Socialism is destroying Greece, Spain, Italy, Venezuela and America, to name a few

reply to post by Tiger5


Actually the American Communist Party has just pretty much disguised itself into Zionism.
And it is way bigger than most think.
It is not elected (the big problem) but appointed by the elected. (mostly democrats)
Just have a good look at the Clinton and Obama cabinet.
These are the roots of the socialistic trend. It is behind the scenes and without accountability.
The destruction of the social and economic fabric of Christian and Muslim countries across world is their agenda.
Ask the UK, South Africa, Australia, Germany and other European countries. People are starting to get it.

Draining you of your resources, is how Communists get control. Or starting revolts like in Russia.
They have stolen the American auto industry, taken all the bail out money and banked it off shore and gave it to their executives in un- earned and un -warranted pay and bonuses. There was no vote here. No democracy.

reply to post by rogerstigers


Indeed, history shows us that the societies which function best reward individual competence, but have some other primary motivation that purely personal wealth. Thus where Communism represents one extreme of error, Capitalism is its opposite, and something more moderate is needed. If this moderate standard retains some of the promotion of more competent individuals over others, including material reward, it will bring us the same better standard of life.

In understanding the effects of different economic systems, we must consider two types of "standard of living": first, individual material prosperity, health and happiness; second, those things which impact all individuals, whether as public policy or as a byproduct of social action, what is called "socialized cost" because it is absorbed by the population as a whole. If the individual has a higher material standard of living, but exists in a somewhat miserable or conflicted circumstance owing to these secondary effects, it is not sensible to argue that the overall living standard is raised because a greater negative with vaster consequences has been engendered.

We know from the successes of Capitalism that the individual needs to be rewarded for better work, including materially. We know from its failures that this alone does not make a society, and in fact helps society decline from a state of cooperation to a mutually-protected marketplace. The great sadness of capitalism is that it reduces all decisions to the price tag, or "opportunity cost," on any object or action. There is no consideration of the whole. A capitalist society has no valuation for a patch of forest but its real estate and resource value; it has no appreciation for non-paying tasks except as "hobbies"; it has no way to describe well-being outside of material (wealth).

reply to post by Donny 4 million


Intraversion - This term implies not only going within ourselves, commonly called "introversion," but the thought of going "between" which reveals our divided self between inner world and outer world. We are a divided self marked by a suppressed inner world and an overgrown representation of ourselves in the outer world, like an avatar in a strange game made of popularity points. Intraversion takes us into the worst of life, which is a fear of death and unpopularity that paralyzes us from taking action. In this state we become absurdly passive, unwilling to criticize or act against things that are wrong but benefit others, and at the same time disproportionately aggressive in the areas society designates for competition. With our excessive reliance on our external self, we become underconfident, as we never come to know our inner world and find ourselves not at home in our own minds. Even worse, we know we are self-serving and come to loathe ourselves for being so shortsighted.

Ascendancy - In contrast to inward-going philosophies, ascendancy starts from the inner world and believes in the clarification and growth of ourselves as only we know us. An ascendant person thinks, molds themselves into an ideal of their own creation, and derives their self-confidence from that accomplishment and a knowledge of themselves. They have individuality, not individualism, and are less concerned with public perception than actual reality. They know it is easy to convince others that one is competent (pass tests), honest (don't get caught), well-meaning (flatter) and intelligent (memorize facts). They know it is impossible to fool oneself. The goal of an ascendant person is to know himself or herself fully, to discipline that self to the highest standards possible, including ethical and physical and mental, and then to apply the beauty found within to the world without. Where an intraverted person questions whether he or she dares presume to change the world, and talks in terms of rights and obligations, an ascendant person thinks in terms of making things better much as evolution made us better: create ideas, test them, and pick the best and repeat the process on that basis. Ascendant people are confident and moral and lack sneering contempt for anything but bad logic.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Thanks CC. It will take me a while to digest that but I will give it a good reread. I will see if I can apply it to socialism some how. I will admit that I missed psychology 101.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Donny 4 million]

If you want the culprits here in Spain..just look to the ******* who own the construction businesses..in 2008 they built more than 200,000 houses tht nobody ever bought,,at one point they where selling them for 60 or 70 thousand euros, cost price, when on the market they went for 180.000.

