Better Off Deadbeat: People Get Into Debt, Learn the Law, Become "Credit Terrorists"

There was a time when People who gave their word, Kept it. Nowadays, someones word isn't worth a whole lot.

I would be ashamed of myself if I borrowed money from a bank or a friend and never paid it back. I am proud of my credit rating and I feel good when I go to a Bank and ask for a loan knowing that they know that they won't have any problems with me.

The problem with a lot of people today is they have no pride and have no shame. They're not worried too much about their credit ratings and if they go Bankrupt, So be it. In my day, it was a shameful thing, to go Bankrupt. Today, Bankruptsy doesn't have the stigma like it did years ago. I don't know why that is.

A lot of the problem is also attributable to the lenders as well. Some lenders will lend money even though you have been bankrupt and half the time they know you will have a hard time paying that money back.

There's a statement I heard a few years ago too that doesn't help much. The statement I heard was :

You haven't really made it in business unless you have gone Bankrupt in your career.

What sort of statement is that?

I really wonder what the future holds for the next generation..

Today, I finally got around taking care of a Bill that I got from Verizon, my former cell phone carier. I actually had canceled my contract with Verizon months ago but they still continued to bill me because the associate that was suppose to do my cancelation probably didn't really know what he was doing. So I wrote a letter to the CEO of Verizon and it wen't like this:


To: Verizon


Regarding: Bill of $295.25 /Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX-XXXXXX

Dear Mr. Seidenberg,

I am willing to bring resolution to the above mentioned matters, however, in order for me to verify this alleged balance of $295.00, please send me one of the following:

Signed Invoice
Copy of a bilateral contract
Affidavit stating that I owe $295.00
Any other proof of a claim

Without any of these documents, I can not verify the demand to pay $295.00. You have until 01/30/2010 to prove up your claim against me or a default will be obtained. If you need more time, please let me know. Please be advised that I will pay the amount of $295.00 as soon as you or your corporation (VERIZON) provides me with any of the above mentioned documents.

Furthermore, you should know that I reject any and all third parties such as debt collectors, attorneys etc.

By not meeting my request, any further demand for payment is declared by me as fraudulent and will be resolved in a Court of Law. In addition, any entries into any credit report databases are fraudulent until this matter has been resolved.

Have a nice Day.


M.L.B.

If the debt collection agencies didn't break the rules they wouldn't be liable to be sued. Screw em, I say, good for him.

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by jaysconspiracy

 

The Little Red Hen, ever heard of it? What YOU do not understand is that the banks are all a fraud, you never borrowed anything but more debt.

Here's how it works, the credit card companies and banks give you cards, every time you use that card it produces a reciept, that slip of paper is sent to the federal reserve and they crank up the presses and print more money becuase that reciept was YOUR authorization to print more fiat currency. Understand? I didn't think so.

Here's another one, the definition of "closing" is that all business is complete, done, the transaction is closed. So when you buy a home and do this, the home is yours, complete. BUT, you signed a promisory note, you don't KNOW you did, but you did. This was a promise to pay the mortgage company your hard earned money, not for the loan, there was no loan. They put it in a seperate account in a bank. When you are done paying off the home or go to sell it, they send a letter to the IRS stating that someone put money into this account, they do not know who, but if in 90 days no one claims it, can we keep it. What do you think the IRS response is? and the IRS takes a cut.

I could go on with examples but I think you get the idea, I hope anyway. THEY are scamming YOU. You do not owe anything. When you were born, a Bond was issued in your name in all capital letters, a corporate fiction, and was traded for $1,000,000 to the federal reserve, so they could print money. See people never did figure out how all that money got into circulation. And guess what, the bail outs were because they had printed so much money from all the transactions taking place, they had to get rid of it!!! And guess who got it!!!!! There is a trust account in your name in the U.S. Treasury, it's call a Treasury Direct Account, YOU have to claim it!! It's based on your birth certificate and the serial number, your SSN is your international slave ID number.

When you claim your account, you write off all your debt, you have robably $15-50 million dollars sitting in there. You have been sold many times on the international stock market. Think this is all BS, read the links I provided above in my previous post, one is written by a judge for pete's sake. Many people knwo this and have filed. What are you waiting for? READ.

