China Foreign Minister threatened retaliation

reply to post by Manouche


I guess U.S. should had threaten retaliation many years ago for china selling weapons to Iran. Which later goes to insurgents who kill our men jeeze nice to know what side your on

Originally posted by Manouche
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

If China starts to be aggressive and making declarations like those of the respected member Rentor, I will comment the same way.
But China's declarations are moderate, sensible, intelligent and legitimate. The American arm sales to Taiwan is a new unnecessary provocation on an already tense global political situation. Threatening retaliation (it does not mean military) is the least reaction China could have. Lately, American global diplomacy is like that elephant in my room, every time he moves, I yell at him in despair.

Problem is that China say one thing out one side of their mouth and something completely different out the other.

Now, I AM a peaceful person who truly believes in no borders and that we are all "Children of the Earth", but when you look at their human rights violations, I can hardly call China moderate, sensible, intelligent or legitimate. With China using words like retaliation and sanction in conjunction with my homeland, you can bet your bottom dollar that my ears perk up and on full alert. Just as in nature, this old dog ain't gonna go into the night quietly. I (the American spirit) will not bow, will not submit and it will require the fight of a lifetime for the new dog on the block to become my boss.

Originally posted by Rentor
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

Of course! IRAQ was a threat too! IT HAS ALL THE BLOODY OIL

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Rentor]

And this is where the real rub with China and Russia is going to come. Alot of that bloody oil is contracted to China and contracts for weapons and more nuclear facilities to Russia.

A missile shield will not be effective against a launch from a ship sitting off our coast. Not designed for such a threat. Too close. The missile would be able to attain the necessary altitude very quickly, and that's all it needs to do. No travel time. For that matter, a detonation in LEO would take down the satellite network and render us deaf, dumb and blind as well.

I know it's hard for you to admit that technology has left gaping wholes which allow for assymetric warfare of this type. But rather than use the 'head in the sand' thing, I prefer to know what the possibilities are and respect other countries.

Doing otherwise has lead us to occupy most of the globe militarily and fight multiple wars against no one in particular, which has in turn bankrupted us. So yeah, let's keep doing this and then act surprised when we end up like the USSR in the 90's! And that's if we're lucky, considering that those peoples new how to feed themselves when the store shelves went empty.

reply to post by Aggie Man


My friend their are many different ways to do business in this global economy.

Lets look at two of them.

When China approaches a country to do business , they bring 20 or so envoys
with breif cases full of money.

When the US approaches a country to do business, they bring the 2nd Marines.

The only country on the planet NOT aware of this is , the US.

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

My friend their are many different ways to do business in this global economy.

Lets look at two of them.

When China approaches a country to do business , they bring 20 or so envoys
with breif cases full of money.

When the US approaches a country to do business, they bring the 2nd Marines.

The only country on the planet NOT aware of this is , the US.

Money earned at the servitude of their slaves citizens. Y'all have fun with this, I'm out till Monday...Oh, I hope this thread doesn't get too long....I hate the Monday morning "catch-up".

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Aggie Man]

I will not side with berserk and unthoughtful warriors.
You don't have to use the emotional arguments. American arms have killed too. More than often and very innocent people. Arm dealers want and lobby for global wars. It usually does not benefit you as an individual.
Because I dissent a bit, you think I am not on your side. But are you willing to listen to and understand my comments ? That's what China's foreign minister hints to when he says that one, two, three, countries can't decide for the rest of the world. It's a dead end, it leads to wars, no escape.


[edit on 5-2-2010 by Manouche]

reply to post by Aggie Man


no catch up needed, I mistook this thread with another.

reply to post by Manouche


Of corrupt government says nice and pretty things all the time what would make you think china isn't doing the same thing

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Wow...you walked into this thread and brought your own shovel!

This has been very entertaining to say the least!

