Is religion the number 1 killer of all time?

As is so often the case, the indominable George Carlin put it best.

I'm not an athiest but I still think the following is funny as hell.

Religion easily has the best bull***t story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he does't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.

-George Carlin

[edit on 2/16/10 by silent thunder]

Killing my friend,its all in the killing,you see without it the machine cant keep rolling,a built in safety mechanism,keep killing and religon is still needed,keep people scared,uneducated and they will always be afraid of WHATEVER YOU TELL THEM IS LURKING IN THE DARK.

No killing,no harming another sacred human life,not for anything,immediate eye for an eye repayment of your personal debt to humanity on a very personal level,out of the public eye.If there is an evil gene it wont stick around long.

Accountability to humanity as a whole must come before individual rights ,even the right to life.

Accountability means we are not trying to rehabilitate you ,we are operating on an eye for an eye basis,or as close a proximity as we can accomplish up to death.

We dont need a court system or lawyers anymore ,we have DNA and lie detectors that we know bloody well work just fine.We dont need judges to decide on the DEGREE OF PUNISHMENT A CONVICTED CRIMINAL RECIEVES,laws are defined as an eye for an eye on humanitarian crimes and and lifetime restitution for all other crimes.Just for clarity the rape of another human will cost your life,you cant repay what you have inflicted willingly upon another human,crimes against children are the same,death penalty--humanity cant risk reoffenders ,we are not trying to save devients to better humanity we are trying to WEED OUT THE DEVIENTS to better humanity.

Originally posted by djbj597922

Originally posted by Jinni
reply to post by djbj597922

 

If someone goes and kills in the name of "djbj597922" does that mean "djbj597922" is to blame?

Don't be stupid.

P.S. Just in case you don't get it - no religion sanctions mindless murder and tyranny that we have today.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Jinni]

No, but how many wars have there been because of religion, how many people have died because they are of a different faith then their murders? Deaths happen constantly because individuals use religion to hide behind the fact they are hurting other human beings.

But that doesn't mean "Religion" itself is to blame for this, at least not all religion -- does "religion" magically induce them to start hurting those people? No, ultimately it's their own free choice, though I'd say that sufficiently radical groups could nonetheless persuade them that way (e.g. ones with apocalyptic militant views or something). So it'd depend on the type of religion involved, too. If they use religion as a mask to hide behind, that doesn't mean religion induced them to make that choice, rather they made it out of their own free will quite possibly for some other reason, and then just abused the religion.

It seems people like to blame some sort of "thing" for some sort of violence -- religion, guns, money, etc. While these may influence someone or be used by someone to advance an evil goal, ultimately the final responsibility for such evil lies with none other than the individuals themselves.

Originally posted by Jinni
no religion sanctions mindless murder and tyranny that we have today.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Jinni]

Why sanction any murder? You say it doesn't sanction MINDLESS murder. So what kind of murder is permissable? In my book,none. How bout yours?

No killing,no imaginary gods,no external support for any religon,no fiscal power,a defined humanitarian focus,or you dont get to practise your religon plain and simple.

The only reason peoples backs get up when you threaten to not allow them to form crazy powerful religous groups,is because these religons have brainwashed them into believing that they posess some individual right that allows them to affect humanity in any way they choose and this is one of the most manipulative principals of any religon.Anytime any religon is willing to put its own survival above the welfare of even one single human life ,IT HAS BECOME A CULT AND IS NOT ALLOWED.

No killing,period,no sacrificing even a single human life in the name of imaginary gods .

And it doesnt matter how much good your false religon claims or even may be doing ,the acceptance of bribes of humanitarian goodwill to ensure the ability to grow in silence and become more powerful while hiding behind superficial acts of goodwill will not be accepted anymore,YES religons must be humanitarian and there are no concessions made in any other area to accomodate any religos belief that is not humanitarian in focus,no killing ,no harming humanity,your own personal rights are secondary to humanities well being,period,and if you dont feel that way you have been lied to or have subscribed to a false religon long enough to have become jaded.

