Plane crashes into Austin building

reply to post by starviego

LAX, the largest airport for hundreds of miles around, would the THE LAST choice on my list of potential landing sites.

You just contradicted yourself, from one of your earlier posts!!!

OK... I think I get it...you are a Private Pilot, with minimal experience, am I correct??

You are concerned about the effect that Joseph Stack's actions might have on General Aviation? Correct, so far???

He was an ISOLATED case, a nutjob!!!

There should be NO repercussions to GA, based on this event, any more than there would be if a person drove their personal automobile into a storefront!!!

ONLY on ATS would this get so much lingering attention!!!

Recall, the student pilot, in Florida, who stole an airplane from teh Flight School where he was taking lessons, and committed suicide by slamming it into a building???

LOOK IT UP!

NO 'conspiracy' there, none here....

GA was not much affected by THAT incident....GA know how to 'police' their own, quite well

Joseph Stark was KNOWN and recognized, at the airport where he hangared his airplane --- he was no 'stranger' to anyone on the field...and no one could have predicted his erratic intentions.

More details--

latimesblogs.latimes.com...
A source familiar with the case said that Skye Edward Turner, 23, allegedly took the Cirrus SR22 single-engine aircraft after a domestic argument and had planned to fly the plane into the ocean but reconsidered
--The aircraft had been flying for six hours before landing in Palm Springs, according to a source, where it was refueled and flown to Los Angeles. The pilot appeared to be incoherent, and was taken to a local hospital for a psychiatric evaluation, where he was cleared physically and mentally by doctors to be booked, a source said.
Turner claimed he had gotten the aircraft’s keys from an airport in San Diego County. ...Even though the incident turned out not to be terrorism, it showed that potential threats come not only from larger commercial planes but also small aircraft, said Marshall E. McClain, who heads the union representing the LAX police force.

So, a man on a suicide mission steals a Cirrus SR22.... This is exactly how the Austin incident was first reported. But of course it is all just coincidence.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by starviego]

I didnt see it posted in the thread yet so here is the "Suicide letter" posted on embeddedart online from Joe Stack, the pilot of the plane.

www.t35.com...

reply to post by heckler


Check the first post of this thread for the link... It's there.

TheBorg

reply to post by Thought Provoker


I most certainly agree. Something is wrong here. While I do not support harming others, I can see why he did this. But, the reporting of this seems to be over shadowed by Tiger (who cares what he did) Woods.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I dont think his intent was murder and he wasn't insane, he was fed up, there is a difference. If this country is going to change we are going to have to break a few eggs and I dont mind. Sounds like you would rather live as a slave then lift a finger to fight back. Imagine how bad the IRS and the Gov't came down on him to make him do what he did. I think lots of us feel the same way alot of the time, and yes, we dont go flying planes into buildings, but atleast he stood up and said ENOUGH!!

Much more than I can say about the cowards around here.
(no offense everybody)

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Letmypeoplego]

Does anyone know if he actually successfully hit the building?
www.news.com.au...
image3.examiner.com...

IMHO it looks like he may have crashed just short of the building and sprayed debris at it which accounts for the lack of a distinctive "hole" and for the widespread aesthetic damage to the exterior of the building. But i dunno.. those pictures just don't look right to me.. anyone else?

reply to post by MacATK18


I don't know what you're refering to. When I look at the second picture I see a big hole in the glass facade and a big fire inside. This is consistant with what I would expect to see.

Are you looking for a distinctive outline of an airplane? You're not going to see that when an airplane goes through a glass front. Anyway this type of plane is way too light to cause damage to the steel and concrete structure of that building. The plane weighs about half of what your car does and it is much larger and it's made of aluminum and plastic.

Originally posted by Perseus Apex
reply to post by pyrael

 

If we have any geeks with more experience in tracing etc, your info would probably help alot.

Whether one's a geek or not, they could always forward information like ^that^ to Judicial Watch for I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

If it really concerns another, as it should, one could always hire a computer forensics specialist to take a 'closer' look though each has there own specialties. It's a good idea to interview first.

If your concerned about your own system, it can help to become familiar with Start>Control Panel>Adminstrative Tools>Event Viewer. Copy it once a month, (electronic draft and printed back-up), just in case.