The construction business went to the wall and every business associated with it, in a domino effect. Now here, theres 4.000.000, without work.

They´re offering the immigrants all their dole money in advance...but only if they go home.
They give you enough to buy your flight ticket and three months later they send you the rest when your far from here.
The catch is you cant return to work here legally again for three years and you loose all the priveliges that you had before, you start again from nothing.

reply to post by andy1972


Sounds a lot like the sub-prime debacal here in America. It was the bankers and the government here in America and not the construction companies though.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Donny 4 million]

reply to post by Donny 4 million


“Actually the American Communist Party has just pretty much disguised itself into Zionism. “

Err no the abandoment of any kind of communism for a mixed economy that started under glasnost killed the ACP. Effectively killed any shred of the ACP’s political credibility. Along with the Truth of the modern soviet unions authoritarianism and other failings.

Socialists allow private ownership of capital.

At least you seem to think that the recent history of America is a move towards socialism as opposed to the socialist revolution other have been getting hysterics over.


“Draining you of your resources, is how Communists get control.”

Nop the only way is to”starting revolts like in Russia”.

“They have stolen the American auto industry, taken all the bail out money and banked it off shore and gave it to their executives in un- earned and un -warranted pay and bonuses.”

Well that is the nature of capitalism. The shareholders all want the best return on their capital. That is reason why EPS is quoted in most stock market reports. Who would you invest in Company A that gives you 5 cents per share or company B who gives you 1 cent per share? That is the nature of Capitalism. US capitalists are not patriots they merely follow the money!

“There was no vote here. No democracy.” Why should there be democracy in a simple business transaction of selling and buying shares? Too bad is you loose your job say the capitalists we got our profits!!!!

reply to post by Tiger5


Sorry tiger,
I don't see it that way. Freddie, Fanny and AIG were caterer to by the FED and bailed by the FED against popular will. The institutions that were not in their pockets were allowed to fail. WTF Tax payers money.
That is not capitalism but dictatorship and Communism.
The real fact is that the Americans and it sounds like those Spanish folks, were swindled by the officials and their preferred banker buddies Goldman Sucks and the like. Not corporations.
If a financial institution is to big to fail, it is the governments fault it is to big to begin with.
The government in devious ways relaxed every safe guard as to allow that collapse to happen.
You start the revolt by impoverishing the population. That is what is in process. IMO

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Donny 4 million]

You can't make a sweeping statement that Socialism in its purest form is destroying these countries. Socialism in an ideal world is picturesque and effective, no gap between the rich and the poor, no discrimination. Socialism isn't destroying these countries, its the people behind the policy making who are making the wrong choices, maybe for their own benefits or that they believe that they are doing the right thing even though it isn't. The people are destroying the countries, not the idea. By the way, i am believer in capitalist market. Both ways have disadvantages, its just how we deal with them.

I agree with you but the reason I use small bites is that most people on internet sites will not read long monotonous posts and study charts. The world is awash with leftwing ideology because its cool and it is a rebellious attitude towards America mostly. People love to rebel it makes them feel like intellectuals. No charts or mounds of words will change that.

haha brilliant!

Is it Socialism that is destroying or the resistance to it?

Just sayin'

the idiots that drag us into pointless wars and waste billions of tax dollars on bull # are the ones ruining everything. that being said, YOUR MOM IS A SOCIALIST.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Is it Socialism that is destroying or the resistance to it?

Just sayin'

What resistance? Most everyone hates Capitalism and most everyone likes Socialism. America was the last domino to fall for Socialism. The last nail in the coffin. We all now need to make room in our beds for big brother and big sister. Privacy and freedom have been over rated anyway.

Today I converted to communism. I have the glorious ideology of socialism to thank for showing me the way. Without it I never would have had the courage. Now that I'm a communist I'd like to see a few things happen here in America.

1) I cant wait to tell my children that they will never be anything more than what the government needs me to be. No son..greatness is not for you so give that idea up. Deams are for the weak now.

2) I've always been kind of a lazy ass. I so very much like the idea of money being taken from the rich to pay for my needs.