Look you and I could go back and forth on all of this stuff forever, but what you list above is irrelevant to the opinion I had. I hate the b.s. we deal with in this world and I agree with the issues you mentioned above. But that is irrelevant to the fact that its not ok to borrow money from someone, promise to pay them back on the terms negotiated and then decide you no longer meant what you said! I don't own credit cards anymore, but if I did I wouldnt complain if my interest rate was 24 percent just like they warned me it would be! My home loan is forcing me and the wife to work extra jobs to make ends meet but thats my choice, and I will pay as I've promised to pay. Again my point is to take responsibility for what you've agreed to do. If you dont like credit cards dont get them. Even if it matters to nobody else, I enjoy knowing that my word means something. And when I tell my friends or family I'm going to do something, they know I will follow through. I guess my collection department would be unemployed if everyone thought like me though

If this man is a credit terrorist than banks are market terrorists. They locked many people into loans which both parties knew they couldn't afford if the interest went up. Once the interest went up, guess who lost lots of money? Both sides, but one side gets to print the money while the other suffers.

Originally posted by Damian-007
There was a time when People who gave their word, Kept it. Nowadays, someones word isn't worth a whole lot.

I would be ashamed of myself if I borrowed money from a bank or a friend and never paid it back. I am proud of my credit rating and I feel good when I go to a Bank and ask for a loan knowing that they know that they won't have any problems with me.

The problem with a lot of people today is they have no pride and have no shame. They're not worried too much about their credit ratings and if they go Bankrupt, So be it. In my day, it was a shameful thing, to go Bankrupt. Today, Bankruptsy doesn't have the stigma like it did years ago. I don't know why that is.

A lot of the problem is also attributable to the lenders as well. Some lenders will lend money even though you have been bankrupt and half the time they know you will have a hard time paying that money back.

There's a statement I heard a few years ago too that doesn't help much. The statement I heard was :

You haven't really made it in business unless you have gone Bankrupt in your career.

What sort of statement is that?

I really wonder what the future holds for the next generation..

I agree totally. Great post..Call it old fashion, but I want people to know that my word or my handshake means its a done deal.

reply to post by dalan.


Not really. Finance works quite easily. There are debits and there are credits. Rule of thumbon't spend more then you take in. And always remember, there is a difference between want and need. Needs come first. My mother, a depression baby, gave me a good piece of advice. Watch the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves.

reply to post by daddio


I don't know if you realise it, but you probably just exposed the one of the lesser reasons behind the SCOTUS declaring corporations people.

4. Signatures of the Parties/ Meeting of the Minds (corporations can’t sign because they have no right, or mind, to contract as they are legal fictions).

By declaring corporations as people this statement is now void.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by [davinci]]

reply to post by daddio


Very interesting and informative albeit a tad long read(s)

Thanks very much

incredible thread and i love the guy who the stories about

i will absolutely use the advice the guy gives

i myself have had many altercations with creditors, even one situation where my mothers home was called and she was severely harassed i managed to be there one day when a creditor called harassing her, to be honest, if someone talked to my mother that way in person, they would be in a body bag, ever since i have wanted to get back at them, now i know how

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Don't borrow if you cant pay for it!!! Take some responsibility for yourself!!

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post, many people who get into debt could not forsee that they wouldn't be able to pay their creditors. I'm sure many would not take on debt if they had a perfect vision of the future.

You could lose your source of income tomorrow and not be able to get another for a long time, even forever. What would you do in this case?

I think you all should look into “Dave Ramsey” if you have not heard of him. He teaches a common sense approach to getting and staying out of debt. All you do is follow the baby steps that are laid out and there is no gimmick and nothing to buy. I listen to him on the radio all the time and its pretty amazing how simple it is…again no tricks…
Step one….stop using credit cards and vow to never borrow money again for anything!

Step Two…save $1,000 in the bank as an emergency fund

Step Three…start the debt snow ball:
List all debts smallest to largest; (with exception of a mortgage if you have one) pay minimum payments on all debts except the smallest and attack it with a vengeance throwing every cent you can at it. Once the smallest one is paid off apply what you were paying on that one and attack the second debt, and so on and so on…It acts like a snowball and gets bigger and bigger, and you can knock off debts faster and faster.

Step four… once you have all debts paid for (except the house) save 3-6 months of LIVING EXPENSES not 3-6 months of income…this is your fully funded emergency fund only to be used for an emergency!

Step Five…Invest 15% of household income into Roth IRA’s and Pre-Tax Retirement funds…(it is suggested that while you are working on the debt snowball you stop all investing and/or 401k’s…yeah I know it sounds crazy, but if you stop for a year or two of paying minimal payments into a 401K, once you are out of debt, you can contribute huge amounts of money to retirement which will grow much faster)

Step Six…Invest and save for children’s college

Step Seven…Pay off house early!!!

My wife and I have been following this for about 1 ½ years and we only have 2 small car payments and our mortgage. The cars will be knocked off very soon, and once they are we will set aside their normal payments into its own fund to be able to purchase a car with cash next time we need one.

