Regarding the pilot that crashed his plane in Austin...

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Violence against innocent people? This nations freedom was not built upon violence and injustice against the innocent. My freedom was build over the defense against those who commit such acts. Your a soldier, you should know better.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Our freedom was built upon violence and injustice against slaves and native Americans. Our country was built upon the sweat and blood of the innocent torn from their homes and forced into bondage... This country was never righteous and the primary cause of the Revolution was taxes...

I am in no way saying the guy was justified in what he did and I agree it was dumb to try to kill workers who had nothing to do with policy and had no real power in the system.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


What nation? America was British colonies. British subjects. It was a rebellion.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
i suggest you open a history book. when the british came to take our guns away, we shot at em all the way back to boston..

Yes, the British came and used force against you and in defense and for freedom the nation fought back. You didnt see any real patriots go around burning down the homes of innocent people to make a political point.

There is a difference between defending your freedoms, and killing innocent people to make a political point. The man may have not been able to take out lives, but he flew into the IRS well prepared to do so.

That is true but this is a different kind of war, and we face a familiar enemy...and that is tyranny.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Our freedom was built upon violence and injustice against slaves and native Americans. Our country was built upon the sweat and blood of the innocent torn from their homes and forced into bondage... This country was never righteous and the primary cause of the Revolution was taxes...

Innocent people that chose to risk their lives for freedom. Not innocent people killed by force to make a political statement. Those workers in those buildings, and those citizens who may have also been in that building complaining against the IRS were not given a choice as to whether to leave or stay. The plane came in and crashed into the building to the unsuspecting workers inside who were not by the least given a choice by the action this man. What right do you have to take the life of another to make a political statement.

I am in no way saying the guy was justified

And yet here you are, trying to justify.


[edit on 18-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


not all americans were rebels, 1/3rd were loyalists. you think patriots didnt burn down loyalists houses or kill thier woman or children?? of course they did... theyre not seen as innocents, they are seen as the enemy.. be they a combatant or not... thats war.. this whole media things saying innocent people are dying in the marjah offensive is bull. the taliban arent using them as shields, thats all propaganda BS to make us look good in the press. in reality, those civilians are helping the taliban.. they are supporting them with food, shelter, whatever... why do you think marjah is a taliban stronghold in the 1st place.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Does anyone here think that arguing over whether this man did the RIGHT thing is going to change anything?
He did what he thought he needed to do.
"These are the times that try mens souls."
What does that mean? It means that sometimes there are no easy answers. Ultimately, people resort to violence when all other options are taken away from them. Innocent people may die. How many innocent people have had their lives ruined by the IRS? Who did it? The people at the top may write the rules, but that cold blooded pawn with guards at the door is executing the orders.
These are the times that try mens souls.
I fear, before this is all over with, that those that live through these trying times will know exactly what those words mean.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


No I didn't try to justify this man's actions though I certainly understand his anger I also understand the stupidity of crashing into a building of low level IRS employees who really have no choice and had to follow policy.

I was correcting you on your American history. You claimed the freedom of this country wasn't based on injustice or violence and yet our entire nation was built on the backs of slaves and stolen from the Natives most of whom were killed.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

not all americans were rebels, 1/3rd were loyalists. you think patriots didnt burn down loyalists houses or kill thier woman or children?? of course they did... theyre not seen as innocents, they are seen as the enemy..

Yes, the children of these IRS workers, the children of the citizens who were in there most probably complaining against the IRS. They are the enemies? Do they deserve to lose their parents?

If these workers were given their lives if they left the IRS, do you deny that none of them would? You assume all IRS workers and the clients in there are under some vast government conspiracy to keep you under force. Are you mad?

Its just sad. Really sad. This isnt about politics any longer, this is about the lives of the citizens. If you are angry, you take your issue out in DC. Because killing the people right at the bottom doing the administration does not change a damn thing, and only takes away lives.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Stewie
He did what he thought he needed to do.

By attacking innocent people in a building that are fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, children themselves? And what will be the result following what he needed to do? DC is still there, passing the policies, keeping your tax system in check. What did he exactly do in Texas to change that besides risk some lives?

In afew weeks time this event will be forgotten. I'll come back to you and ask you whether he stopped you from paying taxes.

reply to post by Stewie

Ultimately, people resort to violence when all other options are taken away from them. Innocent people may die. How many innocent people have had their lives ruined by the IRS? Who did it? The people at the top may write the rules, but that cold blooded pawn with guards at the door is executing the orders.

True, but were all options really exhausted? It seems everything this man said in his manifesto is being taken to heart.

Was he really ignored or did he just think he was ignored? Maybe they did try to deal with him but it just wasn't to his liking.

Originally posted by l neXus l
so his manifesto is justification that its ok to fly a plane into a building? real sensitive, what if people would have died, you think its ok just because there were no deaths? peoples lives were ruined,

yeah lets give the government a middle finger by hurting innocent people, not everyone who works for the government is bad, quite the opposite actually, there are very few people who actually control what goes on, everyone else is there for a job just like the rest of America

[edit on 2/18/2010 by l neXus l]

just there for a job like thats an excuse? I'm in no way saying these people deserve death, but i completely disagree with you sticking up for people who re "just doing there jobs" there helping a fascist government steal from its people. thats like saying oh, its OK for the marine to kill the American for not giving up his guns, i mean... he was just doing his job... that is total b.s!

There is never a justification for taking a human life. Solutions can always be found to solve problems. As to complaining over losing material possessions and money.. irrelevent we come into the world with nothing and when we leave it we take nothing with us . Pointless to waste time on things that mean nothing. Spend the time learning and trying to make the world better instead of perpetuating the stupidity and mistakes of the past. But people never learn..

Crap. I actually identify really well with this guy. I mean what he did was horrible, unforgivable and stupid given his stated values. But jesus christ do i understand why he snapped. And i am amazed that more people are not doing this given the amount of people that have witnessed what he went through first hand in similar and identical situations.

As a citizen you have endless options before resorting to violence.
As authority, you have only few, and then - violence!

reply to post by srslyguyz

but i completely disagree with you sticking up for people who re "just doing there jobs" there helping a fascist government steal from its people.

Do they not also pay the same taxes the average Americans pays? Guess they are being stolen from as well.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

What he did was perform a single act of desperation. I do not believe he was trying to help me avoid paying taxes.
I think you assume way too much from comments.
I also think you may be underestimating the severity of our domestic situation, and how bad it will get.
This man does not have a history of violence, as far as I can tell. His action speaks for itself. He stated his case. Of course, we can judge, but what difference does THAT make. The big picture is what I believe YOU are missing. You think this will all blow over.

I do not.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by srslyguyz

 

but i completely disagree with you sticking up for people who re "just doing there jobs" there helping a fascist government steal from its people.

Do they not also pay the same taxes the average Americans pays? Guess they are being stolen from as well.

your point being? just because they allow it to happen to themselves, doesn't give them the right to help the same thing happen to others.

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but did this guy own the plane he crashed? If it was it, seems to me he was underestimating his economic success. I think a lot of us expected more for the education and the work we put in just to see all to go up in flames and robbed from us to give to the rich in the last 12 years. This is a sad story but the guy is no hero.

reply to post by Shinsengumi


Never a justification for taking a life? 100% wrong.

Someone tries to kill you or your family, you propose what? Talking to them instead of ending their life before they end yours?

reply to post by srslyguyz


Point being that people will still be paying taxes tomorrow and the IRS will still be collecting it. The guy went after innocent civilians not knowing who was going to be in the building.

Would you still be supporting this guy if a group of school children had been visiting while this went down?