Socialism is destroying Greece, Spain, Italy, Venezuela and America, to name a few

The people have voted for change and they seem to be getting change. But not much change left in their pockets. Money is the root of all evil. But money sure comes in handy when buying food, clothing and shelter. An over regulated not so free enterprise system as Socialism is doesn’t seem to be working very well, just look at the huge unemployment numbers in those countries.

Socialism didn't do mcuh to these countries.

If you want a culprit, try looking at the gambling form of capitalism espoused by the likes of Goldman-Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Enron, and Bernie Madoff.

You can't keep selling and reselling future productivity for ever-higher prices; sooner or later you actually have to wait for the crop to mature, the trees to get big enough to harvest, the car to be built and sold.

But the banksters and gamblers on Wall Street aren't willing to wait for anything to mature: they are Easter Islanders writ large, and will bring us all down with them, far too willing to cut the very last tree down so they can profit today.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by apacheman]

reply to post by apacheman


Exactly.. Capitalism damaged these countries.. Not Socialism.

How blind can people be to believe the nonsense that socialism is the cause of the massive market short sell??

Big business propaganda currently screams about how socialism is the root of the problems in order to shrug off the blame.. Simple as.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by apacheman

 

Exactly.. Capitalism damaged these countries.. Not Socialism.

How blind can people be to believe the nonsense that socialism is the cause of the massive market short sell??

Big business propaganda currently screams about how socialism is the root of the problems in order to shrug off the blame.. Simple as.

Oh I see when Socialist and communist countries fail it's capitalisms fault. Typical left way of thinking!

I would agree. This has nothing to do with socialism. It had everything to do with business people gambling money they didn't have on something that was none of their business. It's not even capitalism. There is nothing wrong with capitalism.

The idea of taking fake money and gambling that things will fail, which essentially causes them to do just that... this is what has been causing a lot of these problems.

Yes,I am befuddled by all those posting the evils of a capitalist society, namely the U.S. and the virtues of socialism.

What they don't or won't comprehend it the one fact.

ALL of the technological advances of the last 60 years that has allowed this world to get to the point it is today,had its beginnings here,mostly from somebody attempting to create something that would become a business.

Every other country, that didn't enjoy capitalistic principles,resorted to espionage to get the knowledge that we had.

Socialism depresses the human soul.Ever see pictures of people smiling in the eastern bloc countries?

If you did they were probably drunk.

The Soviets knew that if the NATO forces ever attacked through the eastern bloc nations the people of those countries would not fight back.

One of the reasons there were Soviet forces stationed there.

Socialism where you can be only what they want you to be.

"The American people do not know what is good for them."
A quote from The Hive Queen,Nancy Pelosi.

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by apacheman

 

Exactly.. Capitalism damaged these countries.. Not Socialism.

How blind can people be to believe the nonsense that socialism is the cause of the massive market short sell??

Big business propaganda currently screams about how socialism is the root of the problems in order to shrug off the blame.. Simple as.

Oh I see when Socialist and communist countries fail it's capitalisms fault. Typical left way of thinking!

Did you see what you did just now? Here, I will sing it in a differant octave so you can hear...

Oh I see when Bloated and irresponsible businesses fail it's socialism's fault. Typical right way of thinking!

Now did that help the argument at all? Maybe you should stick to your point instead of trying to bait?

Capitalism -- which I do not defend as it is not the Free Market but rather tends toward monopoly of commerce and government -- is not gambling.

Gambling can only happen at this level with the complicity of the government which agrees to look the other way.

This is called "corruption".

Period.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by apacheman

 

Exactly.. Capitalism damaged these countries.. Not Socialism.

How blind can people be to believe the nonsense that socialism is the cause of the massive market short sell??

Big business propaganda currently screams about how socialism is the root of the problems in order to shrug off the blame.. Simple as.

We can only look at history and conclude that societies that have called themselves socialist have all failed, and societies calling themselves capitalist have escaped mass poverty and generated wealth. White armchair academics are lucky, because they have the exclusive right of denying this, while enjoying freedoms and wealth billions of people in this world would be ready to kill for. Maybe one day, when someone points a gun to their head and takes their money away, they'll understand what makes the world go 'round.

reply to post by gdeed


Im a complete capitalist actually, not a big fan of anything other than a social safety net.. Im also a realist and well educated in the economics of geopolitics.

You obviously don't understand what happened during the crash in 2008..

Do a bit of research and educate yourself on it. Its actually very interesting.

And FYI.. the most socialist states in the EU and the World are doing the best during the crises.

Yes Greece is doing badly but they and the other Southern EU states (Spain, Portugal,Italy) rely heavily on tourism from the Northern states..

No tourists = No income. No income & heavy socialist policies = High deficits. Then socialist ideals lead to the problems they have there..

But you are making out that these problems were caused by socialist policies when in fact it was unchecked capitalism in the financial system that caused the crash.. there is no debating that.

reply to post by gdeed


Wow the good ole USA is socialist? Well then it was Dubya that we must blame. I mean the new guy couldn't have done it so soon could he?