The thing with debt and the above article is that, the man mentioned morally owes that money…he borrowed it and spent it making bad decisions. I will end up paying for it in the end with my taxes. With the way the country is heading it is very important to be financially secure, and you can do this program with any income….you just have to spend less than you make, don’t eat out, and get on a budget and make your money work for you!

www.daveramsey.com...

reply to post by revdrdrsunshine


Well, I'll be tarred and feathered and called a bastard politician, this man said it.

If the Government is going to "Bail Out" the banks with OUR tax money, then this is the exact way we should get our assistance, completely forgive our credit debts.

If that money was taken out of my paycheck and then Bush and Obama gave it to the many corporations like Chase Manhattan, the corporate giants, then I should be able to file a few forms and receive debt forgiveness, completely.

Of course the Federal Reserve is set up when certain key events happen, "Bail Out's" are lined up, and like pulling a lever, the trap door falls open and all of our cash empties out of the coffers.

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

If you buy things with cash you will never go into debt...so by taking on debt you are taking on risk. It can be done, you do not need a credit card for anything...you can use debit cards for anything that requires a card...i.e. hotel, and plane reservations. I know its a crazy novel idea, but I dont know about you but I hate credit card co's. and the way they have people brainwashed...heck you can even play monoply with credit cards now...what does that teach our kids. So I choose to boycott the CC Companies buy not buying their product. All I do to pay for things in cash is spend less than I make...I know another novel idea!...I know all of you will say..."you have to have credit to buy a house"....ummm no you dont...if you have a ZERO as a credit rating you qualify for the lowest intrest rates. morgatage debt is the only debt I dont have a problem with. With one exception...you should always have a 15 yr Fixed morgatage loan, and never an ARM (adjustable rate morgatage)...anyways just my two cents!

Recently I received a letter in the mail from a group of attorneys looking to collect a debt for the county I live in based on the allegation that I had failed to pay an electronic toll while going through an electronic toll booth almost a year ago.

The 1.25 toll wasn’t taken out of my account as for some reason the transponder did not register when I went through the toll booth.

Not my problem, it had batteries, it was in working order, and there was money in the account.

So naturally like any good ATS reader would, when I got the ticket in the mail 8 months later looking to charge 135.00 dollars for the 1.25 toll, I scrawled OFFER OF CONTRACT REJECTED on top of it and sent it back to the state.

A few months went by and I got this letter from a group of Attorneys claiming to be hired by the County who were now looking to collect a grand sum total of 317.85 for the 1.25 cent toll that the State’s own equipment failed to properly collect in the first place.

Like any good ATS reader would I realized this was an opportunity for me to make $317.85!

That was the penalty they were looking to collect from me, therefore it would also be the penalty I would be looking to collect from them. May the person who knows most about the law win!

Well that sure wouldn’t have been the 13 employees and 2 supervisors at the Houston Texas call center and collection agency that the law firm’s telephone number is routed too.

Understanding that all they were doing was looking to create a contract in which I would personally obligate myself to the debt by acknowledging it was a legitimate debt and legitimately owed, I began calling the call center looking to dispose of the matter.

Yet I would have to do this without ever acknowledging I was me, any details of the accused debt, anything that could be construed as it being legitimate by having to go through a small army of people who felt compelled by their employer to misquote the law and my rights within it and what I would have to do per their policies all the while having every word recorded by them in case of a dispute.

Each person who misrepresented the law and failed to disclose or worse still in some cases impersonating an officer of the court wasn’t just being recorded on their end though, but my end too, as I had a legal right to record the call if I consented to their legal right to record the calls.
So after about 10 calls I had enough evidence of fraud ranging from mail fraud since they weren’t hired by the county but were simply culling cases of the court docket and acting as bonded henchmen for a fee that was a gross misrepresentation as well as them instructing me I had missed my window of opportunity to straighten it out in person with the county (a complete lie) and that my driver’s license was subject to suspension as a result of my earlier failure to comply.

Added with the frauds of their employees I had quite a bit to put into a letter to the State’s Attorney General’s Offices of Texas and Florida, the Mayor of Miami-Dade County, the Clerk of Court of Miami Dade County and the County Commissioners detailing about 10 violations of State and Federal Law in their attempt to collect the debt.

The amazing thing was that the call center didn’t actually have the physical capability of transferring the calls to an attorney, even though the attorneys listed the call center as the only phone number to get a hold of them.

I continued to call again and again for several hours pretending at first to be confused until the phone representative would state something that was completely untrue and illegal, then I would read them the riot act, then I would be transferred to the supervisor, where I would read her the riot act again demanding to speak to an attorney.

