67 year old man beats the hell out of thug on bus

reply to post by DeltaPan


Tom also said the man hit him three times in the face. So are we to assume what Tom said about the guy being a parolee, etc is true?

Does anyone oven know cornrow guy's name?The facts can be found out,I have been reading around a bit,but havn't gotten info to confirm or deny.I know some nutty old war dogs which Tom has been widely reported to as being.Is it our business?I'd sure like to know.Is someone sequestering info?Another conspiracy?PS the Elder White Man,looking like a bus driver himself,but seen sitting up front earlier on,may well have saved cornrow guy's teeth if not life by pulling EBM off by the shirt,He was the person the EBM addressed after the pummeling ceased and you can see his hand.Pity cornrow.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by trueforger]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by DeltaPan

 

Tom also said the man hit him three times in the face. So are we to assume what Tom said about the guy being a parolee, etc is true?

Good point, there is obviously a point where on the floor, we didn't see anything etc, may have included a couple of hits down there, we don't actually know and Tom was on a roll during the interview.

But he got that from somewhere, i assume the police he's been conversant with since the incident. he may have just allowed his recollections to run away a bit regards the blows of the altercations, do you recollect everything exactly frame by frame, would you after a rough life and aged 67?

It's likely substantiated facts will emerge at some point as this has been receiving a lot of public interest.

For the moment, i say there's bound to be truth in part or whole in that regards to what was said during interview.

Just because he's had a hard life and is 67 isn't a reason to discount every word the man says, notice some have developed that sort of bias.

reply to post by ker2010


Before I go on there are some other things I should point out. Someone should get hit with a 243.35 which is battery on public transportation. If charges are filed, one of these men will most likely be hit with this charge. If Tom is telling the truth about the black guy having the knife it could be a 245.2 which is assault with a deadly weapon against a transportation worker or passenger.

Ok Mr know the law... I go into a store me and this guy bump into each other by mistake. He calls me a SOB, I call him one back. He calls me a SOB again, i call him one back. HE then says my moms is a @#$%$ so i haul off and knock his teeth out.

Who gets charged?.

OK “Mr. I don’t know the law but I’m a big bad bouncer who has made people bleed and I’m over 6 feet tall and have MMA training” the answer depends on if the state where the incident happened has disturbing the peace laws , and if those laws are applicable in the example you provided. Also, what comes into play, especially when your dealing with (3) of a 415 is freedom of speech. Does a person have freedom of speech to call your mother a "*****"? These things usually are considered on a case by case basis, and given the history of racism in America and the whole shoe shining stigma, there is a compelling case for it. Moreover, who would be charged also depends on your states pc when it comes to assault, battery and how they are defined. So based on the incident you typed, there is no clear cut answer. However, under California law, the white guy could also claim self defense if the following are true: reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of being killed, seriously injured, or unlawfully touched, believe that immediate force is necessary to prevent that danger, and use no more force than necessary to defend against that danger. So before you can say he acted in self defense, you have to first find out what actually occurred, because although he may be defending himself from attack, he may be defending himself from attack that he may have actually caused. Do you understand now?

NOW according to you we both do cause he said the first thing and got me riled up. So when the cops get there and this guy is bleeding like a stuck pig with his teeth on the floor and the witnesses said i hit him first they are gonna lock him up too right? So we both get locked up...

I can see you’re another selective reader on ATS. Did you previously R-E-A-D what I said about the history of blacks in America and the racist connotations with shining shoes? Go back and read it as another member read it and understands the thought being conveyed. However, you don’t so I suggest you go back and read it several more times or either pick up your states penal code. If you want mine its ISBN:978-1-4224-2094-2. If the police believe the witness, and do no investigation, you could be locked up. However, the police can do an investigation and give you both the chance to file against each other or they could lean towards whoever files first.

Im playing the role of the old man. Now how about if that black guy beat up the old man?? would the old man still get in trouble because he said some bad things?

Why aren’t you reading? I listed the codes for you to look into and you’re asking me a question I’ve already answered. If the black guy beat up the old man (something I find highly) the old man could still be hit with a 415 and it depends on two things: 1. did it happen in a public place (yes). 2. Did he willfully or unlawfully fight or challenge another person? (up for debate.) You need both of these to be convicted of 415 (1). Now for 415 (3) California law says our courts decide this on a case by case basis. But again, when considering the shoe shine comment, and the guys use of “china man” he could be hit with it.

YEAH RIGHT!

