Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

Interesting how the last 2 posters have the same signature...and one account was created today....hmmmm...sorry just had to mention the obvious..lol

My thought on that is that when you are sexually assaulted by someone you know, you are loathe to report it,

reply to post by novacs4me


Amen, and amen.

When I was raped, I wouldnt tell my parents b/c I feared what my father would do. Sounds silly now that I'm older, but I really feared he would hurt the guy and end up in jail.

Lots of reasons women keep silent.

Originally posted by juniperberry
I wouldn't go so far to say that women are responsible for their rapes, but they do have to take some responsibility to ensure their own safety.

Either through not partaking in dangerous activities or (and) through learning self-defense.

These two things will likely ensure that the occurrences will drop significantly.

Anyone (women OR men) who does neither is just looking for trouble..

I think there is less sympathy for a rape victim who is scantily dressed and participates in drinking or teasing behavior. Let's be honest, why do women dress that way? Why do women tease and lead men on? They know exactly what they are doing. So when they are assaulted, they are shocked??

reply to post by antonia


back in the early 2000's, my older sister went down to south beach, florida for a weekend get away with some of her girl friends. she went to one of the many night clubs with said friends. while she was there, a guy offered to buy her a drink. she declined and she herself ordered her usual drink. she watched it the entire time it was being made. she is also a bartender, and therefore, it could be said that she has an expert eye. under that careful watch, her drink was STILL poisoned with GHB. within 15 mins, she was staggering around and was being "escorted" out the bar by the same stranger who offered her the drink.

the only reason why my sister was not raped that night was because one of her friends that she had arrived with had still not been let into the club. that is how soon and swiftly this attack occurred. the one friend that made it inside saw her being carried out with the guy and started going after my sister. the other friend still on the line started shouting at the bouncer that my sister didnt know the man and that something was wrong. her friends later said that there were people judging my sister for "being a lush" and saying things like "how tacky. doesn't she know how to act?"

it took two days in the hospital for all the poison to clear from her system.

my sister did everything right. she watched her drink. she went with friends (thank goodness). she didnt dress provocatively. she is just pretty.

apparently, to some creeps, if you wont give it, they will just take it.

Originally posted by Misteriosa
reply to post by antonia

 

back in the early 2000's, my older sister went down to south beach, florida for a weekend get away with some of her girl friends. she went to one of the many night clubs with said friends. while she was there, a guy offered to buy her a drink. she declined and she herself ordered her usual drink. she watched it the entire time it was being made. she is also a bartender, and therefore, it could be said that she has an expert eye. under that careful watch, her drink was STILL poisoned with GHB. within 15 mins, she was staggering around and was being "escorted" out the bar by the same stranger who offered her the drink.

THANKYOU! I have tried to bring this subject up a number of times and it's always ended up being a discussion over what she was wearing or how she was acting. Our culture is such that some people believe if a man gets a woman drunk; premeditated in order to have sex with her.. and he manages it thats her own fault for letting him and then it becomes regret sex. So keeping that in mind.. how often do bouncers watch actual abductions and dismiss them as one night stands? When someone has their drink spiked it looks exactly like they've just been binge drinking.. how many reported missing persons go missing from bars and clubs?

disclaimer. Yes I do think women should take responsibilty for how much they drink but it is not that simple and drinks can be used as weapons. I remember having drinks brought for me after I have said no and they have been placed in front of me anyway. I refused to drink them.. better to be called an ungrateful bitch than risk getting raped.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by riley]

Anyone ever heard of an eye for an eye? Rape is not murder and therefore does not deserve execution. Although rape is never right, in many cases most legitimate rape is never reported. A lot of the rape that is reported are the false vindictive cases that some have elaborated on in this thread. One possible reason for that 54% can be attributed in part to the polling of reported victims many of which may be lying.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by ISHAMAGI]

1,000 people??? That hardly seems scientific, thought I imagine the sentiments might be the same if more people were polled.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by Amelie]

Originally posted by aero56

I think there is less sympathy for a rape victim who is scantily dressed and participates in drinking or teasing behavior. Let's be honest, why do women dress that way? Why do women tease and lead men on? They know exactly what they are doing. So when they are assaulted, they are shocked??

Some women dress for themselves, some women dress to impress men and some women dress to impress other women.

Being a fashion victim is not an invitation to rape.

Originally posted by riley
Guys posting. have you ALWAYS had a raging erections when having an argument? I mean.. when you argue on this thread.. do y'all have boners?