My message was clear I will keep calling back and telling your employees about the laws they are violating and tying up their time until you realize its going to cost you a lot more money to not put me in touch with one of the attorneys than its going to save you by not putting me in touch with an attorney.

I of course refused to leave my name and number and within a couple of hours the supervisor of the call center was ready for a nervous breakdown telling me she had been sending dozens of emails to the actual Attorneys office trying to find out a way to proceed.

Finally after about 3 hours an attorney called me getting my phone number from the Caller ID.

When he like all the call center workers tried to tell me he could not speak to me regarding the matter unless I would admit I was the person on the letter or someone identified themselves as the person the letter was addressed to and authorized them to speak to me and identify myself I simply told him the truth...

The letter is addressed to a fictitious name entity that is a straw man and in fact is a complete fiction that doesn’t exist. You can’t speak to that person because that person is a fictitious name entity which means fiction. I on the other hand am a real person who has known the fictitious name entity my entire life and the only person who could speak on their behalf.

After I made him identify he actually was an attorney by giving me his Florida Bar Number I asked him if he objected to having the call recorded.

He replied he sure did and I laughed, he knew I had been terrorizing his call center all afternoon regarding the law and their many infractions of it and couldn’t afford having to get caught up in a conversation about it on tape.

I agreed the call would be off the record that neither of us was bound by anything said spoken which he agreed to.

I knew at that point I had him and I began to explain to him every violation of the law and he then tried to explain how each statute that was being used wasn’t being violated.

I explained to him that not only were things not being properly disclosed and were being misrepresented but that the statutes themselves weren’t legal, and went on to explain the basis in common law that made the statutes illegal and the mechanisms that would have to be used in contract law to make them binding and I was certainly not going to agree to the fact that they were binding.

I even explained to him that a driver was a commercial livery man, and a teamster, that the horses were the horse power in the car and that license was an agreement to break the law, which in this case is the constitutional law that doesn’t allow the state to impede or bar my passage from point a to b, and that through my social security number, and birth certificate I had been made a piece of serialized property on file with the Department of Commerce and congress was simply misusing its sweeping ability to regulate interstate commerce by making any driving a commercial enterprise since all driving included having passengers or driving a car registered to the State or Federal Government.

The Attorney was a former State Prosecutor for Florida and made no attempt to refute any of these things.

I explained to him just because most people could not read and understand what English really meant didn’t mean I was one of them and walked him through each word he was trying to misconstrue to justify his position.

Finally I told him as an Officer of the Court I was appointing him to resolve the outstanding issue with the County and that was not a contract between him or I but an obligation he had as an Officer of the Court who technically works for me as a free constitutional citizen.

I told him he had a choice, he could use his position as an officer of the court to make the matter go away and his law firm could pay me in addition 317.25 cents for my time and aggravation since they intruded as interlopers in the matter without standing or I would go down to the Court House and explain everything to a Judge while standing in the Gallery armed with the letter from his law firm, and the recordings from the call center and demand that the state pay me.

He tried one more time to talk me out of doing that and I simply said Rome offers you War or Peace it matters not to Rome which you decide.
He rolled right over then asked me for my transponder number and how I wanted the check made out and sent too!

Five days later I got a check in the mail from the Law Firm as promised for $317.25 cents and the County’s Web Site no longer shows the toll violation pending.

It pays to know the law!


[edit on 28/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy

Originally posted by Damian-007
There was a time when People who gave their word, Kept it. Nowadays, someones word isn't worth a whole lot.

Call it old fashion, but I want people to know that my word or my handshake means its a done deal.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. The problem I face is something most readers of this thread do not, an identity theft which has lost me my home, car, bank accounts, and credit worthiness. It was my fault in that I very much trusted an old friend, who was secretly gathering information for a big payday. I believe he was drugging me, got me into a hospital for 2 months, then when I got out absconded to Australia. Oh yes, and I realized that 2 years prior to this that he was responsible for setting up an attack on me in my home which left me with a skull fracture and double hematoma. But since I lived, he was real helpful finding doctors. Oh, and the failure of that murder attempt and the kindness he faked gave him more time to set me up for a final score. Police won't do anything, "can't" they say.

So my point is that Banks and credit bureaus are vast institutions who never hear what they don't care about, or just don't want to. You never realize how a damaged reputation keeps the chances of finding a good job, place to live, etc. out of the picture. I'd like a little justice but have to settle for less.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
I felt ashamed by giving these companies my word and then not coming through on my debt.

The companies don't ever feel ashamed about anything they do, why should you? They made the rules, it's high time they are held to the rules.