Religous beliefs are not designed to be promoted and sold or inflicted on other humans,people must come to religons of their own free will,NO SELF PROMOTION BECAUSE THERE CAN BE NO FISCAL COMPONENT TO ANY RELIGON OR IT WILL BE DISALLOWED.

Thats right no preaching in the streets recruiting members because we are all already members of the only club that matters,the human race,there will be no advantage to trying to manipulate others minds by preaching your group perspective because we will all naturally share the same one without listening to false religons, A HUMANITARIAN ONE THAT IS GREATER THAN OUR INDIVIDUAL SELVES AND OUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

Originally posted by Jinni
Can you justify in the Bible where it says it is acceptable to kill and eat babies ?

1 Samuel 15:2-3

2) This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3) Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'

Oopsies! I'm wrong. They weren't commanded to eat the babies they aborted. So it's no problem.

Originally posted by Jinni
Can you show me in the Bible where it shows that it is acceptable to kill 1.5 million people for oil?

Genesis 6:13

5) The LORD saw how bad the people on earth were and that everything they thought and planned was evil. 6) He was very sorry that he had made them, 7) and he said, "I'll destroy every living creature on earth! I'll wipe out people, animals, birds, and reptiles. I'm sorry I ever made them."

Ok here god comes to the realization that he has made a terrible mistake which can only be rectified by destroying all living things in a violent temper tantrum. Oh! I made another mistake! He did it not for oil but to save face. DUH!! He has his pride you know. And it wasn't 1.5 million people but the gross over-kill more than makes up for that, no? Why stop at 1.5 million when he can destroy worlds?

Originally posted by KilluminatisRex

Originally posted by djbj597922
In the new movie "The Book of Eli" the world was destroyed because of a religious war. All the bibles were destroyed because people blamed the war on religious conflicts. And the main villain in the story wants the Book Of Eli because he knows the power it holds. He calls it the greatest weapon ever invented. He knew he could get people to do what ever he wanted as long as he preached the word of the book. I know its just a movie but it made tons of sense.

fakest movie script ever. and they are getting worse and worse.
first off even if they were to burn all the bibles, the word of the lord would still make its way to every man/womans ear. this is why the illuminati, and masons who want to be God, or think of themselves as god, many are Movie Directors producers and actors so they can push these unrealistic scenarios into peoples minds and make films to cause peoples minds to think in certain diabolical ways that would distract people from having a relationship with god, and becomming righteous in your works.

I am righteous in my ways. I just don't need some intangible figure from hundreds of years ago to tell me right from wrong.

Not sure how to embed a video so I will just post the url to it. If someone can embed it please do. I thought this scene was online with the topic of this thread.

www.youtube.com...

By the way, this movie was great IMO.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by djbj597922]

Atheism / Humanism is by far and Undisputably the most #1 killer of all time. It is the nature and logical living out of the atheistic worldview to kill the weak. Hence, abortion and euthanasia.

Since 1973, over 45 million legal abortions have been performed in the United States

from en.wikipedia.org...

and that is more like 52 million now.
So how many people died (not directly killed) during the Crusades? No one has an exact figure, but I have heard estimates of up to 1 or 2 million. So let's compare 2 million to 52 million. I think the stats speak for themselves. I will even do you all one better. World wide anual abortions numbers are 43 MILLION PER YEAR from here media.mcclatchydc.com...