Duba the Socialist???

T

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Oneolddude
Yes,I am befuddled by all those posting the evils of a capitalist society, namely the U.S. and the virtues of socialism.

What they don't or won't comprehend it the one fact.

ALL of the technological advances of the last 60 years that has allowed this world to get to the point it is today,had its beginnings here,mostly from somebody attempting to create something that would become a business.

Every other country, that didn't enjoy capitalistic principles,resorted to espionage to get the knowledge that we had.

Socialism depresses the human soul.Ever see pictures of people smiling in the eastern bloc countries?

If you did they were probably drunk.

The Soviets knew that if the NATO forces ever attacked through the eastern bloc nations the people of those countries would not fight back.

One of the reasons there were Soviet forces stationed there.

Socialism where you can be only what they want you to be.

"The American people do not know what is good for them."
A quote from The Hive Queen,Nancy Pelosi.

That hit the nail on the head!

All these cheap gadgets like cell phones, computer games, internet and everything that makes life fun and easy is because of Capitalism. And yet many people enjoying all those toys are biting the hand that created the toys and the freedom to enjoy the toys. They will be the ones that will feel the pain the most once they distroy Capitalism.

reply to post by gdeed


Its not a very good OP you put up there. It is correct that socialist policies are responsible for the decline of these countries but if you want people to learn and understand you have to show why. Pull out the charts and graphs. Communists are worker-types, often with no higher Education, so it is your job to educate them and show them how they are better off without Socialism.

Otherwise you`ll just get a bunch of posts saying "No, its not so".

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by gdeed

 

Wow the good ole USA is socialist? Well then it was Dubya that we must blame. I mean the new guy couldn't have done it so soon could he?

Duba the Socialist???

T

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Tiger5]

Americans voted in a scoialist congress two years before they voted in a socialist president and more socialist senators. Socialism doesn't take long to do lots of damage.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
and societies calling themselves capitalist have escaped mass poverty and generated wealth.

and completely destroyed the natural environment in their endeavors...

I would argue that both socialism and capitalism are just divergent forms of highly evolved feudalism and things although the same are certainly more intense.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
We can only look at history and conclude that societies that have called themselves socialist have all failed, and societies calling themselves capitalist have escaped mass poverty and generated wealth. White armchair academics are lucky, because they have the exclusive right of denying this, while enjoying freedoms and wealth billions of people in this world would be ready to kill for. Maybe one day, when someone points a gun to their head and takes their money away, they'll understand what makes the world go 'round.

It's apples and oranges to a degree. Socialist style governments only work when a strong Capitalist style economy exists to feed it. Socialism is not a kind of economy, it is a form of government, or more accurately, a style of government policy making. We can have socialist programs (nowadays called progressive or populist) in a representative democracy (aka a Republic).

One important thing to remember when discussion these fine points of government is that we have the same kind of government that the USSR had.. a Republic. United Soviet Socialists Republic. From what I can tell, there are three aspects of a country:

1) Government Form (Republic, Monarchy, Dictator, etc.)
2) Government Style (Communist, Facism, Plutarchy, Oligarchy)
3) Economic (Socialist, Free Trade, Capitalist)

I'm sure that list needs refinement, but I think that covers the general idea.

Gdeed, it's apparent by yours posts that you lack any sort of knowledge on Socialism.

Obama is a Socialist? Really? That is why he privatized NASA correct? How long has the United States been Socialist?

What a joke

I can't stand these threads where some moron comes in saying socialism cant work and NEVER has when there are plenty of nations who have done just fine with socialism and even enjoy a higher standard of living across the board. Face it, incorporating socialist ideas into society seems to be a good thing.
Here's one of thousands of links you can find that show people utilizing at least some socialist ideas live at a high standard.
letsaskquestions.blogspot.com...


I don't hate capitalism, and I don't love socialism, but to bash either for a failed global system is simply stupid. Any system can fail if you allow enough corruption to seep in, and any country can fail because they all have their own hurtles. People who are anti either system better bring some serious examples and explanations, or yer just labeled a fool and/or a coward in my eyes.

Now that health care is back in the pipline, we all have to subject to barrage of socialism threads again. *sigh*

Whatever, y'all make me sick.

Originally posted by lucid eyes
reply to post by gdeed

 

Its not a very good OP you put up there. It is correct that socialist policies are responsible for the decline of these countries but if you want people to learn and understand you have to show why. Pull out the charts and graphs. Communists are worker-types, often with no higher Education, so it is your job to educate them and show them how they are better off without Socialism.

Otherwise you`ll just get a bunch of posts saying "No, its not so".

I agree with you but the reason I use small bites is that most people on internet sites will not read long monotonous posts and study charts. The world is awash with leftwing ideology because its cool and it is a rebellious attitude towards America mostly. People love to rebel it makes them feel like intellectuals. No charts or mounds of words will change that.