Regarding the pilot that crashed his plane in Austin...

dup-post = plz delete

[edit on 19-2-2010 by TXRabbit]

When are we oppressed?

When we are forced onto cattle cars and into ovens, or when our elected representatives refuse to listen to us and push through agendas I dare say do not have our best interest at heart.

When is violence the answer?

Is it when we are on the ground dying and we want to get one good strike in, or is it acceptable to hit when the gun is shown and intentions are known?

Innocent? Who the # is innocent? Do you consider ignorance of a situation innocent? Because I must warn you that is not the standard the masters hold you to. But it is the standard they hold over you.

www.linktv.org...

That's just a taste of what your tax dollars are paying for, and once more the income tax as we know it is illegal. Not only is there no law, but the 1913 banker Amendment to the Constitutions is directly against the Constitution.

Joe Stack is a hero not because he could have hurt or killed these imaginary innocents, but because in a time filled with so much inaction this man took action.

Did he show us the way? (you decide)

If our government listened to us and conducted themselves in a way to portray themselves as representing us, this may have been averted. Now they whisper in our ears what we want to hear, until they think that we have "calmed" down.

Why if it is a right to peaceably assemble do we have to get permits from the very people we would assemble against? At the G20 protest unarmed individuals in submissive poses were regularly beaten and gassed. Yet we refuse to believe that what Joe Stack did was at least in his mind a final solution?

Some things are so shocking it gives us pause, unfortunately we don't need pause we need more action to take what he gave us, which is momentum and the ear of the gooberment. As more time goes on the less likely we will take the initiative.

The IRS employees don't have a choice? WTF, someone is holding a gun to their heads to make them work for not the guverment, but the banks which run the IRS. So a private enterprise is actively engaged in slavery? So in your mind the Nut case with the statue of liberty avatar the rights of humans are not worth the sacrifice that was put up for the civil war? Which was mainly a war over states rights which at that point were in question! But no that's ok just because corruption and oppression were showing there ugly heads back then doesn't mean anything to you huh?

Maybe we should start a drive to help the family of Mr. Stacks family.

Maybe we should accept that the south should have won that bloody war, and maybe, just maybe we could have a good just system.

My fellow Patriots- don't be afraid of what people think, spread the word that we aren't going to take it any more. Create a second government in you town, city, state that will rival the current system and maybe with popular opinion we can save the blood from turning the streets into obscene rivers.

Keene New Hampshire has already started this and is in the baby stages.

May we all be forgiven for the sin we may have to perform in the future.

Drastic measures don't always mean violence, but we should always be prepared for violence in drastic circumstances.

For those of you that think Stack is a hero, you're on the right track.

For those of you that say violence is never the right answer. Really? Really? Well whenever you find THAT place, leave me a PM and I'll be right over, but for those of us that have been deployed for nine months or three years, we know that if violence was not the answer we would not have to have seen what we saw, we would not have gone through what we did.

If you want peace, prepare for war! si vis pacem para bellum

A HERO HAS FALLEN! PATRIOTS WILL YOU LET HIS SACRIFICE BE IN VAIN?

Peace be with you brothers and sisters.



[edit on 19-2-2010 by oppaperclip]

Originally posted by l neXus l
so his manifesto is justification that its ok to fly a plane into a building? real sensitive, what if people would have died, you think its ok just because there were no deaths? peoples lives were ruined,

yeah lets give the government a middle finger by hurting innocent people, not everyone who works for the government is bad, quite the opposite actually, there are very few people who actually control what goes on, everyone else is there for a job just like the rest of America

[edit on 2/18/2010 by l neXus l]

The Founding Fathers; PATRIOTS. Revered, admired, cited often.

At the end of Rambo 3, see what it says about "The people of Afghanistan." See how they are portrayed. This is a perfect example of brainwashing. Patriots not so many years ago on the side of good, then set up, lied about, and made to be the "sacrificial lambs" now for the NWO. Al Qaeda is everywhere the NWO wants to send troops. Instead of saying "Demons" or "Satanists" to "dehumanize" some, they make up new "monsters."