A friendly nod to both Rentor and Aggie Man...keep up the good work...your wisdom of the truth is noted!

rgseymour

reply to post by Aggie Man


I understand what you say about your homeland. Drop this kind of mindset maybe... by understanding the views of the world around you. The US and its allies threatens all the time. You realise that ? This can't be the base for global relationships. Your patriotism is fueled and exploited to lead you to these reactions. You will stand up to your country without even thinking, your blood will speak, your first reaction is emotional, you don't analyse or reflect. That is the effect wanted. It's so ingrained in your mind who the evil is that it could save your life, you'll spit at its face.
You can be a very good patriot, care about your family, friends, neighbours, your nation and still disagree and debate your government policies.

by aggie man
I (the American spirit) will not bow, will not submit and it will require the fight of a lifetime for the new dog on the block to become my boss.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Yeah, Yeah, the Soviets talked the same smack. So did the Romans and every other empire, right up until they were BROKE and trying to sell anything that was left lying around.

The people who make these decisions are bigger than america. They took over america a long time ago and bled her for everything she was worth. They are interested in GLOBAL govt and control. That means that no country will be allowed supremacy, period. They will allow (even help) america to fall economically so that they can institute their control over the whole earth.

And if you'd like to kill some of your fellow men in other countries as pay back, that's just fine by them. They consider most of the worlds population 'useless eaters' anyways and they would just as soon conserve resources. So you see, as Oscar Wilde said, 'Patriotism is a Virtue of the Vicious'. And your new global masters can appreciate that.

Originally posted by rgseymour
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

Wow...you walked into this thread and brought your own shovel!

This has been very entertaining to say the least!

A friendly nod to both Rentor and Aggie Man...keep up the good work...your wisdom of the truth is noted!

rgseymour

WOW! You walked into this thread and brought absolutely nothing! Try and contribute something next time please, you're just taking up space that others might need for actual 'discussion'. Thanks

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

Thanks for your rude comments to a fellow ATS member. Your also taking up space.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

by aggie man
I (the American spirit) will not bow, will not submit and it will require the fight of a lifetime for the new dog on the block to become my boss.

reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Yeah, Yeah, the Soviets talked the same smack. So did the Romans and every other empire, right up until they were BROKE and trying to sell anything that was left lying around.

The people who make these decisions are bigger than america. They took over america a long time ago and bled her for everything she was worth. They are interested in GLOBAL govt and control. That means that no country will be allowed supremacy, period. They will allow (even help) america to fall economically so that they can institute their control over the whole earth.

And if you'd like to kill some of your fellow men in other countries as pay back, that's just fine by them. They consider most of the worlds population 'useless eaters' anyways and they would just as soon conserve resources. So you see, as Oscar Wilde said, 'Patriotism is a Virtue of the Vicious'. And your new global masters can appreciate that.

And when they do, I will also be fighting in that war as well

We'll the parting will be bitter sweet. But I am kind of glad this lovey dovey crap with china is over.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


You are histerical...

My comment brought as much content as your responses...no disrespect, but educate yourself before ranting abount issues you know nothing about!

I would love to discuss the issues, but my thoughts have been expressed by others!!! They know who they are...

rgseymour

but educate yourself before ranting abount issues you know nothing about!

reply to post by rgseymour


See, there you go again. What issues are you talking about? Ya know there is a reason for the rule against one liners in this forum. It's to try stop this kind of trollish behaviour where you come into a thread and basically say, 'Yeah, what they said'. There are stars for that sort of thing.

Why don't you star the posts you agree with and leave it at that? If there is something that you think you are better 'educated' on than me then please bring it out into the market place of ideas and let's discuss it. This, 'you go guys' stuff, while making snide remarks to those you don't agree with is immature at best. There are alot of people reading these threads who agree and disagree on a whole host of subjects, so what?

Reply to post by Rentor

How about not blaming some shadowy illusionary evil council for the failings of mankind in which we all share? It's the only way we are ever going to move forward.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Aggie Man


Come on folks, you can't fight a war on a credit card, especially when no one wants to finance you. aside from the obvious NO ONE WINS, regardless of how high and mighty some think the US is, broke is still broke!! and I'm afraid just as has happened in history, the soldiers WILL go home and not fight for free especially in another country.