3) I've always liked the idea of people proving their worth to society by what they produce. I'm a total fan of people justifying their existence in front of a committee. those who don't qualify will be euthanized. Only the exceptional here now please.

4) I'd love to see a reduction in the old people driving around town 10 mph below the speed limit. Hopefully our new healthcare plan will take care of that.

5) I cant wait until there are truly no more classes. I have always felt inferior by the cars i drove and the clothes I wore. What gives them the right to have better things that me anyway. What gives anyone the right to own anything for that matter?

6) I need a car and my neighbour has 4..I think I'll just take it because they don't need so much. They just don't need it.

Well thats all I have for now. Besides, I need to go to the store and pick up a 12 pack of corona with my food stamps.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

I can't reveal my country of origin (Is on the South Hemisphere). I was brought to Spain by my father when I was a child. Since my parents were very concerned of my education (Later I discovered my father was a nazi and my mother a fascist) they sent my to a Catholic College. There I saw the hypocrisy and wrongdoings of the "brotherhood" and priests, and being witness to all these perversions, I went Atheist, explored Satanism, and at the age of 17 I was a full fledged Socialist, a "Liberal" as you NorthAmericans say.

Since I saw (and enjoyed) most of the best NorthAmerican films of the 80's and 90's, from War Games to Back to the Future, Predator, Aliens, Batman, Terminator 2, etc... I grew up with a positive vision of NorthAmerica, and it was this influence that led me to set my career path on "Hard Sciences" and Engineering. At the same time, I divorced myself from the "mainstream"ideologies prevalent among the people of my field, who were either socialists or reactionary conservatives, totally absent of solid knowledge in Philosophy, Political Science, Economics, Literature and Humanities (Yes, technical people must be strong also on these if we want a free future society). They were almost like "robots",singing the slogan of their respective parties.
(And they think it is better to work for the State)

But Spain is simply not the place. Here, universities really suck -they are permeated with socialist ideology- and are the particular domains of people who exhibit the worst qualities displayed by human beings: Corruption, Deceit, Backstabbing, Mind Games, Inconsistency, etc.. You are even expected to deal with passive agressive behaviour and narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders on a daily basis, if you are to make your way on this corrupt System. People here laughs at meritocracy.
(And hates NorthAmerica for being successful, for example, in Science and Business)

Spain is the only country in the history of the World that is "Proud to be Dysgenic"


The pernicious doctrines of egalitarianism, catholicism, the reality distortion created by leftist thinking ,moral relativism, and the worst, the thing I believe is the main cause of the economic crisis in Spain is the "sense of entitlement" are undermining the pillars of civilization. People here think the State owes them all, education, healthcare, housing, jobs, everything, and then they can sit their lazy ass in front of # TV and get drunk / coc aine drugged.

The result is: Less jobs, less enterprises, the rule of the monopoly, lack of competitiveness, loss of liberties, regression of civilization.

NORTHAMERICANS: You are people with good character, most of you. This is already happening in your Country. Be aware!!! Fight back with reason and argument, not firearms!!!

Being myself influenced by Ayn Rand's Philosophy, Objectivism, I (and other brilliant people) decided to "abandon" the system and went "underground", because we are aware that we can develop our own industry and enterprises without University help
(Can you hear me, you Intellectual Morons!!! COLLECTIVISTS, WE DONT NEED YOU) so there's no point to follow a corrupt system with the ultimate reward of being totally pissed off, and acting like savages for mere promotion.

For these who still think Capitalism is evil, they should look a the difference between the 2 Koreas, then choose carefully in what country of the two they would prefer to live, The free Korea of Samsung or The Korea of irrationality, poverty and slavery (both physical and mental) Leftists should be consequent with their choices: they must flee the free countries, and go to China or North Korea so they can live happily in their utopian world until the State decides they are no longer useful.














[edit on 21-3-2010 by Ahriman_Tech]

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Ahriman_Tech]

Originally posted by Ahriman_Tech
I can't reveal my country of origin (Is on the South Hemisphere). I was brought to Spain by my father when I was a child. Since my parents were very concerned of my education (Later I discovered my father was a nazi and my mother a fascist) they sent my to a Catholic College. There I saw the hypocrisy and wrongdoings of the "brotherhood" and priests, and being witness to all these perversions, I went Atheist, explored Satanism, and at the age of 17 I was a full fledged Socialist, a "Liberal" as you NorthAmericans say.

