Israel,love it or hate it?

I've been to Israel; Haifa, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Beersheba and Elat.
People: I fund that the Israeli people were overall well meaning and good people just like the rest of us. But after many conversations and questions regarding Palestine I realized something, the Israeli's really have no clue of what their government is doing in these occupied territories. That had no clue about human rights violations, oppression, restrictions and horrible things being done to Palestinians/Gazans.

But my opinion of Israel still stands, they are not a legitimate nation. They were stolen from the Palestinians and are now viciously oppressing the Palestinian people. I took many pictures from my trip there as I visited Bethlehem, Nazareth and the Dome of the Rock. If you saw how the many people lived in Palestine you would be mortified. We(Jordan) have hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees with nightmarish stories of the treatment they recieved by the IDF.

When I hear Mr. Obama and others talking about a 2 state solution it only makes me more angry because if they were to establish a 2 state solution Palestine would still be dictated over by Israel and would attack Israel to release their shackles which Israel would then take Palestine right back. So there are only to rational solutions; 1. They become 1 secular state governing over Palestine, Gaza and Israel, or 2. They give back the illegal nation of Israel back to the Palestinians and let them form their own nation on their own lands.

-Expat in Amman

[edit on 2/13/10 by Nightofthehowlingwolf]

reply to post by Pitons


I disagree as long as the other side is drawing lines and it could mean your life and pursuit of happiness you need to also draw lines to protect yourself. It sucks but it is the truth. We will never change the human heart will always want more.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Yes - humanity has many problems. Violence, greediness and such. Always trying to project their inner feelings on other fellow humans in order to deny the guilt, pretending as it is how the life should be lived. It is called ignorance based on ego. We have plenty of it around. Actually majority of humans never truly live. Sadly, consciousness is not there yet. But at some point it will have to change or otherwise humans race (of Earth) will be gone for good as not worth to exist in infinite Universe.
And we will judge ourselves individually – we want it or not no matter how painful it will be. And will get what we deserve. This physical life is not the beginning nor the end.

Main problem for me: They don't grant forgiveness. How can this bring peace? Never.... and I hate the haters, nobody else.

reply to post by Pitons


I agree but I am not so sure it will be man judging man. I think war will bring us all together or end our existence. It will be on or the other the heart of man is evil.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Not the limited mind (driven by ego) of the physical body judge the man. Physical body is only one of infinite fractions of ourselves that we experience. Today's average Joe is just too blind to see more and only cares of a nice car and hot chicks. This is his limit. This is the reason of his neverending sufferings in one form or another, in one body or another.

reply to post by Pitons


That was really deep and I agree you should be writing greeting cards with that kind of word kung fu. The I is blinding the we.

I do not hate Jews, I dont see the point. I cant tell the difference between a Jew and another white guy. In anyway hate is such a negative emotion which only sours the heart of the hater. Do yourself a favour and let go of the hatred.

There are a couple of things I do hate.
1.Being termed a racist or anti-semite simply because I criticise someone.
2.Using religion as a justification for occupation.
3.Apartheid
4.The killing of civillians
5.Racism
6.Elitism
7.Denying others the right to live.

Now, I come from South Africa, I am what you term a boer (white farmer), I see alot of parralels between South Africa and Israel. What I dont see is the International community responding the way they did when South Africa implemented seperate development (Apartheid). We had sanctions against us and huge international pressure and all we asked was for the right to live seperate from the black people. We didnt Build a huge ass wall to deny them access to water and arible land. And just so you know in South Africa the ratio of white to black is about 1 to 6. So it wasnt a majority supressing a minority. Im not justifying apartheid. Im just questioning why the different response? Is it International Guilt for the holocaust?

While studying for my law degree i took a course on International Humanitarean Law, and it is from here that I take my opinions on Israel. Israel is the biggest violater of International Law ever, they dont give a fk about what anybody else says. Anybody saying anything against Israel is labelled anti-semitic, even Judge Goldstone, himself a Jew, is labelled anti-semitic because he dares criticize the use of unreasonable and indiscriminant force by the IDF.

Secondly the blockade Israel is enforcing is responsible for the starvation and killing of many innocent civillians. The wall is against International Law but just dont criticise Israel for they are Gods chosen people. Whose God, their own God, One of the Gods of all the other religions? Then also expelling people from their land and claiming all the natural resources and slowly starving them. Blocking the roads so that even ambulances arent even allowed to transport patients to the only working hospitals.

