Is religion the number 1 killer of all time?

No segretation is.........
2nd


[edit on 2/8/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Hi Guys!

I am completely new to this so; hello and let me put this up for thoughts;

War is the number one killer of humanity (besides 'natural' causes; disease, famine..etc). We know that the 20th century has seen some serious mechanised war. Let's work backwards in time and see how many religious wars we can think of;

War in Iraq; fought over religion? No (admittedly, maybe the muslims won't see it like that)!
War in Afghanistan; fought over religion? No (refer to the parentheses above)!
Falklands War; fought over religion? No!
Vietnam; fought over religion? No!
Korea; fought over religion? No!
World War II; fought over religion? No!
World War I; fought over religion? No!
Boer War; fought over religion? No?
American Civil War; fought over religion? No!
Crimean War; fought over religion? No!
Napoleonic Wars; fought over religion? No!
U.S. war of Independence; fought over religion? No!
English Wars of Supremacy (Versus Scotland & Wales); fought over religion? No!
The war of the Roses; fought over religion? No!
The 100 Years War; fought over religion? No!
Okay, you get the picture...let's go back in this vein to Norman, Viking, Anglo-Saxon, Jutish, Roman, Persian & Greek wars. Were they fought for religion? No, they were fought for conquest, dominion and taxes.

Many of the combatants above may or not have been religious, but none of these wars were fought specifically over religion.

Religion is not the killer, man is; religious or not.

No. I think abortion is.

"Religion" or social religion is clearly used and abused by people for thousands of years. Religion tends to be a very strong core value for people so leveraging it is natural for the Worthless Eaters throughout history. Some organizations claiming religion, where clearly fabricated from day one for such purposes. Others get influenced because of a need for money and survival. There really is no such thing as "Religion" that can be stereotyped as bad or evil. This discussion seems to come up monthly at least. Faith is very important and everyone has faith. The scientist, the atheist, the "religious", live on faith. It is very natural and very important to the spirit. As I mention in another thread today, the real issue is we don't tend the garden properly. We take it for granted that it will be handled by nature. But, nature doesn't plant the garden, "civilization" is not natural. It is man made and must be man managed responsibility and that means everyone has to support it's virtue or watch it become what the few strong willed degenerates manipulate it to be. We are only at, what may be the beginning of an opportunity to tend the garden. I think it's been a very long time since people had such a clear opportunity with awareness about what that really means. If the opportunity does arise and with at least one hundred years of brainwashing, the question to come is whether people today will be capable of creating a real civilization or will they create a pig pen and believe with all their hearts they've made paradise?

Originally posted by Jinni
reply to post by djbj597922

 

Can you justify in the Bible where it says it is acceptable to kill and eat babies ?

Can you show me in the Bible where it shows that it is acceptable to kill 1.5 million people for oil?

.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: “I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt. Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation–men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”

Oh, they didn't eat the babies, so I guess it's ok.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Nevermind. it wasn't for oil, so I guess that's ok, too.

you have to think of all the holy wars in the middle east, the witch hunts,the spanish inquisition, and the mindless massacres done by the big 3 (judiasim,catholicsim, and christianity)all 3 of them have killed innocent people for pointless reasons...if anything why would you hide behind you religion to kill?

I am taking a "religions of the world" class this semester and in my text book it flat out states in the introduction that it would be irresponsible and misleading to NOT talk about how religion and violence are greatly connected. And not only that but a kid i talk to in that class brought it up before he even knew it was in there. So yea, I get where you are coming from. The crusades, 9-11...people do crazy things if they think it will get them into heaven.

and they're not violent but this thread reminds me of the westboro baptist church.

No.

Neither Stalin nor Pol Pot were religiously motivated.

yes

why? all the differences between nations are caused mostly because of different religions ... if everyone had the same religion, we wouldnt have that many conflicts ... for me its simple

I wont give examples, u guys already now the examples, look at the conflitcs happening at this moment ... you may say that the real reason isnt religion, but the people fighting believe it is ... if the people really knew the reason they were fighting, they wouldnt ...

