Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

Originally posted by Louana
reply to post by gluetrap

 

I agree with you to a point but are you saying that every man who forces his attentions on a women because she turns him on without meaning to is an un outed criminal rapist?.

Forcing ones attention on someone and forcing someone to have sex with you are two different things. They are only a rapist if they actually commit the crime of rape.
But I do feel like a man who acts inappropriate, does not chill out when the woman tells him to back off, thinks they can touch or grab the woman without her consent or invitation is a more likely to cross the line over to actual rape.

and if them 50% were raped i think they would see it in a different light.

reply to post by Dock9



Let's blame the terrorists

If you don't want to blame the terrorists then lay some solutions on the ground, the solution have been around for a long time, Westerners just don't like the solution...

Please share your solutions to thousand year old civilizations so they can advance also, but Westerners who criticize them don't have any solutions themselves.

Just go hang yourselves..

[edit on 21-2-2010 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


Exactly what proven "solutions" are you talking about? ..or are you just using this thread as an excuse to bash westerners?

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by oozyism

 

Exactly what proven "solutions" are you talking about? ..or are you just using this thread as an excuse to bash westerners?

Yes I'm, nice that you noticed..

Anyways..

I'm talking about the solution you guys dearly criticize everyday, what solution do you think I'm talking about? Make a guess, and I'm sure you will be right..

Check out the rape statistics in Western countries compared to others, then see which solution is more practical and which actually works.. Go do some research, I'm not here to enlighten a Western stuck up know it all..

sorry

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by oozyism

 

Exactly what proven "solutions" are you talking about? ..or are you just using this thread as an excuse to bash westerners?

Yes I'm, nice that you noticed..

Anyways..

it was very subtle.

I'm talking about the solution you guys dearly criticize everyday, what solution do you think I'm talking about? Make a guess, and I'm sure you will be right..

Burkas? They have not prevented women from being raped or abused.

Check out the rape statistics in Western countries compared to others, then see which solution is more practical and which actually works.. Go do some research, I'm not here to enlighten a Western stuck up know it all..

sorry

Yeah right.. in some "non western" countries authorities actually PUNNISH rape victims so rape victims would be too afraid to report report rapes. That and they need four male witness to even be believed.. lets not forget how some cultures "regain family honour" by killing their own daughters either. Yes non western cultures are so much more evolved in their attitudes in regard to rape.

Now how about posting those statistics yourself seeing YOU made this ridiculous claim? You are making it up as you go along.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by riley]

Rape is never the fault of the victim be it male or female....

Just my two cents

reply to post by riley


*Snip*

So you know in regards to statistics, and your excuse is that some countries punish the rape victims therefore they won't come forward.. It is not about coming forward, statistics can be done anonymously, eh haven't you learned that in school.

Now your turn to prove your claim, which country are we talking about which punishes a victim instead of the perpetrator.

I know that you know in regards to the statistics we are talking about, so why go through the hustle?

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2/21/2010 by semperfortis]

Oozy.. why are you here, posting in this thread?

Your agenda is off topic, by miles...

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Oozy.. why are you here, posting in this thread?

Your agenda is off topic, by miles...

Nope not off-topic, it is very on topic.. Think about it..

The rape victims blaming themselves for the crime committed against them, that being said makes the solution even more complicated to the problem of rape. And a suck up society such as the Western one will have big issues due to its lack of morality.

This lack of morality will increase rape in numbers and the victims will continually blame themselves, hence they already are as the statistic mentions..

The Western society is in a position where it can't even separate a sexual intercourse and rape, hence drunk rape accusations..

The Western society has allowed itself to reach this situation, it is no one Else's fault, it is the lawmakers, and the experts who are suppose to help a country for the best, not for the worst.

False rape accusations are popping up everywhere. So what is a society, such as the current Western one do in regards? How can they tackle fake accusations? It is just not possible, so what is the solution for it?

After all this thread is about rape and rape victims, what is the point of discussing this issue if we are not discussing to gain something out of it.

Are we suppose to just come here and say, "Aye I agreeee", or "Nai I disagreeee" and then bye bye... Get real

reply to post by oozyism

Are we suppose to just come here and say, "Aye I agreeee", or "Nai I disagreeee" and then bye bye... Get real

Where's your input? Where's your solution?

Your posts are not solutions, so far...

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley

 

Yup stuck up Western know it all..

Thats the 2nd time you've called me that. You really hate westerners don't you?

So you know in regards to statistics, and your excuse is that some countries punish the rape victims therefore they won't come forward.. It is not about coming forward, statistics can be done anonymously, eh haven't you learned that in school.