They complain about terrorists but deny the people a legitimate means of warfare. If you cant get guns what are u supposed to do throw rocks? Unfortunately for the palestinians they dont have the backing of the United States to provide them with billions of dollars worth of weapons. In my opinion the US is just as responsible as any of the parties involved for the mess in the middle east.

If the Israelis are really Gods chosen people then God must be a murderous fiend,for no righteous person can honestly say that they are acting in any way befitting of that title.

Also using one of the greatest tragedy`s ever to occur on earth to justify your heinous ways is just as bad as the act itself. Using the holocaust as a justification for invasion and annexation is scandalous and evil.

In south Africa the English placed thousands of boer woman and children in concentration camps and burnt all the farms, allowing thousands of woman and children to perish from starvation and disease in their concentration camps and their scorched earth policy. All because the mighty British empire couldnt steal the Gold from what they thought were a bunch of backwards farmers, but when the fighting became too tough they chose to burn our farms and murder our women and children. But we dont bitch and moan about it and use it as a justification for war. No we bite our lips as we are discriminated against on a daily basis, while discrimination against whites is written into our constitition.

So I know what Im talking about when it comes to apartheid. Israelis are systematically wiping out the palestinians and taking their land all through religious justification and the International commuity sits back and support them. How about some equal treatment here ffs!

I'm Australian. I generally don't like Israel and I'd say my opinion of it is fairly hostile.

I see the Zionist regime as an existential threat to my way of life and am more than a little concern about what they are doing and might do.

I personally don't give a crap of Israel. Just like I don't give a crap of any particular country.... like South Africa, Jordan, Sweden, some random countries.

I have no particular fondness of Israel at all. What does Israel have anything to do with the United States?? Are they our biggest trade partner?? No Are they near the proximity of USA?? NO. In fact, they are on the other side of the globe.

In fact, Israel has nothing do to with the US. I care for Israel as much as I care for Zimbabwe, Finland, Mongolia, ETC...

I do not understand why the historical problems in the middle east over the JEWS and ARABS have anything to do with the average AMERICAN. SO GO AWAY

reply to post by saabacura


Israel has nothing to do with the United States? How ignorant are you?

If they have nothing to do with each other why is America just giving them billions of dollars and a crapload of weapons.

Climb back under your little rock of ignorance.

reply to post by Nightofthehowlingwolf

As far as Isreli citizens not knowing the conditions of the Palestinians I think this is possible. Do Americans know that over a million innocent men, women, and children died in iraq? Do they know that everysingle thing they buy at walmart/target/etc is made by slavery? Do they know that people die on native american reservations of starvation, and curable disease? Did the average German citizen know about the holocaust? The anwers are hard. SOme people do know. Most do not because either they do not want to know, or are unable to accept this is reality. Isreali citizens might be in a similar boat.
This is not an excues though in any way. I believe if you have been conditioned out of your ability to reason, or understand complicated issues you are in trouble. If your moral compass is so spun around by indoctrination that you cannot use empathy for other humans you are lost. This is not an Isreali problem, but an global one.
As long as humans are governed by greed, anger, vengance, and other emotions they will always collectively set up governments of similar fashion. Dictators do not rule because we got hoodwinked. Instead, regimes rule because part of our collective conciousness desires and demands it.
The idea of an abused child growing up to abuse another is pertinent for ISreal, and even for all humankind until a shift occurs.

reply to post by mamabeth


Although of Jewish decent I neither love nor hate it... I can't go round loving and hating a whole nation.. That would take to much time...

I don't love or hate my own country, something more inbetween is how I feel about countries..

"Cautious in my judgement" would probably be the best words I can come up with right now to sum up how I feel about whole countries.

[edit on 15/2/10 by thoughtsfull]

Love and hate are feelings I reserve for living things, not corporations and governments. If you mean like or dislike, then I'm indifferent. What I find objectionable are blatant violations of American law involving Israel that always go unpunished.

The Logan Act:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

www.stopaipac.com...

... the conspiracy involved not just Franklin and the AIPAC officials, Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman, but at least several other Pentagon officials who played intermediary roles, at least two other Israeli officials, and one official at a "Washington, D.C. think tank." It's an old-fashioned spy story involving the passing of secret documents, hush-hush meetings and outright espionage, along with good-old-boy networking.

Look's like the PM of the great white north ( Canada ) support's Israel too, according to this post..... Well?????






www2.macleans.ca...

I've never been to Israel. I don't love it or hate. However I do know that Israel is a largely free and democratic country with a sophisticated population. I will never endorse terrorism and so I will never support the Palestinians. I greatly prefer the state of Israel to any of the other states in the Middle East.