No. In fact, quite the opposite. However, from what I read by what one4all was saying by what you quoted... he was saying he has never known guys to achieve a rock python while arguing/fighting. Funny question, nonetheless.
---------



Anyway... skimpy clothes are not an invitation for sex, like other people here have said. And that is not a strawman, for the person who was saying it is. A woman's clothing style does not mean they give permission, or even imply permission, for someone to just start trying to have sex with them. It is 100% the rapist's fault. Although, yes, women could learn self-defense and lessen the chances of being raped. That doesn't mean that if they don't know self-defense that it is their fault for being raped.

On that note, women also get raped when they're wearing average clothes.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Fangula]

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Fangula]

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Fangula]

Originally posted by aero56
I think there is less sympathy for a rape victim who is scantily dressed and participates in drinking or teasing behavior. Let's be honest, why do women dress that way? Why do women tease and lead men on? They know exactly what they are doing. So when they are assaulted, they are shocked??

Congratulations on being yet another person who prepetuates the falsehood that "some" women ask to be raped. Rapists everywhere thank you for making it that much harder for victims to go to the police.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by riley
We should be discussing how to stop men becoming rapists in the first place

Riley we have been discussing how to keep people from killing each other for ABOUT 8000 years and guess what, we still kill each other EVERY day...so the reality is NOT how to stop the animals from attacking, its how not to be easy prey. I wish we could stop the behavior, but the reality is, we cannot.

Burning witches only happens in a handful of places now.. and slavery is at least illegal. We can change behaviour.. culture has to change. Just reading this thread you can see there are actually people that believe some women bewitch men into raping them. You were saying skimpy clothes help a rapist choose their target while others believe skimpy clothes can create rapists. big difference.

You said it best, when a man makes you uncomfy or does a piggish thing, smack the MF'r and tell him to back off....just keep in mind, this goes back to there being animals among us...as admirable as that is, be aware you could smack the wrong man who WON'T take it lightly. So again, it goes back to just watching your a@@ in all situations.

Wrong man or not if a woman doesn't make a stand she'll get walked all over. Better to draw the line early than wait till things get really out of hand.

I only really advocate smacking a guy who is already a physical threat (threats, gropes, getting too close etc) as you dont want to esculate a sitiation needlessly. Measured response it best imo.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by riley]

You can't know what is or isn't going to set off a lunatic.Women should be responsible to dress modestly and carry mace. to not be in a place where they can't protect themselves. We have handed our country and our society over to people who don't have our best interests at heart. Sex and porn are all around our children and immorality is pushed at them constantly. How they get to adulthood through it all is beyond me. We can't have an ideal world because we let the Nazis run it. They own the political system and the banking system, the educational system, where gays are allowed to be teachers, they want gays in the military, a military that recruits women and doesn't protect them. Our society is a mess because Nazis are running it. There is nothing we can do about it because the Nazis have all the money. The reason they have all the money is because they have the FED that has cheated us and bled us and and are out to destroy America because they want to rule with totalitarian fascist feudalism. And this is not off topic.The hate us because they hate our freedom, Isn't that ironic.One of their favorite propaganda lines about the "terrorists" that they want us to be so afraid of is that they hate America because we are free. Americans only think they are free because they have blinded themselves to these Nazis. But these Nazis get more power from making us afraid. We hand them power by blinding ourselves to them.and what they are doing.If you think I am just ranting you haven't seen Shindlers List or read The Creature From Jekyll Island.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by m khan]

I guess a lot of people want to believe only lunatics rape women. Ask your female relatives and female friends if they have ever been sexually assaulted, and they will tell you, most of the time it is someone they knew and trusted. My husband and I have been honestly discussing this issue ever since this thread started. As he tells me, men are from Mars, women from Venus. In our youth, women would be looking for first base, a kiss perhaps, while guys were joking with their buddies about getting to home plate; scoring. Sadly, I think what guys learn in adolescence from their peers trumps the best efforts of adults to educate them on what is acceptable behavior and what is not. So here's a tip for those guys who think it has ANYTHING to do with her clothing: If she doesn't want to go to first base with you, she doesn't want to go to home plate with you. Don't jump the gun, and you won't end up in jail, wondering how it could happen to you.

Ok I'm gonna reply at the OP.

A probable reason why that much women think it's the fault of women, is that they have trouble accepting the risk of being raped. They believe in a just world, a world in which a person gets what he or she deserves. It's a way to cope with terrors, and everbody has those mechanisms, that work for a great deal unconscious. It's normal human behavior.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by -Thom-]

Originally posted by -Thom-

They believe in a just world, a world in which a person gets what he or she deserves.
[edit on 20-2-2010 by -Thom-]

I don't know that I understood correctly the whole of what you said, but I will definitely agree with this statement you made. It does seem to be human nature to, after something bad has happened to someone, to want to know what THEY did that caused that bad thing to happen to them. Once established that there was SOMETHING they did wrong, we can breathe easier, because we can resume the fantasy that it will never happen to us.

edited to improve sentence structure (I hope!)