I did not make the claim that there are less rapes in non western countires you did so it's up to YOU to back it up.

Now your turn to prove your claim, which country are we talking about which punishes a victim instead of the perpetrator.

Countries plural.

www.nowpublic.com...
A 16-year-old rape victim in Bangladesh was whipped 101 times for becoming pregnant from her rape.

Her father was told, fined and warned that his family risked becoming outsiders if he didn't pay up from the girl's attack.

The girl was attacked, then married quickly after, not to her rapist, then she was divorced when her new husband found out that she was pregnant. She was raped by a 20-year-old man from her village in the Brahmanbaria district of Bangladesh.

Bangladesh's Daily Star newspaper reported that she was so ashamed following the attack that she did not lodge a complaint.

Source: telegraph.co.uk

The Muslim elders in her village issued a fatwa against girl insisting that she be kept isolated from everyone else until her family agreed that corporal punishment was the only option.

www.cnn.com... A court in Saudi Arabia increased the punishment for a gang-rape victim after her lawyer won an appeal of the sentence for the rapists, the lawyer told CNN.

The 19-year-old victim was sentenced last year to 90 lashes for meeting with an unrelated male, a former friend from whom she was retrieving photographs. The seven rapists, who abducted the pair, received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison.

The victim's attorney, Abdulrahman al-Lahim, contested the rapists' sentence, contending there is a fatwa, or edict under Islamic law, that considers such crimes Hiraba (sinful violent crime) and the punishment should be death.

"After a year, the preliminary court changed the punishment and made it two to nine years for the defendants," al-Lahim said of the new decision handed down Wednesday. "However, we were shocked that they also changed the victim's sentence to be six months in prison and 200 lashes."

I could google for some more but where there is sharia law rape victims get punnished. Thats how it is.

I know that you know in regards to the statistics we are talking about, so why go through the hustle?

What?! So you are psychic now and think I was just pretending that I think your claim is complete BS?

YOU made the claim now BACK IT UP.

btw. It's against T&C to post false and misleading information.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by oozyism

 

Are we suppose to just come here and say, "Aye I agreeee", or "Nai I disagreeee" and then bye bye... Get real

Where's your input? Where's your solution?

Your posts are not solutions, so far...

Read between the lines. If you can't be bothered reading then don't ask questions.. Is that a fair comment to make?

Read the discussion between me and riley, if he knows what I'm talking about then surely you will too.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by oozyism

 

Are we suppose to just come here and say, "Aye I agreeee", or "Nai I disagreeee" and then bye bye... Get real

Where's your input? Where's your solution?

Your posts are not solutions, so far...

Read between the lines. If you can't be bothered reading then don't ask questions.. Is that a fair comment to make?

Read the discussion between me and riley, if he knows what I'm talking about then surely you will too.

So you say something and expect people to reply based on things you have NOT said? Why are you not wiling to say what you really mean? Are you ashamed of it? I already said I do not know what you talking about and asked you to back up your claims. You have refused.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley


Interesting, the first case is fatwa based, how is that related to the authorities? You are talking about culture, correct me if I'm wrong. Here is where the article came from, www.thedailystar.net...

The second case is very famous especially when she went and met those individuals who supposedly raped her, how can we prove that? So the victim is as guilty as the defendants because she wasn't suppose to be there in the first place under the Saudi law..

Now back to my original point, we are talking about statistics .. As I said previously:

statistics can be done anonymously...

Now for statistics:

Here is where USA is on the table:

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

Here is where Saudi Arabia is:

# 65 Saudi Arabia: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people

And here is the countries ranked higher than the US:

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people

# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people

# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people

# 4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

Here is the source:
www.nationmaster.com...

UN statistics:
en.wikipedia.org...

Saudi Arabia law provides death penalty for Rapists:

A Saudi court has ratified the beheading and crucifixion of a young man who raped 5 children, among them a 3-year-old boy left to die in the desert, a newspaper reported on Monday.

Muhammad Basheer al-Ramaly was convicted by the General Court in Hail of the kidnapping and rape of four people, which took place in February 2009.

..

Saudi Arabia’s Court of Cassation has confirmed that a 22-year-old man, Muhammad Basheer al-Ramaly, is sentenced to death by beheading, with his body then to be crucified.

deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com...


Eh what else do you got?

reply to post by oozyism


Again... what's YOUR point in this thread, Oozy... just come here to argue some line that you drew between East and West? Where is the contribution to this conversation other than an attack? Did you even read the whole thread?