Originally posted by stopthespam
I am taking a "religions of the world" class this semester and in my text book it flat out states in the introduction that it would be irresponsible and misleading to NOT talk about how religion and violence are greatly connected. And not only that but a kid i talk to in that class brought it up before he even knew it was in there. So yea, I get where you are coming from. The crusades, 9-11...people do crazy things if they think it will get them into heaven.

and they're not violent but this thread reminds me of the westboro baptist church.

yes

the REAL REASON is not religion, but, the people that have interests in the conflict make you think it is ...

[edit on 9-2-2010 by Faiol]

reply to post by inwardlydigest


well, off course the real reason is not religion as we all know, but all of the conflicts happening NOWADAYS and most of the conflicts that happened were stimulated because religion /beliefs differences



the religions are the big thing that separates some nations, and for me its clear that all of the new wars would be avoided if we didnt have that religion differences ...

but as you all know, this will never change since there isnt a unique religion in our world ... all because religion is a way to make us not think about somethings and live by "ignorance is a blessing" thing which I support and recommend to everyone

ps: I am not saying you dont need to believe that there is something higher than us, I am just saying its hard for most of us that think to take most religions seriously ...
its not because I dont follow a book as a way of life and as a way to make me different from another person that I dont believe in a god or whatever u want to call it

I'd lean towards alcohol being the #1 killer of all time.

Hell, without alcohol, how do you think they came up with these religions? lol

In the new movie "The Book of Eli" the world was destroyed because of a religious war. All the bibles were destroyed because people blamed the war on religious conflicts. And the main villain in the story wants the Book Of Eli because he knows the power it holds. He calls it the greatest weapon ever invented. He knew he could get people to do what ever he wanted as long as he preached the word of the book. I know its just a movie but it made tons of sense.

Originally posted by djbj597922
In the new movie "The Book of Eli" the world was destroyed because of a religious war. All the bibles were destroyed because people blamed the war on religious conflicts. And the main villain in the story wants the Book Of Eli because he knows the power it holds. He calls it the greatest weapon ever invented. He knew he could get people to do what ever he wanted as long as he preached the word of the book. I know its just a movie but it made tons of sense.

It was a good movie, sad its related to apocolyptic times but powerful indeed he went thru whatever he felt he needed to to KEEP THE WORD PASSED ON, GOD SOLDIER*


[edit on 2/9/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by djbj597922
In the new movie "The Book of Eli" the world was destroyed because of a religious war. All the bibles were destroyed because people blamed the war on religious conflicts. And the main villain in the story wants the Book Of Eli because he knows the power it holds. He calls it the greatest weapon ever invented. He knew he could get people to do what ever he wanted as long as he preached the word of the book. I know its just a movie but it made tons of sense.

It was a good movie, sad its related to apocolyptic times but powerful indeed he went thru whatever he felt he needed to to KEEP THE WORD PASSED ON, GOD SOLDIER*
[edit on 2/9/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

"God Soldier" is a true oxymoron!

[edit on 9-2-2010 by djbj597922]

Hundreds of millions have been killed directly due to religion.

Hundreds of millions more, perhaps even billions, have been killed due to the stifling of scientific research that could have saved people from starvation, sickness, and other causes of death, all due to religious dogma. It has prevented technologies from being developed and even worked to preserve the status of the elite, the wealthy, who are many times major contributors to their religious causes. An excellent modern example of religion getting involved is Stem Cell Research...

Yes, Religion is the biggest killer to ever grace our planet.

Of course religion is the number one killer.

anyone who says otherwise is wrong, and should die.
.....

NOW I sound like a religous man.

Religion is a by-product of human socio-political development so it cant be a singular cause.
Regardless of how many of those deaths can be attributed to religion; the real cause was in fact Man's need to control other Men.

We are a biological mass within a finite space with finite resources so it makes sense to me that as the size of our societies (and therefore sociopolitical hunger for development) grows; so will the amount of self destructive behaviour we have as a species.

