This is to ALL Alien and UFO Debunkers

I have seen a rise in threads lately of people debunking Alien/UFO videos, just because they look fake. Threads are debunked with no proof, and purely speculation on that they are fake, or a hoax.

I am completely fine with people debunking the videos or images posted on these kind of threads, IF people post a reasonable reason why it's debunked. Post a link to a previous thread covering the information, or a video debunking it, or even a news article. You can even point things out in the original video or image to point out that it is fake. That means we can sink the wrong threads faster, and keep up the better threads longer.

If we have all of these posts about how it's fake, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read. If you aren't going to post good information, don't post at all, because then it just makes a thread cluttered with people who act like trolls.



Thanks for reading my little rant. I hope this makes some people think before they post useless posts.

I like this rant.

People who say that a video is fake because it "looks like cgi" or "looks like it's been edited" say so with no backing proof or evidence.

Taking that kind of stance, you could say any video in the entire world is fake/cgi/edited.

Like I could say this video is just CGI with added sound effects. I have no proof, no evidence, but where is YOUR evidence to say that it's real?



All UFO vids and pictures are just that-vids and pictures. Of course some are fake, some are real, but it is impossible to tell for sure without professional analysis. All should be met with the same dose of healthy skepticism; "That is a cool UFO vid- It might be real, it might be not, but I have no way of knowing without seeing professional analysis."

Speculation is fine, however to say that you are sure it is faked, and start flaming people who think it is real, is just being childish.

I myself have never personally seen a UFO, and I still can't seem to get my head around the idea that they are real; I believe they are 100% real, but it's hard to know what that means to me unless I actually see one flying over my house.

I think people have to 'debunk' for a couple of reasons...

... the first would be from sheer boredom, and a touch of immaturity, and the second, and the most widespread, is their FEAR. Humans are so fearful of what lies just beyond their senses, they will do or say anything other than confront the fear.

Just don't read those threads, they are silly. And the 'debunkers' are just biding their time ... they are sort of cute though!

Originally posted by Phlynx
I have seen a rise in threads lately of people debunking Alien/UFO videos, just because they look fake. Threads are debunked with no proof, and purely speculation on that they are fake, or a hoax.

It seems that you have this all backwards. UFOs haven't been proven to be real through any scientific explanation, or government disclosure(whether it be ET or man-made). When someone presents a video/picture of what they assume is some kind of spaceship, then it shows pure speculation, and a lack of evidence on their part. For something that hasn't been proven to be real, needs to be backed up with actual facts, or then it should be considered fake, a hoax, or wild assumption built by faith. So, when trying to study up on the UFO phenomenon, you should consider everything to be fake or a hoax, UNTIL proven to be real. See, being skeptical isn't a step backwards, but a step towards finding actual evidence.

If we have all of these posts about how it's fake, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read. If you aren't going to post good information, don't post at all, because then it just makes a thread cluttered with people who act like trolls.

And the same can be said about people who don't contribute anything to the thread, only to say, "wow, that blinking light has to be a spaceship. See, aliens are real". Those kind of posts are highly unpleasant for me to read, because it doesn't prove the validity of the video/picture, and it just steers people away from looking for actual scientific evidence. It's the true believers that clutter up these forums, and keep useless videos/topics at the top, while potentially burying legitimate cases, just because they want every video to be real, while using excuses of "open-mindedness" as ammo.

What most of these people are doing, is trying to get to the truth. And in by doing so, we need to weed out all of the videos that are potentially hoaxes, and stick to the cases that are harder to dispute. If we haven't even been able to prove the validity of actual UFOs, then we don't need highly susceptible footage, when we just need to stick to the good stuff, and it just happens that "the good stuff" only makes up about a good 1-2% of the videos out there.

reply to post by Phlynx




Well when people claim its Mog from Zog and tell you the type of ship its propulsion system the star system its from etc it looks and sounds like BS

Originally posted by PhlynxIf we have all of these posts about how it's fake, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read.

And in return we're going to have less posts about how its real, just because it looks like it?

No? Didnt think so. Its just as bad both ways. People are going to post footage and the thread will be going the usual way: "awesome!"-"hey look its fake"-"OMFG give us a reason"-"here, its debunked"-"yeah I totally spotted that"-"hey the original post is real!"-"dude its been debunked"-"yeah maybe its fake but COULD have been real, look at this unrelated footage its totally real"-"yeah that's awesome unrelated footage"- then the thread is used as a validation for other threads.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by Phlynx

 

Well when people claim its Mog from Zog and tell you the type of ship its propulsion system the star system its from etc it looks and sounds like BS

Most people don't say that it is an alien space craft, or that it's from some far of planet. Most people just post it up, have people look at it, and are open to debunking.

reply to post by Monts

My thoughts exactly. Anytime there is anything that remotely looks good, oh that's CGI for sure. Now I know some are, but is such an easy way out. Now I know there is a lot of people out there with video editors, but I cant imagine every single "good" video is CGI.