Yeah right? You don’t make any sense.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by DeltaPan

Good point, there is obviously a point where on the floor, we didn't see anything etc, may have included a couple of hits down there, we don't actually know and Tom was on a roll during the interview.

Watch the video. After he gets clocked he holds his head and never lets go of the railing/post. He fired off a punch and it went downhill after that.

But he got that from somewhere, i assume the police he's been conversant with since the incident. he may have just allowed his recollections to run away a bit regards the blows of the altercations, do you recollect everything exactly frame by frame, would you after a rough life and aged 67?

I don’t know where he got it from. What I do know is several things Tom said that happened during the video did not occur. Go back and watch his interview, watch the fight again, and watch his interview again. There are several things that clearly did not happen.

It's likely substantiated facts will emerge at some point as this has been receiving a lot of public interest.

I don’t believe the police are going to do anything. If the black guy is on parole I can see him going back to prison, but that would be on the parole officer to decide.

For the moment, i say there's bound to be truth in part or whole in that regards to what was said during interview.

I believe there could be some truth but the problem as it stands now is there isn’t enough truth to charge anyone yet

Just because he's had a hard life and is 67 isn't a reason to discount every word the man says, notice some have developed that sort of bias.

No, I’m not discounting what he said because he had a hard life or is 67 years old. I’m questioning what he said because he clearly stated that he was hit three times and nowhere in the video was he hit three times.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Do you know what a legal student is? It’s a mouse in training to become a rat.

Yeah watching the interview, It clearly shows how nuts EBM is.

The second video where he's going mad and shouting "Vietnam, Vietnam yeah" and so on shows he's a little nuts... but the interview video absolutely confirms it, beyond question.


I don't really buy anything he says in the interview apart from perhaps his mother dying, which was very sad

I would like to know if the black guy really was wanted for...well, just about every crime going according to EBM.


The whole situation/fight is so sad and the girls who filmed and heckled are an embarrassment to the human race.



My ultimate feeling is that EBM is a very sad and extremely mentally unstable man.... i hope we find out one day what truly happened.
There were a lot of people on that bus, some must have seen the storm this video/incident has caused, i wish someone (reliable) would shed some light on this.

reply to post by Xtraeme


EDITED. Nevermind.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

Dupe.

2nd line

[edit on 20-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by Dark Ghost

If that is true then both of them can argue they were under the influence of a substance and neither had a realistic chance of avoiding the confrontation. When somebody under the influence of drugs or alcohol harms somebody else that is not, being under the influence is not an excuse. But if both were, then it is a different matter. (It appears nobody but those two were directly harmed by what happened so the issue is between the two of them).

They can still be hit with disorderly conduct or public intoxication. The problem is, we don’t know if any blood samples were taken, and if they weren’t it wouldn’t be a factor.

The account of the witness (young woman) should be taken into consideration, but so should the fact that there is a conflict of interest using her testimony as evidence to support the assertion that the old man was in the wrong. Why? Well, it can be argued she is heard encouraging the younger guy to physically harm the older guy on several occasions while yelling comments that can also be deemed racist. Why should we all take her word for it that the old man started things and made them escalate?

Which goes back to what I originally implied, which is, you can’t have it both ways. Why should we take her word period? Remember, I wasn’t the one who mentioned her, or cited her interview, another member did that. Also, she could also be covering for the black guy and attempting to save him from the humiliation of being beaten up by an older white male (especially after he talked all that trash) by saying “he was drunk”. I don’t think anyone that has been interviewed so far is credible, and if I were in charge of this case (if it’s even an investigation going on) I would do absolutely nothing unless I had full video or a credible witness (maybe the older woman who tried to calm the black guy down.)

But what he said is not an incitement to violence. What the younger man said in reply was an incitement to violence. The older guy's words sound like he is mocking what the younger was implying "I aint scared of you".

No, go back and watch the video again. The white guy asks why the black guy was so hostile. He tells him he is pissed off, and the white guy says “You better be pissed off than pissed on” (and something unintelligible after that). He then continues with the “you ain’t scared of this white boy” comment. He says it again, states his age and then the black guy gets up. He then repeatedly says, “you ain’t scared of me”. All it takes is a “What? I’m not scared of you?” type of mentality or answer (which is what actually happened because he got up) to the challenge of being scared (intimidation) and there you have it. Everything goes downhill.