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by jaysconspiracy

 

When you were born, a Bond was issued in your name in all capital letters, a corporate fiction, and was traded for $1,000,000 to the federal reserve, so they could print money. See people never did figure out how all that money got into circulation. And guess what, the bail outs were because they had printed so much money from all the transactions taking place, they had to get rid of it!!! And guess who got it!!!!! There is a trust account in your name in the U.S. Treasury, it's call a Treasury Direct Account, YOU have to claim it!! It's based on your birth certificate and the serial number, your SSN is your international slave ID number.

When you claim your account, you write off all your debt, you have robably $15-50 million dollars sitting in there. You have been sold many times on the international stock market. Think this is all BS, read the links I provided above in my previous post, one is written by a judge for pete's sake. Many people knwo this and have filed. What are you waiting for? READ.

I'd like to know a bit more about this account myself. Such as...where do I go to CLAIM my money. It sure would solve a lot of the problems I've run into after becoming disabled; Social Security is worse than a cruel joke.

I do believe in honoring your debts, but I have two reasons not to feel any sympathy for these companies at all.

1. When I was paying more a month on my five student loans then I made in a month, I tried to get one of the three issuing banks to consolidate for me. Not one of them would. They would have rather seen me go bankrupt and lose what little I had then give up so much as a dime of their interest.

When I finally did find a bank willing to help, I went from $1100 a month for 10 years to $500 a month ($125 a week) for 5 years.

Same amount of debt.

2. Years ago I worked for ONE credit card company that had several CAPITAL plans for generating revenue. I only worked there four months before I quit: I was so disgusted by what I had to do for my paycheck on their behalf.

I couldn't get it out of my head 'What if I was the person on the other end of the phone'.

Here's my final straw...

I got a call from a woman who had a $500 secured card, which meant she paid $1000 out of her pocket up front to have the card issued. She had paid the bill to zero and then stopped opening her statements because she figured they were just confirming that her balence was ZERO.

Not so.

Every month she was charged a cardholder's fee for the right to access 1/2 of the $1000 she had paid in advance. Since she didn't open her statements this fee carried over, so she was charged a late payment fee as well as interest. When the balence reached her $500 limit, she was charged an NSF fee as the card was now maxed out.

EACH MONTH: cardholder fee, late payment fee, NSF fee and interest.

When I got her on the phone it had been over a year since she had paid the card off and set it aside for an emergency that never came. She was calling because she had received a vicious letter regarding an outstanding balence of $2400, all of it fees.

I had to explain to her that it was her responsibility...she had signed an agreement...we weren't obligated...

My very next call was a Platinum cardholder ($50,000 + limit) who was furious that his card had just been declined. He explained that the balence had been paid to zero months ago and he hadn't used the card since; he didn't even bother to open the statements because he didn't owe the company any money (sound familiar?).

Turns out that as a courtesy to Platinum members, if the only activity for three consecutive months on a zero balence is the service charges the card is automatically suspend AND THE FEES REVERSED. This was done to prevent VALUED clients from accumulating large fee generated balences.

After I finished with this man's call I took myself out of the queue for a couple of minutes because I felt ill over what I had just been a party to

'What if I was the person on the other end of the phone'.

While I sat there I listened to the 18 year old girl beside me talking to a woman about the terms concerning a $40,000 balence transfer she wanted to do to take advantage of the 1.9% intrest rate offered for that activity. The girl was in a hurry because her friends were already on break and she wanted to join them.

The company also was running a bonus incentive for whomever made the largest dollar value in transfers, and she was in the running for it.

She flat out lied when the woman asked if the 1.9% was an introductory rate that would go up later. The truth was that yes, after 3 months the rate went from 1.9% to 16.9% and stayed there for life.

Do the math, I did.

I quit 10 days later.

My point is these companies are dirty in every way and anyone who works for them long term is morally bankrupt (I still know people who work in these industries, and yes, I do include them in that statement). If you can afford to sue them they treat you fair; if you can't your f@%ked.

Let them burn, they deserve it.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by [davinci]]

Instead of a report, however, Cunningham found a lawsuit against him in his mailbox filed in May 2008 in Atlanta federal court. It alleged: "The defendant subscribes to and makes postings to a Web site in which consumers share information and promote litigation against the collection industry...The defendant has now conspired with others on the internet to incite civil litigation against plaintiff for the exclusive purpose of extorting money from the plaintiff."

Link from ex quote which it doesn't work since they don't seem to accept external linking. It's on the OPs linked article too anyway.

OMG!
They sued him because he was just posting on the internet?
If they can do that, why then hell can't they just be sued for anything people can come up to sue them. Fair game.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by spacebot]