Since I saw (and enjoyed) most of the best NorthAmerican films of the 80's and 90's, from War Games to Back to the Future, Predator, Aliens, Batman, Terminator 2, etc... I grew up with a positive vision of NorthAmerica, and it was this influence that led me to set my career path on "Hard Sciences" and Engineering. At the same time, I divorced myself from the "mainstream"ideologies prevalent among the people of my field, who were either socialists or reactionary conservatives, totally absent of solid knowledge in Philosophy, Political Science, Economics, Literature and Humanities (Yes, technical people must be strong also on these if we want a free future society). They were almost like "robots",singing the slogan of their respective parties.
(And they think it is better to work for the State)

But Spain is simply not the place. Here, universities really suck -they are permeated with socialist ideology- and are the particular domains of people who exhibit the worst qualities displayed by human beings: Corruption, Deceit, Backstabbing, Mind Games, Inconsistency, etc.. You are even expected to deal with passive agressive behaviour and narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders on a daily basis, if you are to make your way on this corrupt System. People here laughs at meritocracy.
(And hates NorthAmerica for being successful, for example, in Science and Business)

Spain is the only country in the history of the World that is "Proud to be Dysgenic"


The pernicious doctrines of egalitarianism, catholicism, the reality distortion created by leftist thinking ,moral relativism, and the worst, the thing I believe is the main cause of the economic crisis in Spain is the "sense of entitlement" are undermining the pillars of civilization. People here think the State owes them all, education, healthcare, housing, jobs, everything, and then they can sit their lazy ass in front of # TV and get drunk / coc aine drugged.

The result is: Less jobs, less enterprises, the rule of the monopoly, lack of competitiveness, loss of liberties, regression of civilization.

NORTHAMERICANS: You are people with good character, most of you. This is already happening in your Country. Be aware!!! Fight back with reason and argument, not firearms!!!

Being myself influenced by Ayn Rand's Philosophy, Objectivism, I (and other brilliant people) decided to "abandon" the system and went "underground", because we are aware that we can develop our own industry and enterprises without University help
(Can you hear me, you Intellectual Morons!!! COLLECTIVISTS, WE DONT NEED YOU) so there's no point to follow a corrupt system with the ultimate reward of being totally pissed off, and acting like savages for mere promotion.

For these who still think Capitalism is evil, they should look a the difference between the 2 Koreas, then choose carefully in what country of the two they would prefer to live, The free Korea of Samsung or The Korea of irrationality, poverty and slavery (both physical and mental) Leftists should be consequent with their choices: they must flee the free countries, and go to China or North Korea so they can live happily in their utopian world until the State decides they are no longer useful.

Great testamony there!

Unfortunatly many americans have bitten from the apple of socialism and communism and they think they like it. unfortunitly people have to lose everything before they realize what they had was worth fighting for.

*sigh*

So much gobledeegook I don't know where to begin.

So I've chosen not to.

Those who think outside of a binary-mindframe know how to critically think about things, and those who don't are virtually impossible to reason with.

Corporatism is the problem with the world - not communism. And this is an inevitable product of un-regulated capitalism.

Stalin was not a Communist.

And just because you are losing your "freedom" to facilitate corporate growth - remember it has very little to do with Socialism.

If you want an intelligent conversation I am happy to oblige - if you don't - go back to your CANF newsletter and leave me alone.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
*sigh*

Corporatism is the problem with the world - not communism. And this is an inevitable product of un-regulated capitalism.

*sigh*

Go to any country that has no corporatism and you have poverty, no freedom and plenty of misery like in third world countries.

Stalin was not a Communist.

Stalin was leftwing and hated free enterprize and did not allow people to own anything. That is communism but you can call it what you want.

9 times out of 10 these countries are poor is because they have to get resources from the rest of the world that opporates under a monetary system based on differential advantage.