I agree that he should have stopped talking as well. But in his favour is the irrefutable fact that he moved away from the younger guy and would have stayed away had the younger man not come back on two separate occasions form the back to the front of the bus. They were both antagonising but the younger man made the situation escalate rapidity when he decided to land a weak punch to the older guy's chest.

Yes, he moved away, but did he move away and continue to escalate the situation? See it’s one thing to move away and keep your mouth shut. It’s another to move away and still talk.

You raise valid points here. But do you really think the situation is as clear-cut as that? Were other witnesses interviewed and asked what had taken place? We cannot make a fair judgement based on the account of one single person - especially when this person is heard to be encouraging the younger man to attack the older man.

This whole time I’ve been saying its not a simple case of what is shown in the video because the video doesn’t show it all. It isn’t clear cut, and the only reason why I cited the young woman is because someone else cited her as evidence that the guy was a drunk. So again, if we are going to take her word for the guy being drunk, we should take her word for the white guy also being drunk and possibly on drugs and starting the fight right? You can’t have it both ways and the only way we’ll ever know the truth is if the whole video pops up or credible witnesses pop up.

We can hear throughout the video that other witnesses (excluding the woman mentioned) urged the younger man to not further antagonise the older man. Another woman even says "leave that man alone" and the younger man is twice held by the collar by another female witness who can sense trouble brewing.

There could be many reasons why they were telling him to leave him alone. It could be because he was older. It could be because they actually know the white guy and know he has disorders. I don’t know and can’t say that based on the video they were telling the black guy to stop because he was in the wrong.

To top it off, the younger guy announces his Battle Cry ("What? Waaaaaaaaaat!") which is another incitement to violence. Sorry, but based on the evidence in the video the younger guy appears to be the one responsible for the situation he found himself in afterwards.

No, that isn’t an incitement to violence. Why? Because they aren’t offensive and no threat is implied. However, saying “You ain’t scared of me” and doing it mockingly, like you yourself said he did, can be considered a challenge.



[edit on 20-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

PLEASE DONATE TO THIS GENTLEMAN He needs a helping hand.

animalnewyork.com...

Originally posted by Interfacer
PLEASE DONATE TO THIS GENTLEMAN He needs a helping hand.

animalnewyork.com...

G'day Interfacer

I'm not sure it's good for him to start publishing his personal details in such public forums.

Perhaps our humour & amusement at his expense could end up damaging him after all.

I think this all could end up in tears.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Found this: It's from someone who claims to have met EBM just before this infamous thing. It appears to paint the younger black man in a more negative light, and EBM in a more positive light.

deadspin.com...

(from above link)...But we'll leave you with this completely unverified email from someone who really likes to call people "cat" and consider it a tribute to "Tom Slick," while hoping that no one has to cross paths with his fists again.

[Thanks to SFist for the background info.]

* * * * *

So this about the "I am a Mother#er guy" on the Oakland bus. I saw this cat that day. Here's what he was up to just before the incident:

So I'm waiting on the NL bus to San Francisco on the corner of Fruitvale and MacArthur in East Oakland (not ghetto East Oakland). It's a good neighborhood. Anyway, it's a beautiful day and I had to go to work. So I arrive at the bus stop at 1:35pm. The bus leaves at 1:45pm. The weather is gorgeous. Not a lot of people out. A sleepy day.

There are three Mexican kids at the bus stop as well. The kind of kids that try so damn hard to be street but just can't quite pull it off: "nigga" this, "nigga" that, "ya feel me". It was funny, yet a little sad. So out of nowhere I see this cat in a Santa Claus Silver beard come bombastically walking towards the bus stop. This cat was LOUD. He walks up to the kids and it looked for a second as they might have been getting off on the wrong foot but it was just that they were got a kick out of his "I am a Mother#" shirt. When I saw it, I laughed too.

IAAMF guy pulls out a pack of generic menthol 100's cigarettes and gives one to the 3 Mexican kids to share. Then he puts on a show. He telling everybody how hard he is (in a funny/jovial way). I believed him. He's yelling how he got his ass beat by 6 Black guys in Chicago for wearing an A's hat. It was in the bathroom and while he was pissing, he got hit over the head with a bottle. He also talked about the time he got beat up by the cops in NYC and that's why he was yelling at the "pig" OPD who was across the street in his patrol car. The Mexican kids were loving it.

I kinda was too.

He then goes on about how "high" he is and that he just "smoked some of the best # in town". Then he talked about (when I say "talk", I mean very loud almost yelling) wanting to get "some pussy". I laughed and he walks over and gives me a high five. He goes on to say that he's hung like a mule and that "even guys want to suck my #". I believed THAT.