So let's see...since roe v wade x 43 million...that's 1,591,000,000 Deaths. 1 BILLION

and let's campare EVERY modern war to that number
World War 2 - high estimate 72 million
An Shi Rebellion - high estimate 36 million
Mongol Conquests - high estimate 40 million
Qing dynasty conquest of the Ming Dynasty - high est. 25 million
Taiping Rebellion - high est. 30 million
World War I (High estimate includes Spanish flu deaths) - 65 million
Conquests of Timur - 20 mllion
Muslim Rebellion - 12 million
Russian Civil War - 9 million
Second Congo War - 5.4 mill
Napoleonic Wars - 6.5 mill
Thirty Years' War - 11.5 mill
Yellow Turban Rebellion - 7 mill
Korean War - 3.5 mill
Vietnam War - 5.02 mill
French Wars of Religion - 4 mill
Shaka's conquests - 2 mill
Afghan Civil War - 2 mill
GRAND TOTAL = 341,000,000
Abortion = 1,000,000,000
Atheism is the most destructive vile religion that ever was thought up in the minds of depraved man...and I didn't even count the euthanized!

Trueperspective,let me help you find a clear perspective.

You are counting military causualties I believe.If you include the millions upon millions of civillians killed indirectly NOT COUNTED AS A BATTLE CAUSUALTYS then I am afraid you lose all of the groun d that you thought you gained,and when you throw in the HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS THAT died of starvation,sickness and other global conditions DIRECTLY CAUSED BY ALL OF THESE WARS AND THE SHORTAGES OF FOOD ,MEDICINE,ECT. ECT.,and your battleship has been sunk and your imaginary god wont be walking on water over to help you out.

I mean you arent even close to the numbers of humans killed by humans in the name of false imaginary gods.

For Gods sake ,I was abducted and taken to the moon,but I am not stupid enough to believe in or serve AN IMAGINARY FIGMENT OF SOME OTHER MAN or WOMANS IMAGINATION!!!!

Nobody else would be stupid enough to sacrifice themselves in this way.

And I am sorry to torpedo you yet again but its so easy today,ALL OF THE WARS YOU LISTED,EVERY ONE OF THEM,WERE DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO RELIGONS SO THEY ARE MY POINTS NOT YOURS ,

REAL WORLD 3 billion plus

Imaginary gods world I billion


Game over,please try another tack that was fun for a few minutes.

I mean you could have picked disease as the challenging cause,but you would still lose 50% of those to religon because the religons back the government and invoke the people in Gods name to cause wars which cause global famines and global shortages of medicine and other critical items.And these things cause global pandemics of fatal diseases,therefore religon is the root cause of these global pandemic deaths --NOT THE DISEASE ITSELF.

Originally posted by trueperspective
Atheism is the most destructive vile religion that ever was thought up in the minds of depraved man...and I didn't even count the euthanized!

Atheism is not a religion or a faith. It is, by definition, the absence of theism. In atheism there is no god, no supernatural beings or origins, no piety, no dogma, no ritual or acts of worship, no temples, no prayer, no superstition, no afterlife, no flying terrorists, no belief apart from evidence and no belief despite contradictory evidence. I am an atheist not because I believe there are no gods but because as a critical thinker I cannot believe logically inconsistent mental constructs for which there is zero supporting evidence reflect anything real.

There is on the other hand more than enough empirical as well as anecdotal evidence to support the conclusion that religious rationalization in its myriad forms is obsessively and compulsively delusional and is therefore inconsistence with reason and simple sobriety.

The rest of your post is far too aberrant to respond to.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Lilitu]

Thank you Lilitu,my sentiments exactly,if and until I become an angel I will stick to the physicality of this particular dimension I live in called the Earth.

reply to post by djbj597922


I know that I really have no desire to hear a Christian tell me what they think, because it's usually pretty straightforward of a routine.

Get in to a subject, start to converse.

Christian gets scared and says 'what does that have to do with Jesus?', or, 'well you need to get Jesus'.

I mean...the ones I know do believe that anything that lives outside Earth, are 'demons'. But that's just a few people, so maybe it's not the view of all Christians. But these few are getting it somewhere...copeland, Hinn, dollar, who knows. It's not like I'm going to google 'copeland on aliens', though maybe I ought to. I am almost sickened by the whole thing, and I mean that in the worst way. They cannot even remember when they call you 'satan' at the top of their lungs. If one cannot be responsible for remembering their words, what the hell can they be responsible for? Then you have the obvious jew palin power play, which will certainly use Christ to prop up the military infrastructure, and that is why these same clowns are now starving us by strangling the economy.

