your private school. Prior to public school, education was something for the ludicrously wealthy of the time. In modern money, you would need at least seven zeroes on your bank balance to afford education as it was then.

Thanks to public schooling providing competition at a vastly lower cost, with a largely identical product, you can afford to waste your money sending your kids to a private school. Where they will get the same education as in public school, except when it comes to NOT being elitist twats.

As for parks and libraries, those could easily - and more efficiently - be organized by mutual benefit cooperatives rather than the government.

A rose by any other name...

Fire departments originated as privately owned entities organized by insurance companies. In urban areas at least that concept should still be tenable (less likely in rural areas, of course, where volunteers still provide a necessary supplement to professional fire services).
[edit on 1-3-2010 by zenser]

Yes. This is called a protection racket.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

Thanks to public schooling providing competition at a vastly lower cost, with a largely identical product, you can afford to waste your money sending your kids to a private school. Where they will get the same education as in public school ...

While I didn't have time to read your entire rambling missive, I'll just note that the above is so hysterical as to be almost surreal.

reply to post by zenser


Me, Ronald Reagen, Ron Paul, etc. etc.

Some awesome people that didn't go to fake schools:

George W Bush, Prince Charles, The Rockefellers.


Let's see I guess you're one of those folks that thinks people like the Rockefellers and the Ws of the world SHOULD be in charge. While the Reagans and the Ron Pauls should be left out of the process, cause of their fake education.

Yeah, elites ruling the world... sounds like a great idea. In fact, why not just claim that ONLY the rich should be allowed to vote?

reply to post by seethelight


The fact that you actually pounded this out probably doesn't help cast the welfare schools in a positive light. You may want to go back and ask your welfare teachers why they didn't do a better job teaching you the rule of cum hoc ergo propter hoc in logic.

Best of luck in all your future endeavors,
Z

I'd say that level has already been passed, no?!

reply to post by zenser


Didn't pound it out.

And daddy didn't send me to private school.



Cogito Egro Sum or if you prefer Je pense donc, Je suis.

Plus:

Watashi wa nihongo wo gozaimasu.

How's your Japanese?

My fake schools offered Japanese, Latin, French German and Russian.

We had higher test schools than the local "real" schools.

My physics teacher helped design the original super-conducting super-collider in Texas.

In the fifth grade my science fair project was on yttrium barium copper oxide, an early superconductor.

One of my best friends in High School became one of the youngest tenured mathematics professors in the history of the US.

Another helped invent bit torrent.

Another did ground breading research on getting alzheimers drugs through the blood/brain barrier... in high school.

Another is a noted Religion/Philosophy professor...who went to fake schools, studied hard and got full scholarships to Oxford and Harvard Divinity School and Tulane.

The trick is, what studies actually show is that while some schools are better than others, what REALLY matters most is parent's interaction with their kids. All of those successes had loving families.. All of them worked hard and all of them went to public school. And those are just people I know personally.





[edit on 1-3-2010 by seethelight]

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by zenser

 

Didn't pound it out.

And daddy didn't send me to private school.



Cogito Egro Sum or if you prefer Je pense donc, Je suis.

Plus:

Watashi wa nihongo wo gozaimasu.

How's your Japanese?

My fake schools offered Japanese, Latin, French German and Russian.

We had higher test schools than the local "real" schools.

My physics teacher helped design the original super-conducting super-collider in Texas.

In the fifth grade my science fair project was on yttrium barium copper oxide, an early superconductor.

One of my best friends in High School became one of the youngest tenured mathematics professors in the history of the US.

Another helped invent bit torrent.

Another did ground breading research on getting alzheimers drugs through the blood/brain barrier... in high school.

Another is a noted Religion/Philosophy professor...who went to fake schools, studied hard and got full scholarships to Oxford and Harvard Divinity School and Tulane.

The trick is, what studies actually show is that while some schools are better than others, what REALLY matters most is parent's interaction with their kids. All of those successes had loving families.. All of them worked hard and all of them went to public school. And those are just people I know personally.





[edit on 1-3-2010 by seethelight]

Done pounding your chest?

(the theatrics of offended animals / *sigh*)

reply to post by zenser


Done not having any facts to back up your assertions?

Done pretending snobbery = a good education?

Good luck with your future baseless slander.

reply to post by seethelight


Just remember, and remember well, all of your supposed "accomplishments" which - much to my bemusement - you so breathlessly listed, I paid for ... you paid for none of mine.

Historically, oppressive taxation which also included involuntry seizures (aka Theft) was the cause for Robin Hood & the band of merry men...

they poached the Sherwood Forest, robbed the tax collectors whever
they traveled...and caused havoc for the Sheriff of Nottingham

which only increased the tempo of the tax collectors & the impounding of goods in lieu of tax monies. No one benefits from stealing

reply to post by seethelight


Do you even KNOW what God's Law is?

Another name for it is Natural Law. That is where the Common Law is derived from and is the base for the Constitution!

I guess we see where you stand on that.

In your mind the government gives you rights. Pfffft.

Taxes are an inevitable part of being in a civilized society. But many taxes either don't produce anything worthwhile in their use or are simply get rich schemes by government. I really don't have a list as to what should be taxed and not. But for some quick basics im happy to pay for societies roads,healthcare,school,military( not insane levels though), emergency services etc I don't mind paying taxes that help society/people as a whole basically.

reply to post by endisnighe




No. No, I'm afraid that Common Law is based on early Saxon tribal law. Which has its roots on the European mainland and, I assure you, hqas nothing at all to do with "God".

Unless perhaps you worship Wotan.

reply to post by zenser


Yes, I notice those who have had a messy divorce from reality tend to not be able to relate to it any more.

Privatize all schools. Watch their cost shoot way, way, way up.

Watch your kids be, as you say, "fruit pickers."