This is all great street theater.

So it's about 3-5 minutes before the bus comes and he spots this cat across the street. This guy is a famous shoe-shiner in the City. I know the guy. IAAMF guy yells and runs across the street. He almost got killed in the process as he didn't look both ways and seriously ALMOST got hit. I'm thinking this guy really is a MOTHER#. Apparently IAAMF didn't have enough money for the $4 transbay fare (I know, rip off) so he got some cash from shoe-shine guy. I guess they "go back 20 years man".

That Brown Bag that you see on the bus that the ghetto kids say "let's go through it" was actually IAAMF guy's buddy's bag. Yes he had a friend. His friend never said a word and he didn't have his bus fare either. So when the bus came IAAMF guy couldn't get on it.

My guess: They scrounged some bus fare and hopped the next bus.

In closing, in The Town you have a lot of these young/not so young black kids that # with white people on the bus. Not just any white guy but white guys that seem vulnerable to them. Just the other day there was this guy that looked like Tug Speedman's character in Tropic Thunder. The mentally challenged guy. He got #ed with on the bus. It wasn't cool. There is also a "slow guy" that's a neighborhood guy whom I've seen get #ed with. I think this guy and his crew thought IAAMF guy was an easy target too hence the "beat his white ass" remark. You never know who you're #ing with. That cat had it coming to him.

Thanks for your time,
Chuck

[edit on 21-2-2010 by star in a jar]

2 New videos.

Clearly exploiting the chap now










[edit on 21/2/10 by blupblup]

Are people on here really claiming that if a white person says the words "boy" and "shoe shine" around a black person that gives the black person a right to physically attack the white person?

Sorry, but that is some seriously twisted logic.

Just because someone says something that you think might be offensive, doesn't give you the right to start verbally abusing them, and it especially doesn't give you the right to physically attack them.

When someone starts to obviously verbally abuse you, that is a different problem. Tell them, you understand that they are looking for a fight, and will probably wind up in jail soon, and explain you aren't interested in going to jail today.

EBM proved he was the better man by getting up and walking to the front of the bus.

reply to post by blupblup


i have to disagree slightly

they may personally be "exploiting" the guy, but the guys loving it and eating it up

its bringing him the attention he wants and deserves, too often the elderly become ignored and forgotten

someone else posted a statement by someone who supposedly was around ebm before the fight, talked about ebm's interaction with the mexican kids, i believe it, the story matches the guys personality

an old lonely man trying to get attention in a tough world that has shunned him after sending him out to fight for them

i dont know how much it can be considered exploitation when the man is benefiting from it

that guy doesnt care about what he looks like around the world online, he cares that people are now talking to him and giving him the time of day when hes walking down the street, seems like its also bringing him a bit of cash here and there also

without the money from this situation, who knows, maybe he wouldnt have been able to attend his moms funeral


im not saying hes the most stable man in the world, but hes far from the craziest, for all we know, he may know exactly what hes doing, he could be "playing crazy" to gain more interest, we are more interested in the crazy then the sane in this world, especially when it comes to media and the internet

for all we know, hes the one exploiting everyone else, this may just be all part of his game, that he seems to play pretty well


sure thats probably not the case, but it may be, who knows, i do know theres many others out there who are significantly more crazy then him

ive met many a man very similar to him, on the outside, you think they may be insaneor mentally unstable, but once spending time with the person and learning who they really are, sometimes, you find that their appearance and actions are defense mechanisms that they have learned to use to stay safe, gain acceptance, and keep themselves from being forgotten

its a trick ive seen many elderly use

Counting his cash on line,too funny!!How many fakers would do that?Seriously,he's showing how much he has gotten.That is honesty on so many levels.

funnier than hell!!!

You younger guys should remember one thing .. older guys may know dirtier tricks!!

i DON;T K NO IF THIS IS UP YET.

dOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE HECK THIS IS?

ebm..../f5fffc795

[edit on 21-2-2010 by 517.101]

Apparently there is going to be a "Round 2" of this fight.

If anyone else can put it on youtube, i'd love to see it.



Apparently that black guy really wants to fight him again, and well tom wants a prize reward and the money back that the black girl stole from his bag.


I also found it funny that he was on his way to pick up weed, and his friend is a big fighter who got beat up cause he jibbed him on his coke buy......

Really makes me feel like never fighting a drugged up vietnam guy....

So, if you find it, please post round two.....