Seriously, the 80s was spent supporting Afghanistan. Don't watch MSM anymore, can't stand it. But consider what I am saying here. Next thing you know, those of us who believe in the bible or the Constitution will be "Al Qaeda."

Here it is; United States is NOT for United States. Constitution is laughed at by Congress, and openly mocked by our "Presidents" as well. IF you read the Constitution, you would realize that many things are simply NOT Constitutional. The Constitution is like a father telling his daughter to be careful, use condoms, make sure she is loved first. Then for the last, oh, 100 years; we watch our daughter get raped, harassed, ridiculed, and make the wrong choices. THEN, we support those doing that. Just my analogy. Some don't care, but know that in time, you are next, as am I. Watching all we do, all we say, and for saying the Constitution is ABSOLUTE AMERICAN LAW makes us "terrorists"? One gave his life hoping to enlighten many. They have insurance, no worry to the higher ups (get building fixed). Now, if you are not AGAINST it, and you merely stand there watching a rape occur, you are just as guilty of that. Not against, then you must be for. Sit back, think it won't effect you; what you care about will be taken. Some of us don't want to harm anyone, or fly planes into anything, but like Chris Rock said in one of his skits; "I am not saying he shoulda killed her, but, I UNDERSTAND."

I have thought on this all day long. It's sits heavy on my heart. I want to believe that this wasn't instigated... to start something further. We've been lied to so much I don't know what to believe anymore.

The biggest thing that bothers me about this is... this man's ignorance to what it is truly like to live without.

Fact is, my husband and I will never ever have a retirement fund. He will more than likely work past retirement age.

We don't know what it's like to own a bank account. We live pay check to pay check. Why have a bank account?

I grew up on the rez where people are really poor. Where people try to figure out how to stretch $10 for a week of food for a family. It's just that way.

I'm doing better. A step up from them. But still. We don't have an American dream to worry and get angry about. I accept my life as it is.

Money is not going to make me happy anyway. Apparently it and his hate for a corrupt system ruined Joe Stack's life.

I really cannot find a hero in this man.

Basically he chose to kill himself.....over money.

Was his sacrifice for me? Hell no.

I could hardly believe this story when I heard it today.....

I have been reading a lot of different blogs just to get a take on people's moods everywhere on this story and have seen a lot of people saying stuff like " I sure don't condone this" I have seen this in mass responses all over, and what I think it really means is this: People really secretly do condone this happening but are afraid to say that on the internet for fear of some sort of reprisal by law enforcement. Corruption in government though is sadly just like cancer , In every attempt to cure the cancer of corruption in government, some of the "good" parts ( regular law abiding folks) get injured by the "cure"
I have been privately predicting this type of thing for a few years and knew it would happen sooner or later, expect to see much more of it in the future as long as the PTB keep on sinning against the private citizen.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Why would his wife be at a hotel?..and daughter...

Most issues today (environmental problems, ethnic conflicts, economic recessions, neo-colonialism, materialism, spiritual hollowness) are not new, nor are they so complex that we can't agree on basic ways of solving them and moving on. We face these problems today because humanity as a collective has lived in ignorance of the consequences of its actions. We overpopulated the planet, drained its resources, over-industrialized wild land, and then we asked: "Why do all fish contain cancer these days?"

We allowed multinational corporations to overthrow our governments in secret, importing millions of people as cheap labour to reduce production costs, and then we asked: "Why did the wages drop?" We privatized the economy and began replacing the production of domestic goods with pure financial speculation, and then we asked: "Why are we suddenly in a recession?" We decided to let national interests be controlled by corporate interests, so the hunt after natural resources and world power led us to a new age of colonial wars, and then we asked: "Why don't the Iraqis appreciate our freedom?" We exchanged the traditional values of heroism, honour, honesty, and transcendence for the hollow values of consumer materialism, and then we asked: "Why do our teenagers commit suicide?" We killed the myths and the religious wisdom because we failed to understand what it meant to us, and then we asked: "Why did God die?"