Maybe it's just that Humans are pre-programmed to manage their own population levels through straight out survival of the powerfull ( fittest no longer applies as we've transcended physical might and now use long term cunning and deception in its place..)






[edit on 9-2-2010 by Jukiodone]

Sorry religion is the number one killer. Let's ignore the wars but what about the restrictioins put on by religion:

- I site Pope John Paul , someone who they want to canonise, how many people could he have saved in Africa from Aids had he allowed people to wear condoms; it's an absolute disgrace and travesty. Human Life is worth more

- How many people could have been saved from the Balck Detah if the knowledge had been available. of course in those days, only one book was allowed - the Bible and that was in Latin to keep the Priest in power (knowledge is power).

Religion is not a killer, corruption of it is. People cite the tragedies of the Roman Catholic church and I agree. What people don't realize is that the church was infiltrated by the Jesuits order (Jesus order). The Protestants separated from them so they could live in peace with the bible. The Protestants were slaughtered many times.

Ironically, the Jesuits were found guilty of treason and were sent to exile by the government. This order is around with us today. They hold many riches because they were sin abolishing men who sat next to kings.

These men would learn a religion or language and become teachers at it. They then would corrupt the religion according to their leaders.

"Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated."

(The Superior speaks

My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope. You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death. You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labours with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved". Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me:

**
I believe they are all around us today and control more then you think.

Originally posted by djbj597922
Just posing a question. And I think it deserves some thought. Think of all the wars, murders, fights, etc in the name of and for religion. I don't know for sure but I would say it tops the list of most deadly things on this planet.

Please don't attack me for this thought. But you have to admit it does kinda make sense.

Food for thought:

Top 10 Infectious Diseases That Have Killed Millions of People

1.Black Plague (also called bubonic plague) outbroke in Europe in 1347, when a boat coming from Crimea docked at Mesina, Sicily. Besides its load, the ship transported the pest, which soon spread throughout whole Italy. It was like the end of the days for Europe. In four years, this bacterium killed 20 to 30 million Europeans, about one third of the continent's population. Even the remote Iceland was struck. In the Extreme East, China dwindled from 123 million inhabitants at the beginning of the 13th century to just 65 million during the 14th century, because of the pest and the hunger.

The pest bacterium is transmitted by fleas and usually, the infection jump from rats to humans.

This catastrophe has not match in the human history. 25 to 50 % of the inhabitants of Europe, North Africa and certain Asian areas died then.

Knowing the cause of the pandemic helped: in 1907 an outbreak of bubonic plague in San Francisco produced just several victims, as the authorities started a massive campaign for exterminating the rats, while in 1896 an outbreak in India caused 10 million dead in 12 years, as the cause was not known.

2.Americas escaped of the Black Death because of the isolation. But when discovered, the smallpox struck. In 1518 an outbreak of smallpox in the Haiti island left just 1,000 of the Native Indians. 100 years after the discovery of America by Columbus, 90 % of its native population have died of smallpox. Mexico passed from 30 million to 3 million inhabitants, Peru from 8 million to 1 million.

About 1,600, when the first European colonists reached Massachusetts, found it practically uninhabited, as smallpox had killed almost all local Indians.

It is believed that along the history, smallpox killed more humans that all the wars of the 20th century together. Since 1914 to 1977 smallpox killed 300 to 500 million people. By 1970, smallpox still killed 2 million people annually, but OMS managed to eradicate the diseases through vaccination and in the last case was found in Somalia, in 1977. This was possible because smallpox transmits only from human to human. At the time of eradication, no effective cure was known against smallpox.

The first ever vaccine was created in 1798 by Edward Jenner and was against smallpox.

3. Leishmaniosis infects 2 million people annually and about 12 million diseased are found worldwide, mostly adult men. It is produced by a protozoa (Leishmania) that spreads through the bite of the sand flies (Phlebotomus).

The rest can be found here : news.softpedia.com...


[edit on 10-2-2010 by sherpa]

[edit on 10-2-2010 by sherpa]