I always like to say, all we need is just one video or pic. to be real, but how can you really tell, can you touch the object, smell it, feel the wind woosh by?

So until one lands and either greets us with interstellar cookies, or vaporizes us all, THE HATERS WILL HATE. Sad but true.

Originally posted by Phlynx

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by Phlynx

 

Well when people claim its Mog from Zog and tell you the type of ship its propulsion system the star system its from etc it looks and sounds like BS

Most people don't say that it is an alien space craft, or that it's from some far of planet. Most people just post it up, have people look at it, and are open to debunking.

Then why are you complaining about people trying to debunk videos, if the people who posted the videos, don't mind "debunkers"?

I have seen a rise in threads lately of people posting Alien/UFO videos, just because they look like they could be real.. Threads are posted with no proof, and rely pure speculation that they are real aliens and UFOs.

I am completely fine with people posting the videos or images on these kind of threads, IF people post a reasonable reason why theyre reasonably real.

If we have all of these posts about how theyre real, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read. If you aren't going to post good information, don't post at all, because then it just makes a thread cluttered with people who act like trolls.

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by PhlynxIf we have all of these posts about how it's fake, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read.

And in return we're going to have less posts about how its real, just because it looks like it?

No? Didnt think so. Its just as bad both ways. People are going to post footage and the thread will be going the usual way: "awesome!"-"hey look its fake"-"OMFG give us a reason"-"here, its debunked"-"yeah I totally spotted that"-"hey the original post is real!"-"dude its been debunked"-"yeah maybe its fake but COULD have been real, look at this unrelated footage its totally real"-"yeah that's awesome unrelated footage"- then the thread is used as a validation for other threads.

I never here people say it is anything but a UFO, or an Alien, if it is footage of an Alien. Yes, both are just as bad, but I see more of the debunkers that offer no proof than anything.

Originally posted by TravisT

Originally posted by Phlynx

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by Phlynx

 

Well when people claim its Mog from Zog and tell you the type of ship its propulsion system the star system its from etc it looks and sounds like BS

Most people don't say that it is an alien space craft, or that it's from some far of planet. Most people just post it up, have people look at it, and are open to debunking.

Then why are you complaining about people trying to debunk videos, if the people who posted the videos, don't mind "debunkers"?

People don't mind debunkers with proof. Debunkers just spewing "It looks like CGI" are not what I post threads for, and not what anyone else does for that matter.

Originally posted by watcher73
I have seen a rise in threads lately of people posting Alien/UFO videos, just because they look like they could be real.. Threads are posted with no proof, and rely pure speculation that they are real aliens and UFOs.

I am completely fine with people posting the videos or images on these kind of threads, IF people post a reasonable reason why theyre reasonably real.

If we have all of these posts about how theyre real, just because it looks like it, it clutters the thread with useless waste, and makes an unpleasant thread to read. If you aren't going to post good information, don't post at all, because then it just makes a thread cluttered with people who act like trolls.

I didn't post this thread for immature trolls. If your going to resort that low to prove a point, you have already lost.

reply to post by watcher73

What kind of proof would you need, a water mark? I mean really how can you prove a video? Just as you can not dis prove some. Unless the maker steps forward with a video of him making a video, and some one videoing him making his video of his video.

It's a vicious cycle, this enigma wrapped in a mystery.

We have people on here who go to extraordinary great lengths to "debunk" any UFO or Alien thread.

Recently I posted a thread about a lady in Pennsylvania who obviously has objects of some kind that are constantly in the area around where she lives. Her neighbors and others in the area have seen them and filmed them also.
I made the post with the idea of seeing just how far some of these people would go to "shut down" the thread and divert people's attention elsewhere.

It did not take long for them to come out of the woodwork Not only did they attack the videos the lady made, they made personal attacks on her, and also on me. The kind of language and conduct I saw was even more abusive than I originally thought it might be.

That kind of behavior is not constructive toward the debate, it is obviously for some reason, a concerted effort to destroy any thread on the subject of UFOs and Aliens. Whether it is an "institutional" effort or just individuals with an agenda is difficult to tell, but it certainly goes beyond just normal skepticism.

I copy and pasted a snippet from a post of KARL 12. Hope he doesn't mind.

The following gives me enough anecdotal evidence to entertain any ufo video before it should haphazardly be discounted as a hoax or CGI.

In my opinion there are a growing handful of ufo cases that fit or partially fit the bill that is being described below and this warrants serious investigation. Someone who was privy to the sensitive info. the average skeptic would have no access to should and would know.

From a reformed skeptic who couldn't deny his ignorance with regards to ufo phenomenon any longer.