What results from this is a neurotic society where we lack direction and lose focus on the real world issues we should be dealing with. Instead we defend our passivity and apathy by constructing false enemies that we can battle inside our fantasy worlds. If we fail, we can always blame our enemy. Neo-Nazis claim to spread National Socialism to the people but anyone can see that they've failed for the last 50 years. Their response? "The Jews hate us."

Change requires planning, effort and strength, something most people in our world don't have. They fail immediately on the planning aspect, since their logic goes that if we just eliminate a particular binary evil (Capitalists/Negroes/Jews/Democrats/Satanists), everything will be OK. Truth is that there are no real "enemies," as much as a terrible design of society that needs a complete remake.

The false enemies are therefore internal enemies, because they hinder us from looking at a situation clearly. They are emotional and moral filters that simplify any complex event and turns it into a chicken fight between Good and Evil. Christianity has been preaching this idea for over 2,000 years and we have yet to see any actual positive results from this witch hunting.

People who glorify themselves as victims are losers and need to keep quiet. They destroy the active spirit that allows us to gain power and make a positive, constructive change. We don't need more race wars, terrorist hunts or revolutions. We need a sensible and complete remake of the world in which we live and that remake involves no enemies, other than those who are too ignorant to do something about the problems around us.

It's amazing how much emotion and controversy this man has caused by his actions and the words of his parting letter. I myself have suffered by the hands of the Capital G, but I took the lickin' and I am still a tickin'. Once I'm out completely on the streets with no options left then I may consider desperate options, but until then I'm going to work to try and support the mammoths back that has multiple fractures to its spinal column.

History repeats itself.

Before I get into this, I would like to share an event that opened my eyes. I was made more aware by this post and this situation happening.

A couple of weeks ago, I was driving on I35 when all of a sudden an 18 wheeler about 100 feet in front of me started to fishtail and go out of control. It jack knifed onto the road and I almost ran into it. If I didn't swerve out of the way in time, It would have cost me my life. My heart was beating fast, but I drove away and thought nothing of it. This was a situation of life or death.

A few days later, I was outside on my patio having a smoke when a black Ford sedan with an IRS sticker on the side door pulled up to the parking spot in front of my apartment cluster. My heart started beating wildly and I turned blue. My hands were shaking and I could not register this fear that was going through my mind. I don't even know what the fear was, it was almost primal. As the 2 agents got out and started walking towards my front door, I almost broke down in a nervous wreck and fear. The thoughts going through my mind consisted of "oh my god, whats happening" and obscenities of colorful variety. They knocked on my neighbors door and I took a puff of relief from my camel wide. After I went inside I was still shaken up by the close call and could not sit still.

When a man fears 1 black car, and 2 agents because of a name more than he does a close encounter with death on a freeway, there is something wrong.

Getting back to the topic. Where to start.. I just want to say that I agree with what this man did. This is my opinion. Yes, he could have killed "innocents" who were in the building. At the same time, these innocents also know that when they come to enforce their collections on families that owe money to their fat cat bosses, they are throwing people into the streets and killing families by the dozens. They know that when they take all that a man has when he is barely trying to get by on scraps, that they are killing him.
These innocents knew that when they signed up for a job as an IRS worker that it wasn't going to be all sugar and rainbows. Does this really make them innocents? We can keep pretending that some of these people are good and have good intentions, that some of them could have been there to voice their opinions on injustices ect. However, when an agency's sole purpose is to collect debt, no matter what.. all those thoughts about them kind of fly out the window for me. How many times have the IRS worked to HELP someone in trouble? Zero. How many times have the IRS set aside a debt on someone who owes them money because they knew that if they took everything he/she had, they would be homeless and their lives would be ruined? None that I have ever heard of (and im searching on google right now).

For all those who say violence never solves anything, and that it's not the only way nor is it the right way.. Well, when peaceful revolution is made impossible, violent revolution is made inevitable.

Our country was forged on violence. When people started saying no to tax collectors, that was the only peaceful part. They soon took up weapons and throwing items to the streets and started throwing things at the soldiers, even assaulting them. Was this necessary for them to do? If you were living in that time, you would probably think not. However look at where it got us. This man doing what he did is like that one lone stone that set off that one British soldier to take the shot. At a time when people's lives mean less to their government than how much paper they can produce... I don't even have words to finish that.