My system is a 'hotel' for trojans, viruses, worms, spyware. As they feed, I like to take notes and assume we as One. Keeps it interesting for 'all' concerned.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by Perseus Apex]

I like your ..um.link

I'm not personally going to hire a forensic specialist, I just figured I'd mention that the traceroute (Iwhich is admittedly low tech at best) did yeild odd results. it appeared to "backtrack" meaning as you connect to the site, it went to a location, then to the site, then back to the location. Almost as if traffic and/or information to/from the site is being monitored.

As for my personal security, that's a great piece of advice, however my system doesn't have a control panel or a start button I'm running linux with browser spoffing in the meta data.

www.facebook.com...

Here is Sheryl Housh Stack of Austin Texas facebook page.

Sheryl Stack, 50, listed in records at the University of Texas as a graduate student in music performance, brought her own strange back story to the marriage, having spent several years in the sway of a religious cult before her parents orchestrated a rescue.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

"having spent several years in the sway of a religious cult before her parents orchestrated a rescue" Im going to try and find more on this.

Kidnap or not? Anti-cult `rescuer' goes on trial

Published on October 16, 1988

The operation went down on the street near Moonie headquarters in Denver when half a dozen men grabbed the 29-year-old Swedish woman, forced her into the back of their van and drove off.

What was going on here? Was this a kidnapping or a rescue?

The question comes up Monday in Denver District Court in a case that revolves around how far families can go to try to reach grown children they feel have fallen under the influence of a cult.

Omaha private investigator

[edit on 20-2-2010 by JBA2848]

news8austin.com...

The daughter of Joseph Stack, Samantha Dawn Bell, called her father a very loving and caring man.

"I'm in shock right now. I'm having a nightmare. It's overwhelming," she said. "I don't understand, and I keep asking why, because he loved us and he had a wonderful life, and he had so many friends and family."

Bell spoke to News 8 over the phone from her home in Oslo, Norway, where she has lived for the past 14 years. She is his daughter from his first marriage.

www.facebook.com...

Samantha Dawn Bell JOE STACK IS/WAS MY FATHER AND I'M NOT ASHAMED OF IT! I'M DEEPLY SORRY FOR THE ONE'S WHO HAD DIED AND THEIR FAMILIES. HE WAS A WONDERFUL FATHER AND GRANDFATHER.....12 hours ago

[edit on 20-2-2010 by JBA2848]

Butler School of Music Final best part of our day: UT chapter of Sigma Alpha Iota will accept donations in support of Sheryl Stack and her daughter. Complete information on our website, www.music.utexas.edu... School of Music | Welcome to the Sarah and Ernest Butler School of Music
tinyurl.com
Butler School of Music, University of Texas at Austin
Yesterday at 7:06pm · View Feedback (2)Hide Feedback (2) · Share

Why donate money to them how about the innocent guy who got killed.

www.music.utexas.edu...

Butler School Chapter of Sigma Alpha Iota to accept donations on behalf of Sheryl Stack Family
The Butler School of Music at The University of Texas at Austin has arranged with one of its student organizations, Sigma Alpha Iota, to accept donations on behalf of Sheryl Stack and her daughter. Sheryl Stack, wife of Joseph Stack, is a graduate student at the Butler School of Music. Those wishing to support Sheryl Stack and her family at this time may send donations to

The University of Texas at Austin
Butler School of Music
ATTN SAI Stack Fund
1 University Station, E3100
Austin TX, 78712.

“I am moved by the expressions of concern and the desire on the part of so many to assist,” said B. Glenn Chandler, Director of the Butler School of Music. I want to express appreciation for our community’s display of concern for humanity in times of crisis.”

Sigma Alpha Iota is an international music fraternity with a mission to encourage, nurture and support the art of music. The UT Beta Sigma chapter has a history of community service including their recent efforts to support relief efforts in Haiti through the American Red Cross.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by JBA2848]

Kidnap or not? Anti-cult `rescuer' goes on trial
$2.75 - Minneapolis Star-Tribune - NewsBank - Oct 16, 1988
Her daughter, Sheryl Housh, spent four years in The Way International until Whelan grabbed her off a street in Minneapolis. ... Related web pages


CULT 'RESCUE': HOW FAR CAN FAMILIES GO?
$2.95 - Press of Atlantic City, The - NewsBank - Oct 23, 1988
Her daughter, Sheryl Housh, spent four years in The Way International until Whelan grabbed her off a street in Minneapolis. ... Related web pages

His wife was in a cult 1984-1988. She was kidnapped and deprogramed by Omaha private investigator Dennis Whelan he was then charged with second-degree kidnapping and conspiracy in the disappearance of. So I guess she was a "Moonie" and part of The Way International religious cult.