Cuba has to import 60% of its food - where does it get the money from? Nickel and Cigar exports?! Please! Get a grip on reality. Cuba is a tiny third-world island that is under the most brutal sanctions in the world - yet somehow they provide all their citizens with free and universal world-class health care, free education right through university, they send doctors all around the world, have scholarships for anyone from a third-world country (and the US), everyone gets fed and everyone has a job. They are in poverty because of the sanctions, and because they have no resources - but they have accomplished alot.

Look at any other country with a similar GDP and you will see the difference.

But BigMacs, Bentlys and BigScreen TVs are still a temptation.

Stalin was not "left-wing" he was a fascist who used a bureaucratic dictatorship with socialist rhetoric to enslave the russian people to polarise the world, allow the military industrial complex to take root, collapse itself and install a one-world super power (aka America).

Learn some world history.



ETA:
18 Gains of the Venezuelan Revolution

1. Written a new constitution. Fifty percent of it was written directly by the population. It was put to a referendum and it won the support of 70% of voters. This constitution extended the democratic, social and human rights of the population far beyond the boundaries of a simple parliamentary democracy. The constitution calls for participatory democratic bodies of people to organise and implement new initiatives, such as the ones mentioned here.
   
2. Eradicated illiteracy according to United Nations standards.
   
3. Lowered the infant mortality rate.
   
4. Created 3000 new Bolivarian schools.
   
5. Brought in more than 1.5 million people into the education system free of charge.
   
6. Established a free university system aimed at the poor majority traditionally excluded from tertiary education (the poor receive free textbooks, free transport to university, free meals at university). Students and staff also work together democratically to create the curriculum.
   
7. Built more houses for the poor in two years than in the previous 20 years under the old governments.
   
8. Created access to fresh, clean and safe water for millions of people for the first time in their lives.
   
9. Re-distributed millions of hectares of unused, idle yet arable (agriculturally usable) land to landless poor people.
   
10. Renamed Columbus Day (Christopher Columbus the ‘explorer’) Invasion Day and are rebuilding the nations’ knowledge of real indigenous history and indigenous resistance.
    
11. Opened popular food markets which buy food from food cooperatives, it then gets sold in the popular food markets at 30% below the price of food in the big supermarket chain stores.
    
12. Opened 1000 free kitchens have been opened to provide free meals for people without homes.
    
13. Constructed a massive free healthcare system which now provides free healthcare for the first time in history to poor workers and unemployed people.
    
14. Struggled for and won back control of the gigantic oil industry (off corrupt executives and top management) which is now managed jointly by the government and the oil workers.
    
15. Increased taxes on corporations, and forced them to actually pay their taxes (McDonalds and Coca Cola were shutdown for three days as punishment for avoiding payment of their full tax bill).
    
16. Increased the minimum wage by 30% in 2004 (this was not the first increase since 1998). Government revenue from corporate taxes and oil sales have been used for many social programs and minimum wage increases.
    
17. Banned employers sacking workers (which was declared by the government in early 2003). This has been extended and continues, allowing the rapid growth of a strongly rank-and-file-active democratic trade union movement that is washing away the pro-boss unions.
    
18. Recognition of domestic work, extending permanent social security payments to people who do domestic labour (mainly women), none of this payment is taken away if their companion is in work.
    

[edit on 2/5/10 by ghostsoldier]

Originally posted by QuetzalcoatlAlien
Gdeed, it's apparent by yours posts that you lack any sort of knowledge on Socialism.

Obama is a Socialist? Really? That is why he privatized NASA correct? How long has the United States been Socialist?

What a joke

i agree...this is just a non-issue that is being used by the right. americas middle class has become decimated due to capitalists moving jobs out of america to (insert country here), that allow the lowest cost of a product to be produced.

if one would study history for a few thoughtful minutes...they would discover that governments are set up for basically 2 reasons....1. to stop the acumulation of extreme wealth out of the pockets of the many into the pockets of the few. 2. to facilitate the organization of the people into a viable and sustainable society.

that's why dictatorships, monarchys, do not work. the concentration of wealth becomes extreme and harmful. capitalists are needed, but they need to be strictly controlled, as if they are a self-absorbed, arrogant, 8-year-old child. without citing any examples (you can look it up yourselves), MOST, but not all, major man-made calamites, resulted from the interference or even origination from the mega-wealthy