[edit on 20-2-2010 by novacs4me]

Here are two little TRUE stories from my own life which convinced me women can't stay safe:

#1: I was on a plane, discussing faith issues with a rabbi. It was wonderful, until just before the plane landed when the old guy asked if he could kiss me. I assumed he wanted to plant a little kiss on my forehead. Wrong! He stuck his tongue down my throat before I could grasp what was happening. What did I learn from this? Being friendly can get you assaulted.

#2: I walked from my car to my apartment, and a guy waved from his pick-up truck, parked near my door. I waved back, and went on into my place. Next day, same guy sitting in the parking lot, and he waved at me. I got concerned, walked right by and into my apartment without acknowledging him. Next thing, there was a knock on my door. Because I had two people in my apartment, I opened the door. Here was the guy, angry as hell, because I hadn't waved back. What did I learn from this? Being unfriendly can be dangerous.

Here's what I do now: Make a thin smile on my face, and don't make eye contact with any man I don't know. I guess I am still trying to find a way to not be their victim.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by novacs4me]

reply to post by deadline527

Women can do things to lower their chances of becoming a rape victim, but that would require them to dress out of style, and act like a prude. Two things that are sadly looked down upon these days by most modern and trendy ladies. The women in todays age want men to fantasize about them. They want to be sex objects like all the women on TV. The only problem is, when that sex is coming from an unwanted, unwelcome source.

So true, the way some woman dress, as sexy as possible to attract the young good looking guys, but they attract the attention of all men, young and old, good looking and not. It's a double edged sword that they can't have both ways. Alcohol consumption seems to go hand in hand with rapes too.

It would be interesting to know what percentage amount of reported rapes take place with no alcohol or drugs. It's probably a very small number percentage wise.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by riley

Just reading this thread you can see there are actually people that believe some women bewitch men into raping them. You were saying skimpy clothes help a rapist choose their target while others believe skimpy clothes can create rapists.

Still mis-representing views I see. I stopped commenting on this topic because the total acceptance by you and those on your "side" to completely abandon logic for this topic.

I have pointed out many logical flaws. I have pointed out many mis-quotes. I have pointed out many mis-represnetations of views.

And yet none of you will respond to them. I have just accepted the fact that some of you are delusional and will never take personal responsibility for your own safety...and I assume you will probably never take personal responsibility for much in your life if this is how you treat your own safety.

Like it or not, dressing in a certain way, going to certain places, getting way drunk, or acting in a certain way has the possibility of marking you as a target for a violent crime. This goes for both men and women and not just for rapes...for many violent crimes. The intelligent men I know, absolutely know this and take responsibility to limit their vulnerability...of course there are stupid men out there that think nothing will ever happen to them. And there are intelligent women I know that take responsibility for their own safety...and then there are those (which I consider stupid) who refuse to take responsibility for their actions because they have this warped view that they shouldn't have to...that they should just be granted safety (same view as you and others on here). I don't get it...I see it as naive, arrogant, and quite honestly I find it sad.

Enjoy being the perpetual victim...should be a very confrontational life blaming everyone else for the problems of the world. I can't be in a discussion where one side decides that they will operate outside the rules of logic...so I'm probably done.

While it is always important to be mindful of ones decisions in order to keep yourself safe there is absolutely no excuse for rape, ever.

Rape itself has very little to do with sexuality and much much more to do with power and control.

They will find all sorts of ways to rationalize their actions, such as she was drunk, or wearing skimpy clothes, or teased me, she was from that other tribe etc... These are all ways to make their victim seem less human and lessen their own responsibility.

The fact that they are able to to have sex with someone who is unconscious or fighting, kicking and screaming points to the fact that this is not normal sexual deviant behavior, it is about power plain and simple.

There needs to be more education about boundaries for both boys and girls, and I think men need to do a better job of stepping up and stepping in when they see other men acting in dominating and inappropriate ways.

reply to post by novacs4me

So here's a tip for those guys who think it has ANYTHING to do with her clothing: If she doesn't want to go to first base with you, she doesn't want to go to home plate with you.

Since you just tagged me as a foe I might as well deserve it, lol.

Don't be naive, do you really think a drunk man really cares or even thinks about that. His mental capacity degrades with every drink, it also diminishes his code of morality, which might be quite low to start with. So in a atmosphere of drunken partying a woman's clothing has EVERYTHING to do with how a man will treat her.

I know it's wrong and unfair, but it is reality.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Blue_Jay33]