Case has been Closed
Case Number: 87C286035 Case Information
Status: Case Type: Violation Date: Date Filed: Courtroom:
CLOSE KIDNAPPING 05/26/1987 06/02/1987 00:00 11S
Pay Amount: $0.00 Reduced Pay Amount: $0.00
Location: DENVER COLORADO
AB Number: GO Number:

Party Information
Party Type Last Name First Name MI Suffix DOB Party Status
DEFENDANT WHELAN DENNIS 07/15/1935
Race Hair Weight Height Eyes Eyeglasses

Attorney Number Attorney Name


Violation Information
Violations Description Points Disposition Class Code
18-3-302 DISMISSED
18-2-201 DISMISSED
18-3-303 DISMISSED
Action Information
Date Action Judicial Officer Crtrm Dispo Amount
11/12/1997 00:05 PARTY - GGCC ("B" LINE)
Minutes
PRTY=3

09/26/1997 00:03 BOND INFO -GGCC ("D" LINE)
Minutes
BDATE= 05/28/87 BOND#= BTYPE= BAMT=250000.00 BSTATUS=SET PRTY=1
06 03 87 BOND RED 5.000.00
BDATE= 05/28/87 BOND#= BTYPE= BAMT=250000.00 BSTATUS=SET PRTY=2
06 03 87 BOND RED 5.000.00
BDATE= 06/03/87 BOND#=316176 BTYPE=S BAMT= 5000.00 BSTATUS=REL PRTY=1
BDATE= 06/03/87 BOND#=316175 BTYPE=S BAMT= 5000.00 BSTATUS=REL PRTY=2

07/29/1987 08:30 PRELIMINARY HEARING 11S DISMISSED ON MOTION OF DA
06/04/1987 09:00 2ND ADVISEMENT 12T SET NEW COURT DATE

www.foxnews.com...

A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation in Austin told CNN that several seats were missing from Joseph Stack's Piper Cherokee PA-28 and a fuel drum was also missing at the airport from which he took off Thursday.

"I think there is a good chance he might have put it on his plane," the official said.

.

I guess that explains the size of the fire ball.

Originally posted by JBA2848
several seats were missing from Joseph Stack's Piper Cherokee PA-28 and a fuel drum was also missing at the airport from which he took off Thursday.

Ah yes, the ol' conveniently left near the plane and now missing fuel drum. What a ridiculous story. Have any of these missing seats been found at the airport? How does one guy manhandle a 'drum' of fuel onto the wing of the plane, and then through a tiny door into the back seat, all without being seen?

Maybe he was carrying extral fuel in a special pouch sewed into his underwear. Yeah, that must be it.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by starviego]

Apparently if this guy was disgruntled with the government he hid it extremely well, according to his friends he was easy going hugged hello and goodbye and didn't seem to have a bad bone in his body.

He was a musician and a decent guy according to his friends.

Apparently he was a "Good Pilot" and use to fly to Silicon Valley all the time from the Georgetown airport. His job as an Engineer required the travel and was usual.

However, there are a lot of questions. Well questions I ask myself at least. For Example:

I am not an expert at FAA regulations but isn't a flight plan always required before taking off?

Would a plane of that size actually create the amount of damage that was shown (I can say they are a good size and the fire seemed to affect the whole building.)?

And is it possible for a "supposedly sane person" (according to his friends) to snap and flip a switch causing him to fly a plane in to a building traveling at that rate of speed?

Now I do live in Austin and I did work in the Echelon Buildings (glad I don't any more) but I do have friends that still work there. And I am glad that none of them were directly injured or affected by this. I won't justify this issue as a course of action, justifiable, crime, or terrorist act. It's too soon to name, and I can say that knowing Police Chief Acevedo well that he is not wording the press conference material as a terrorist act because he doesn't want to alarm the community and he wants to be 100% sure before pointing the finger. I am sure the FBI had a lot to say in the matter, but if you watched the live press conference as I did here on a local channel in Austin you would have seen that Acevedo and the Fire Chief didn't follow FBI suit and shout nix at the questions and story. All of the local emergency offices in Austin should be commended for their expedient actions and the only offices which never answered questions were the federal divisions. Thank God for the Texas spirit that has blessed our police chief and fire chief in saying screw the fed's idea of shouting nix. I only wish more public figures had the spirit.