The reason China, is not getting the respect they deserve is the use of totalitarian tactics against the people. Political dissent is crushed, religious expression is severely limited, people are imprisoned with show trials and on trumped up charges, and severe censorship of the press. If China would take an effort to allow those essential human rights to reach fruition, perhaps, people would begin to listen to them. However, that is only wishful thinking, because the one party establishment will never conceded power without a fight or struggle.

Remember, absolute power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. If they were so modest as he says, then his government would loosen the restrictions on expression, the press, and the internet. Will they do that? Absolutely not, because a people left in the dark are far more easier to control, than one privy to information. So, if they were so modest and understanding, they would make inroads to allow the people of China the opportunity for self-determination, rather than a one party determination for all.

Now, China is upset about the recent weapons sale to Taiwan? I say why? I looked over the treaty that defines the role of the US concerning Taiwan. The first treaty was more robust than the latter. Here is the first treaty known as the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty:

This treaty consists of ten main articles. The content of the treaty includes the provision that if one country came under attack, the other would aid and provide military support.

In the context of Cold War and the confrontation between capitalism and communism worldwide, this treaty secured the Republic of China from invasion by the People's Republic of China in the aftermath of the Chinese Civil War on mainland China, from 1949 until its termination.

This treaty was limited in application to the defense of Taiwan and the Pescadores only. Kinmen and Matsu were not protected by this treaty. Therefore, the US stood aside during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis.

This treaty also prevented Republic of China from initiating any military action against mainland China, since only Taiwan and Pescadores are included and unilateral military actions were not supported . . .

en.wikipedia.org...

When diplomatic relations became normalized in the 70's the old treaty was discontinued, thus becoming the "Taiwan Relations Act," of 1979. After reading over the provisions of the bill, it appears to be fair and reasonable given China's interests in the island. Here is some of it:

The act provides for Taiwan to be treated under U.S. laws the same as "foreign countries, nations, states, governments, or similar entities". The act provides that for most practical purposes of the U.S. government, the absence of diplomatic relations and recognition will have no effect.[2]

The act does not recognize the terminology of "Republic of China" after Jan. 1, 1979. It defines the term "Taiwan" to include, as the context may require, the islands of Taiwan (the main Island) and Penghu, which form the Taiwan Province and Taipei and Kaohsiung cities. The act does not apply to Jinmen, the Matsus, the Pratas or Taiping Island.

The act stipulates that the United States will "consider any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means, including by boycotts or embargoes, a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area and of grave concern to the United States".

This act also requires the United States "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character", and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan. . . "

en.wikipedia.org...

The bill even goes as far as, disavowing recognition of the island as the Republic of China. However, it does offer the island the right to purchase weapons for defense as a deterrent for unprovoked attack by the PRC. Essentially, it gives the island the opportunity to have a more level playing field when in the event negotiations are started and a hand-over to the mainland takes place.

China is upset because they can't use their sheer size and militaristic might to strong-arm Taiwan into making a deal. At the end of the bill it mentions the US strategic partnership with Taiwan, but only broadly. So, it is an attempt to keep the Communist Chinese honest, because they don't know what the response will be from the US if one day they attack with unprovoked aggression.

The Taiwan Relations Act does not require the U.S. to intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan, and the U.S. has adopted a policy of "strategic ambiguity" in which the U.S. neither confirms nor denies that it would intervene in such a scenario.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, really all this bill gives Taiwan is an opportunity for an equal footing in negotiations when they decide to join the mainland, plus, it takes away the PRC's ability to bully in such an endeavor. Personally, I see no problem in it. However, I can see why the CCP detests it, and that is, because it takes control out of their hands. The Chinese official in the article is nothing more than another politician with the keen ability to talk out of the side of their mouth.