They will be used by tptb, naturally, to kill innocent people, in lands far away, because we build great drone bombers these days. It's sad so much scary stuff is going on, but I see where the media are taking us, so yes, I have trouble with religion.

I pointed out that if ever I stop discussing what I am concerned with, that perhaps then you can call me 'satanic'. I just say the truth. It is easier, more meaningful, and much less complicated than trying to spread lies. I am watching myself turn in to a radio receiver, way beyond that, actually, and I know why. So instead of anyone trying to stop it, they buy more cell phones, build more towers, sprinkle us with more satellite signals, hoping to eventually get a smart energy grid which will bristle with radio signals....so that they too can experience this?

What does this have to do with religion? Well, try going up against a cult member with information. You will instantly be told you are satanic. They haven't a clue, really. It is stupid to allow this to become a serious debate. It just bores me, religion. Jesus could be here now, and they'd kill him. So instead we get the dilute version, rife with 'satan' name calling, jealousy, morons at the helm.

I think man is the number one killer of all time, so it really doesn't matter what motivator he used to kill. It would be really hard to pin point the correct motivator too since man has a tendency to modify any and all motivators to fit his personal desires.

Take the classic Christian Crusades; was it really a religious movement? Maybe to the poor ignorant foot soldier, but then even to him it could have been nothing more than a stabilized job to care and feed his family, but most surly not to the leaders of the countries that commanded it. To them it was all political towards their personal interests with very little religion coming into play. Either way though about 5 million were killed over a 600 year period.

Now when you look at a non-religious motivator such as Nationalism you see events such as 100 million killed in China as they pushed into the industrial age with their communism, 80 million killed in Russia as they pushed their very non-religious communism. Even Pol Pot might have only killed 2 to 3 million clergy, teachers, businessmen etc, but he did it in a few short years while using children to do much of it in a torturing to death way for many of them.

Genghis Khan, the Romans, WW I & II and other world events had very little religious motivation if any at all in those global events.

There is no denying that religious dogma has discriminate and killed people in the name of religion, but it really seems religion takes a back seat and the personal interest of man comes to the forefront on just about every event.

With real recent events we see the war on terror, and the Muslins in involved treat it as a religious event, but then we see situations of Muslins committing suicide for the cause even though it is in direct disobedience of the Koran. This is a great example of man modifying the religion to meet their own personal (in most cases) non-religious desires.


So what is the #1 killer here? I would put the blame on us the carnivore with just enough intelligence to make us able to do truly heinous acts, but also with enough intelligence to question his actions in the hopes of some balance in the end.

I think that you have a point because religion is good at generating us (good) and them (Bad).

We still hear the notion of evil being applied to enemy combatants. Then the winner gets to write the final history and to show themselves as good and the vanquished as bad.

Again if we look at ATS, the notion of religion as an arbiter of good and bad is alive and well which leads to conflicts and cyber wars at times.

I think your OP is great

Originally posted by Lilitu
There is on the other hand more than enough empirical as well as anecdotal evidence to support the conclusion that religious rationalization in its myriad forms is obsessively and compulsively delusional and is therefore inconsistence with reason and simple sobriety.

The rest of your post is far too aberrant to respond to.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Lilitu]

The question though is what negative or positive influences does religion have on the human race? This is a perfectly logical question since religion has been with us for a very long time. The other question is what does the lack of religion have on the human race as well, or could the human race be who we are without it?

Humans have this incredible ability to think in the abstract. If we didn’t have that ability we would still be using simple stones as tools at best, so what you are saying is you do not have this ability, or that you choose not to use it?

Xtrozero,you show me one single religon in the history of mankind that hasnt had a FISCAL COMPONENT OR CONNECTION OR POWER OF SOME KIND and I will consider your perspective,but as history tells us you cant find an uncorrupted religon in mankinds history,you better believe wars created jobs a couple thousand years ago just like today,but my friend there were ALWAYS religous maniacs "directing the powers that be or were" IN THE NAME OF A DIVINE ENTITY of one type or another.