“On the basis of my official research and investigation into UFO sightings and reports of alien contact, I am personally convinced that intelligent extraterrestrial are visiting Earth. I say this on the basis of the data available to me at the Ministry of Defense, both in terms of the historic records and the several hundred new cases that I investigated each year.
There was a hard core of cases that defied any conventional explanation and involved craft capable of speeds and maneuvers beyond the capabilities of our own technology. I was particularly interested in UFO sightings that could be correlated by radar and in reports where the witnesses were military personnel; such cases were directly responsible for my gradual conversion from skeptic to believer.”
Nick Pope - Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994

I understand what you are saying. I am one along with others who uses research and software to try and analyze photos (im not good with video), and will present my findings/opinons. I also believe that those who claim something is false should back it up with WHY they think something is false. This goes for things other than UFOs (this fits any subject).

With that said....How is this request any different than those claiming a video is some extrateristal UFO without proving it? I see countless photos/videos of people claiming something is an [alien] UFO and never ever do any research, never analyze, and reject ALL analysis of those who try and find truth.

Your request, while understandable should be directed to ALL THOSE interested in this subject The claims w/out backing up goes both ways

And to be honest, I find there are more and more people here who are doing the research and using software to find TRUTH, than there are those who do a hit and run post with "fake".

Just my .02


[edit on January 31st 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by TravisT

It seems that you have this all backwards. UFOs haven't been proven to be real through any scientific explanation, or government disclosure(whether it be ET or man-made). When someone presents a video/picture of what they assume is some kind of spaceship, then it shows pure speculation, and a lack of evidence on their part. For something that hasn't been proven to be real, needs to be backed up with actual facts, or then it should be considered fake, a hoax, or wild assumption built by faith. So, when trying to study up on the UFO phenomenon, you should consider everything to be fake or a hoax, UNTIL proven to be real. See, being skeptical isn't a step backwards, but a step towards finding actual evidence.

Actually, UFO's are very real. Unidentified Flying Objects, that is.

Also, I'd take issue with your definition of being a skeptic. You shouldn't be considering something to be fake or a hoax as a starting point....or in other words, you see no problem in beginning the investigation with a preconceived notion, which adds bias to the data collection? Someone who is convinced every UFO is fake/hoax is no different than the person who is convinced that every UFO is real. Feel me?

Open minds, withholding judgment, action and evaluation without predisposition, these are the things which have propelled science throughout the millennia.

edit: spelling

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Elepheagle]

reply to post by expat2368


Mate, you're supporting a women who clearly has issues, you're supporting a woman who is filming herself pointing lasers at aircraft, do you not understand how irresponsible that is?

It's gone beyond being skeptical or debunking, it's highly dangerous and illegal, she could be sent to jail for 20 years for each offense. THAT's how serious it is.

And it's people like you who cry "evil debunker skepetic making personal attacks" who throw your support behind her encouraging her to keep doing what she's doing who need to man up and say enough is enough.

Otherwise you're just as bad as her and should be locked up as accomplices.



[edit on 31/1/10 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by Elepheagle
Originally posted by TravisT



Actually, UFO's are very real. Unidentified Flying Objects, that is.

Yes, anything we can't identify, is a "UFO", but that's not what I'm talking about, and I hope you understand that. We are in a Alien/UFO forum, and when talking about those things in this forum, we are always talking about extraterrestrial vehicles(ie. spaceships).

Also, I'd take issue with your definition of being a skeptic. You shouldn't be considering something to be fake or a hoax as a starting point....or in other words, you see no problem in beginning the investigation with a preconceived notion, which adds bias to the data collection?

Again, alien spacecrafts haven't been proven to be real, so therefore, I would consider other means of identifying an object that could be explained through man-made objects(airplanes), hoaxes(CGI, models, etc), or some other natural phenomenon. It shouldn't add any bias to my collection, as I am open to the suggestion of alien visitation, and hell, would love for that to be the case, but sadly, you have to look at what we know of our universe, then what we think is in our universe. Sure, I believe that there is life outside of our planet, but I'm not truly convinced that any species is, indeed, visiting us. I would love for that to be the case, but I haven't seen anything that would convince me otherwise, other then some fuzzy videos, and stories by certain individuals.

Someone who is convinced every UFO is fake/hoax is no different than the person who is convinced that every UFO is real. Feel me?

How so? I never said that I thought every video is fake, but when looking at it objectively, and trying to come to a real conclusion, you should look at every video as a potential fake, or a mis-identification, because there is no solid proof that these alien spacecrafts are real. That's why I said there is a good 1-2% of videos/pics that could be the real deal, but again, we'll never know, so it's all about speculation and belief. Just because there is a chance that 1-2% could be real, doesn't convince me that this is an actual phenomena, and that every video of a UFO is genuine, as well.

Open minds, withholding judgment, action and evaluation without predisposition, these are the things which have propelled science throughout the millennia.

Ummm, yes and no. But this is silly, as I think you missed my point. I believe in life outside this planet, but not to sure of actual visitation. I'm open to the notion, but hesitant to consider anything genuine, until we have physical proof, and by physical proof, I'm talking about actual testable material, not just fuzzy videos and stories. But just because I believe something, doesn't mean it's true.