Funny how the Bible talks about most ATSers

Here is one thing that I know for certain,
In a debate, whether it be Christianity, UFO's, government cover-ups etc , it will always end up the same way, neither side will ever win the other over.

Respect each others decision on what they wish to believe. We should be adult enough to be able to agree to disagree.
But I do agree that there are Christians who try and shove Christianity/religion down someones throat. I don't believe in this myself because it is trying to force something upon someone who may not want to accept.

I do believe in God and I believe it is the Christians duty to present the message of HOPE...without force.
I believe that a christian should plant the seed(The Word), and let it be.
It is up to the recipient to decide what they do with it...They either take it or leave it. The Christians job is done. I believe that God will, at judgment show us where in our life time that we was given the message of HOPE /Gospel and whether we decided to take it and receive eternal life or reject it and receive eternal damnation. Do you believe what I just said?
You have the choice not to, and I respect that. Just respect my belief.

Does my belief make me 100% right? Yes, Only to me....
Does your Disbelief make you 100% right......Yes, Only to you
Its a personal decision......

Originally posted by Bilw85
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
2 Peter 3:3-7



I'm interested to see how many scoffers will add to Peter's prophecy.

It is too easy to make asinine predictions and attach to that a "prophecy" that people will scoff at it. For example I can "predict" that in the last days the sun will turn into a blue pumpkin full of fairy princesses and do so with 100% confidence that people will scoff at me and my prediction as well as anyone gullible enough to believe it.

All you've demonstrated is that the author of that epistle understood that people scoff at stupidity, especially when it is shoved in their faces. Big revelation there.

reply to post by Bilw85


A week or go or so, a nun told me that the world is becoming a more evil place. I then replied if that was true, why isn't Haiti rioting right now? Why during the the black out in the North East, that people got out and had barbecues with there neighbors?

You are afraid of the world that is becoming because it doesn't hold true to your beliefs. But the world is changing and in another 50 years or so, the morals will be updated to show the change. Until then, there will be people like you saying one thing, while what I see is totally different.

Well sir, if you want your good world. Support Mass Transit. Why do I ask you to support it? Because before we got rid of the rail streetcars, people where nicer to each other. If you want to see the decline in morals, just see it begin at the same time our cities started to tear up the rails of our electric Railways.

Also, If you don't believe me. Well the man who coined the term the Moral Majority, was a big supporter of Light Rail. After all, like me, I bet he had great conversations on passenger trains.

reply to post by Bilw85



quote; I feel as though the overwhelming attitude on ATS is very anti-Christian. It seems this site is full of people who feel that they are 100% correct on their Athiest/Agnostic/New-age/Pagan views. As I read most of the Debates on this forum turn to World vs Bible, I find it is almost always the Christian having to defend their point of view. I don't believe there could ever be enough evidence for some of these people>>


What I have noticed at ATS is that there seems to be many 'former' Christians who exhibit
a knowledge of the Bible that surpasses many Christians'. Could it be that it is the
very approach to the Bible, a literalist approach, that has turned many off? I have
read that once one is convinced that this position is wrong, one is more apt choose
atheism rather than a moderate, more tolorent Christianity.

A literalist interpretation destroys the nature of the Bible as a human expression of
devine revelation. Only humans speak words, the Bible as "God's word" has both
divine element ("God's") and the human ("word"). This form of interpretation does
not recognize that every word in the Bible, though inspired by God, has been
written by man, with the human limitations of man. The Bible cannot answer problems
that the biblical authors never thought of. The literal truth found in the Bible is what the
author intended in his times as a communication of the truth that God wanted for the
sake of man's salvation. This does not include scientific or historical statements that
are clearly beyond the competency of the biblical authors, confined to their times.
We cannot really understand God's real action in real history recounted in a real historical
document, the Bible, unless we know the history of that time, the historical authors who
wrote the document, the purpose in writing, the language used, the literary form of the
texts, the cultural presuppositions the authors had, the questions the authors were
addressing, etc. etc. If it is possible for one to understand the meaning of a biblical text
without understanding its historical contexs or the cultural nuances of its language, then the
historical and cultural circumstances must not be important or relevant. And if that is indeed
the case, then one cannot claim that God really spoke in human history.

Its not a question of 'World vs Bible', as much as a rejection of a particular brand
of Bible thumping. This paranoia towards an approaching eschaton ought to giveway
to a renewed evangelization concerned with social justice as opposed to the thinking
of the Jerry Falwell types, who urged the elimination of unemployment insurance
stating, "When the bums get hungry, they'll look for jobs." This brand of Christianity
gives true Christianity a bad rap.

Originally posted by Bilw85
Why are people so afraid anymore to hear about Jesus Christ? Is it because when we say "God" we can conform him to whatever we think he should be, but Christ was very precise in his teachings, he cannot be conformed?

Why do you assume we are AFRAID to hear about Jesus? As opposed to just annoyed, etc.? YOU are here complaining about agnostics/atheists/pagans/etc. I wonder why you are AFRAID to hear things from these people? Or are you just annoyed?

As our country crumbles mostly because of the loss of morals in this country

Our country is crumbling because no one is vigilant and socially responsible anymore. And no, that doesn't mean going out and trying to pack as many people into your church as possible. That means watching politicians and other officials and holding them responsible for their actions. Many times the same crooks destroying this country are 100% backed by the "Christian right." But you have an excuse for that too I'm sure. Everyone you agree with is always righteous, everyone you disagree with is always misled. Easy. Pretty much everything revolves around you, huh?

people continue to rationalize that we should liberate ourselves from this old religion and its outdated moral guidelines. Little do they know that our founders created our rights with an assumption that the citizens would continue holding up in respect the 10 commandments from God.

Not all of them. And that's why there are no laws mandating Christianity. Sorry about that. I'd go to war before I'd accept a Christian theocracy; it would be no better than Iran.

From the passage above Peter talks of scoffers in the last days

Imo he was talking about you. You are entrenched in so much religious dogma you fail to see a living light, unless you are allowed to call it "Jesus" and try to stick a bunch of other man-made nonsense on it.

most of whom believe the earth was old, and deny a flood(because it represents Judgement).

I don't deny the flood. But the Sumerians/Babylonians wrote about it before the Jews did, and their story was different and more realistic (Upnapishtim/"Noah" brought along his livestock, instead of 2 of every single animal, and other variations). Also polytheistic.

they would rather laugh it off and be willfully ignorant than know the truth.

And what makes you so sure this isn't talking about you?


The Bible has a lot of truth in it, but it also has a lot of archaic nonsense in it and it's left to the reader to interpret. And like many/most spiritual texts, there are many metaphors, that were NOT meant to be taken literally, and point to deeper spiritual understandings that transcend labels and organized religions.

Christianity IS outdated. All religion is outdated. If thinking your interpretation of a prophecy is being fulfilled, is what allows you to go out with only a whimper, then let your religion go out with this whimper. The people who survive coming years will be much better off for it.