Yes, this guy is a patriot to me. He knew what he was risking when he did this. He knew he wouldn't get out of this alive, and to me he was a sensible man who knew where his back met the wall he was being pushed into.

As for people who are saying if you don't like America, move to somewhere else and see how you like it. I ask, why should I? When my country is in crumbles and ruled by greedy power hungry fools you ask me to flee to somewhere else so that I can experience and gain some kind of appreciation for the broken system of my own homeland? That sounds cowardly and counter productive to me. I will give the other broken countries like Somalia one thing though, at least their people know they are screwed. We are still asleep and think that everything is fine.

And for the record, if I were ever at a place of revolution and I happened to die in the involvement or first shot, I would die with a smile on my face knowing that true change is about to happen. That is the god honest truth that I can type with soul permeating through my finger tips.
[edit on 19-2-2010 by LeTan]

[edit on 19-2-2010 by LeTan]

reply to post by articulus
This man was no different from a religious zealot on the other side of the world, except that he has found sympathizers among people who consider themselves "patriots." Dissatisfaction with tax code and government is never an excuse for violence.


I guess you didn't read the whole manifesto then, he did try other methods:

--He tried to legally used corporate tax loopholes in his tax filing

--He sent letters upon letters to government officials and tried to affiliate with peaceful groups to remedy the tax reforms

Then he mentions 3 time in his life where the goverment bails out huge corporations (who created their own messy bed) with his (our) tax dollars... what a spit in the face

He also metions the suffering of others (80 year old widow... Steel worker husband... his stolen pension... now she eats catfood..... WTF??? thats messed up....)

In my opinion he must of finish reading this....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

-- The Declaration of Independence

Someone had to fire the first shot (in reaction someone had to take that bullet and die) for us to gain independence and freedom....

we celebrate that fact every year (4th of July)

and if you don't like this train of thought YOU go move to a country were you can get stepped on..... Like the UK

[edit on 19-2-2010 by FORMe2p00p0n]

I would also like to add that from what I have learned by reading about peaceful protests such as Ghandi's crusade, is that they never get what the people want.

They get compromises from a greater power that will not meet the common people halfway. Our country does not need anymore half ass compromises, it needs a full force of the people.

What do you think would happen to someone like Ghandi today if he tried to protest something in New York? Well, he would be held down by 12 riot agents 300 yards away from his destination as they spray mace in his face under the guard of a sound weapon mounted armored vehicle. All while his supporters watch in horror.

What I keep wondering....

Is how many people are actually afraid, or at least cautious, to post their opinions or use their right to free speech about how they feel about this?
How many people are afraid to give a star because they are afraid their vote of approval will be scrutinized?

Also, if it WAS a false flag attack...so what? Or if the media IS going to spin this to try to demonize constitutionalists and tea party goers, SO WHAT?

Do they naturally have the last word? Do we naturally assume that because we know the agenda conditioning is coming, that we have to bow our heads at the sink of the MSM in order to accept it when it gets dumped on our scalps?

I'm not one that is a member of any tea party. I'm a Ron Paul republican and NO OTHER. You can take your Palin and Romney and all those folks and listen to them if you want to - it's your right. I'm NOT one of those folks, but I SUPPORT their right to THEIR movement.

People ARE waking up. Let them spin it, and let us see where it goes. Just because something is spun, certainly doesn't mean it will go in a predictable straight line into the shoot.

Originally posted by hadriana
What I keep wondering....

Is how many people are actually afraid, or at least cautious, to post their opinions or use their right to free speech about how they feel about this?
How many people are afraid to give a star because they are afraid their vote of approval will be scrutinized?

I for one am not afraid of my 1st Amendment Rights, nor should you be, nor should anybody else posting on this website or ANY public forum for that matter. If TPTB, Men in Black Suits, etc., happen to trace my IP and find out where I live, let them. I still have my 2nd Amendment Rights to fall upon.

Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by l neXus l

 

My argument is null? Why because you disagree with it?