Originally posted by phyla2012

Originally posted by patmac
A quick search of Stack led to something interesting. The first two results were news articles about today's event. The 3rd was this:
www.aircraftone.com...

His flight registration information came up.

Well, isn't that convenient google. Did your algorithms pick this out? Something is not right about any of this.

N2889D JOSEPH A STACK
Individual * PIPER PA-28-236

[edit on 18-2-2010 by patmac]

But he crashed a Cirrus SR22, not the Piper. The police chief said he did not "steal" the plane. What gives?

The Cirrus info was wrong. New iinfo was that it was a Piper Cherokee. The registration info cited above is contained in a list of registrations for all aircraft registered in Lincoln, CA., the location of Lincoln Regional Airport/Karl Harder Field , about 17 nm SW of Sacramento. It was also erroneously reported that it was a Cherokee 140, the first aircraft produced under the PA-28 Aircraft Type Certificate. A PA-28-236 is the Piper Dakota, a successor name for the Cherokee 235. Fuel capacity was increased to 84 gallons for the 235 and Dakota (236) versions. Wikiperdia has a pretty accurate history and description of the Cherokee family

Originally posted by Capt. Charisma

Originally posted by Nola213
Well MSNBC just read a few bits of the "Manifesto".

What was with the one "expert" on MSNBC saying we don't need to tighten airport security, because this same thing could be done to a building with a car or a bus or a truck

and he's talking with no explosives involved...

Yea , sure try and take your Ford Taurus and crash it into a 7 story building, and see if you get this type of damage

Where do they find these morons??

Does he not realize a plane(even a small one) filled with jet fuel is basically a missile? That's a little different than a car or truck or bus. Without being rigged with explosives is barely gonna get through the lobby.





[edit on 18-2-2010 by Capt. Charisma]

The suicide airplane, if filled with jet fuel,becomes a missile that never reaches the target. Put jet fuel in a Cherokee, it might, because of residual fuel in the carb and the fuel lines, barely get off the ground. The Lycoming engine won't run on jet fuel. Which may be worse since aviation gasoline burns hotter in open air and autoignites at a lower temperature than jet A fuel, ergo, more damage from avgas than jet A.

Originally posted by freetree64
reply to post by havok

 

Here, here.... but I expect it will posted at least 20 more time's regardless, in the meantime.... Can the IRS sue the plane's manufacture? Sorry, couldn't resist...

[edit on 18-2-2010 by freetree64]

Nope, Piper Aircraft declared bankruptcy in 1991, long after Stark's aircraft was built.

Originally posted by inbound

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by inbound
reply to post by havok

 

well sure, but are they registered and titled to them? I own a boat, no license required. I own a car- registered and titled to me. license required- not sure how you would tag and insure it without one. The plane is registered to him. I know nothing about pilot's licenses, but I would imagine if you owned one(in your name) and stored it in an airport, somewhere along the way you would need a license. Also I would imagine the company insuring it would want a copy.

No license needed to own one or hangar one at the airport. Insurance is not required for non-commercial operations. And you can get insurance with an "open pilot" endorsement which doesn't name a particular pilot but sets minimum certification and experience requiresments.

Yeh I have been told (by a pilot) that the open pilot endorsement is mostly for people who buy a plane and intend to use it to get their license to avoid the high cost of renting another plane to learn to fly-- insurance costs on the open pilot license is astronomical- so Ive been told. Insurance would be required if you were financing to own the aircraft, thats what I meant, kinda like a new car carrying full coverage. That is assuming he was financing the plane, dont know if he owned it outright.

According to FAA records he bought the plane in 1998

N-number : N2889D
Aircraft Serial Number : 28-7911227
Aircraft Manufacturer : PIPER
Model : PA-28-236
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : STACK JOSEPH A
Owner Address : 661 6TH ST APT 111
LINCOLN, CA, 95648-1824
Type of Owner : Individual
Registration Date : 02-Mar-1998
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard
Approved Operations : Normal

Most lenders won't finance an aircraft for more than 7 years. The preliminary NTSB report will be out in a couple of days and that will end the speculation over his certification status.