[edit on 21-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley

 

Interesting, the first case is fatwa based, how is that related to the authorities?

In some places there is no distinction between religious or government authorities. Religion IS the government.

The second case is very famous especially when she went and met those individuals who supposedly raped her, how can we prove that? So the victim is as guilty as the defendants because she wasn't suppose to be there in the first place under the Saudi law..

So you are both implying she never got raped AND saying she shouldn't have been there anyway.. nice.

statistics can be done anonymously...

Is that so? So why is it you are posting stats based on REPORTED rapes then and not anonymous ones..? .

Now for statistics:

Here is where USA is on the table:

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

Here is where Saudi Arabia is:

# 65 Saudi Arabia: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people

And here is the countries ranked higher than the US:

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people

# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people

# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people

# 4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

Here is the source:
www.nationmaster.com...

Nice try bud but you forgot to include this:

*DEFINITION: Total recorded rapes. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

Those statistics are based on REPORTED rapes not lack of rapes so your argument that "non western countires have less rapes because they have the solution" is complete bunk. All you have proven is a problem with under reporting of rapes in non western countries. I certainly would not report a rape to authorities that might whip me or send me to jail for it.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley


ZZZ I just posted that there is death penalty in Saudi Arabia for rapists, not for victims. Victims gets punished if they can't back their accusations. If you make such a big accusation which the result is death penalty then ofcurse the accuser will be punished.

My point was and is as stated in my statement which was, "statistics can be done anonymously... ".

I brought you hard statistics (Anonymous statistics are less reliable but if necessary can be implemented in situation such as these where the victims are not willing to go to the authorities), examine it. Your excuse as was before is the same, that they won't tell the authorities due to fear of being prosecuted also.

My response to your claim is in the first paragraph, that Rapists are given death penalty if proven.

Plus in a society such as Saudi Arabia it is harder to get raped because women and men don't mix. Get it? Maybe you should take that fact in to consideration when examining the statistics.

And if you think that people are afraid of reporting rape, then please go check out Murder, theft, etc statistics. Check it out, it might help you in your analysis of those statistics provided.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley

 

ZZZ I just posted that there is death penalty in Saudi Arabia for rapists, not for victims. Victims gets punished if they can't back their accusations. If you make such a big accusation which the result is death penalty then ofcurse the accuser will be punished.

Sometimes a woman apparently requires (at least) FOUR MALE WITNESSES to prove rape so of course she wouldn't be able to prove it.

My point was and is as stated in my statement which was, "statistics can be done anonymously... ".

I brought you hard statistics (Anonymous statistics are less reliable but if necessary can be implemented in situation such as these where the victims are not willing to go to the authorities), examine it. Your excuse as was before is the same, that they won't tell the authorities due to fear of being prosecuted also.

The statistics you posted were NOT ANONYMOUS but based on reported rapes.

My response to your claim is in the first paragraph, that Rapists are given death penalty if proven.

You claimed that you provided evidence that proved that there are more rapes in western countries that not. You did not prove that.

[uote]Plus in a society such as Saudi Arabia it is harder to get raped because women and men don't mix. Get it? Maybe you should take that fact in to consideration when examining the statistics.
I examined the statistics and it only deals with REPORTED RAPES. Given the harsh penalties you admit rape victims recieve if they can't prove it it is no wonder they do not report them.

And if you think that people are afraid of reporting rape, then please go check out Murder, theft, etc statistics. Check it out, it might help you in your analysis of those statistics provided.

I'm not going to bother checking more of your "statitics" out because you had already posted claims that have proven to be baseless so I do not see why this would be any different. Imo you are motivated by a hatred of the west and are just trying to post propoganda.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by aero56

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by aero56

I think there is less sympathy for a rape victim who is scantily dressed and participates in drinking or teasing behavior. Let's be honest, why do women dress that way? Why do women tease and lead men on? They know exactly what they are doing. So when they are assaulted, they are shocked??

Some women dress for themselves, some women dress to impress men and some women dress to impress other women.

Being a fashion victim is not an invitation to rape.

Perhpas being fashion conscious is a better way to go. Cleaveage, short skirts, tight jeans, all draw attention. All it takes is for one idiot to make a move to rape, based on the suggestive clothing. Certainly a woman's dress is not always what drives a rape. Many innocent women are raped. Rape should be punished by putting the rapist in an underground confinement so he/she never sees the light of day again. But, again, women do need to be more responsible in the way some of them dress. Let's be honest.

hey now, hold on a minute...
those tight jeans are the number one defense against rape.....according to italian courts!!!

www.rapecrisiscenter.com...