You dont get off the hook that easy,you are trying to split hairs,religon by the virtue of its very nature and existance is directly responsible for ALL of the deaths you listed and as I said until you seperate the church and MONEY you will continue to split hairs.And religon will continue to be the number one killer of humanity starting with the first smart arse caveman who lied to another caveman about the imaginary GOD or POWER that gave him fire or a better food or 'LED THEM' to a better hunting ground or safe area and then PARLAYED that little bluff into a winning hand by becoming a PRIEST or a CHIEF,hence power,hence deception,hence the beginning of the end of this particular direction in this post.Because sooner or later some
other smart arse human figured out the scam and then one of two things happened ,either the first religous motivated murder in humanities history happened so scam artist criminal number one could keep his secret to himself or they became co-conspirators and formed the first religon and shared the power that their combined criminal enterprise afforded them.
You cant seperate church,money,or government and most of us reading and posting here already realise this,we try to find answers but we accept the reality we see.If you start off trying to negotiate anything with religous fanatics you will end up dead in the name of some god.

Well something to remember is that thereis a linkage between the established religions and the state. All of the religions of the book are linked to various states either by direct acknowledgement or via the personal beliefs of the ruling classes.

The former communist countries do not have such linkages but they are actually less than 100 years old.

In order to subscribe to any religous doctrine that exists a human must purposefully defeat or undermine many natural barriers that we have to prevent us from being decieved.

In other words you have to fool yourself.You know that funny little word called faith or rather blind faith.

Science killed religon thousands of years ago but money always seems to revive it.But it is like a zombie now,religon has no life unless we can keep the majority of humanity uneducated,and someone seems to be doing a good job of that.

Studies show that the higher your IQ the more likely you are to be an athiest,the reasons are obvious arent they??No disrespect intended but no kidding eh!

The only reason religon even exists today is because of the billions of lesser educated people who have been convinced to subscribe to these rediculous doctrines.People who dont have the education to understand cloning and DNA and the scientific facts surrounding life on earth or history in its global totality.The deception continues today exactly AS IT DID WITH THE TWO CAVEMEN WHO FIRST CONSPIRED TO LIE TO THEIR FELLOW HUMANS TOGETHER AS A TEAM OR RATHER A CONGREGATION.

Anyone who espouses a religous belief based on an imaginary diety may one day be held accountable for their crimes against humanity.

A whole lot of people better hope Daddy never comes home to check up on his kids here on earth and finds out the BS that has been pulled here,talk about religous persecution if a power just a little greater than the church showed up in say about 2012.

just some food for thought.

All religon ever offered humanity was deception,dont mistake a group of like minded humans for a religos group.Groups have always made all living things comfortable,we dont need deception to socialise in groups,we just need a common perspective,an honest one,this is the only thing wrong,lies were told and retold and retold,its time to disclose the lies and hope there isnt a global cry for a rebellion against organised religons.


Different religons are really just clubs with membership dues in the form of a willingness to subscribe to a common and supportive legally and fiscally defended group perspective.And in most cases people will die for their imaginary gods or rather REALLY EACH OTHER SELFISH ARSE.See we all know about the OLD BOYS CLUBS,we just couldnt imagine how old they really are.


Time to clear the air,time for a massive joining of all religons under a banner of disclosure and truth before the witchhunt begins.


How angry do you think the hungry and disadvantaged people of this planet will be when they learn enmasse of a deception of this size???If given this information globally and concurrently,HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BEFORE THE FIRST CHURCH AND MOSQUE ARE BURNING.

This is a serious issue and people are missing the point that THE CAT WILL NEVER GO BACK INTO THE BAG UNLESS WE ENTER THE DARK AGES AGAIN SO RELIGONS ARE INEVITABLY AND UNDOUBTABLY ALREADY DEAD MEN WALKING.