Fact is, anyone who works for the criminally corrupt government we have here is guilty. They may not necessarily take direct action in it, but by being employed by them, they are in de facto support of them.

And so you applaud their deaths.

Right.

I know where you stand on the issue.. and you make me ill.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

This is it folks. Stop eating all that # the government has been feeding you for years. Stop being kicked and pushed around.

What this guy did is the only thing that can save a country in a situation like america (or iran, iraq, you name it) is now. Some call it terrorism, others call it patriotism. What it should be called is the start of a revolution, a revolution where the people take their country back, where the government equals the people.

Just make sure that enough of the 'thugs' at the top start feeling the heat, and if it is not enough of a hint to change their ways, the heat will eventually burn 'em.

edit: as i fully support the justifications over why he did it, i do not support that he seemingly attacked random people - that is just lunacy. Turn the heat up at the levels who make the changes. Boil the ones writing or confirming laws that are against the constitution. Those are not innocent on any level.

[edit on 2/19/2010 by above]

Pro anarchist pro communist manifestos are a CIA well researched asset for manipulating public opinion, no matter how strange this might sound to some people. THEY PRACTICED/ING THAT IN EUROPE anyway.

I am willing to bet this is a CIA orchestrated event simply because they want more resources and since the US economy is not doing well they wouldn't mind to cannibalize over the FBI.
Also such a logic of design and operation of such theaters would also mean that CIA wants also an increased domestic role along with the foreign one that has been assigned to them.
Couple that with the corporations that can now buy up whole political administrations, I think US is going very deep in to the # hole in to the near future and of course certain other countries as well.



Let those scumbags get away with their public manipulation machinations and you people are in for a hell of a ride.
Better support institutions like the FBI than anything else mimicking the Satan himself in disguise. Don't say nobody warned you.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by spacebot]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Hopefully someone else points this out as well, but just to be certain: the IRS works for the Federal Reserve, not our government. The Federal Reserve is private and our income taxes pay the interest of the loans our government receives from the Fed. Congress could print money themselves ( see also JFK ) but instead our government decided nearly 100 years ago to give that power to a private central bank called the Federal Reserve. Income tax dollars do NOT pay for public services, they pay fat cats so that a few wealthy people can become even wealthier.

Do I like the idea of people flying planes into buildings? No. What if it was a Builderberg meeting? I like that idea more, but, regardless, no one would have read this man's manifesto if it weren't for his actions. That's a real tragedy.

Originally posted by hadriana
What I keep wondering....

Is how many people are actually afraid, or at least cautious, to post their opinions or use their right to free speech about how they feel about this?
How many people are afraid to give a star because they are afraid their vote of approval will be scrutinized?

Also, if it WAS a false flag attack...so what?

I am cautious. I will admit that. Tell you what -- I know we are being monitored.

Right now I am uncertain. Part of me thinks this was instigated, another part thinks it was an actual person doing this. We've been lied to time and again. The timing is too convenient and this is weird.

But if Joe Stack was a real person, I can't see him as MY hero. I grew up poor, and I will die middle class or poor. I'm OK with that, as money was never something that was an ultimate goal in life. I know when it's time to take the journey I will leave earth with nothing I have acquired in this life.

There are alot of poor people right now in the US who has lived without for decades, but you won't see them driving a plane into buildings because they are poor and I am talking about our native american brothers and sisters.

This is about all I want to say on the topic. We are living an illusion. The "American Dream" was something created in the 1950's by people who carved out a way of life based on money and material things.

Life is what we make of it.... when you allow other people to set your path for you you have lost the battle by giving them your power.

You think an IRS man is sitting tonight, crying over Joe Stack? lol no. They don't care.

I say, live life and reset priorities. Corruption always HAS been and always will be in this country and no matter where you go on this earth.

Be true to yourself, your own heart. Love your families and treat others good and have honor. Then you die knowing you did good. You may be poor but you cannot take a fist full of dollars to your grave anyway.

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


Several posters have mentioned that it may be a false flag incident. Who knows? It's amazing to me that the building hasn't fallen down yet and some building next to it hasn't mysteriously fallen down.....in it's own footprint........yet......