Obama wants to out our military!

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I find myself agreeing with you most of the time BH but not on this one. There is nothing more important in the military than unit cohesion. These guys eat, sleep, shower, fight and die in very close proximity to each other. The LAST thing our fighting men need to be doing is wondering WTH the soldier next to him is thinking.
I don't believe in having women in combat nor men who are openly homosexual. If they can hide it, fine. Otherwise, no.
I'm not homophobic nor do I serve in the military.
Respectfully disagreeing with you on this though.

Agree 100%. It would completely undermine a unit/platoons feeling of unity, which is of utmost importance in war.
This is a very bad idea on so many levels.

Originally posted by Moonman1111

Originally posted by MajesticJax

Originally posted by Sf18443
Fox news has just reported that Obama, in tonight's state of the union speech, will as congress to repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the US military.

Look, I have extensive hetero credentials, but really, what's the big deal? Our military should be made up of the cross-section of our society, and homosexuals are a part of it. My problem lies when they want to force the exposure to homosexuality on our pre-pubescent chidren, (as in presenting that "lifestyle" in school, books, etc, to children 12 or so and under). THAT is wrong.

Other than that, I don't care who Sgt. Jones blows in his off-time, as long as he follows his orders while delivering on his promise to protect the tenets of the Constitution.

STD's/HIV is the big problem if our military let nancy boys openly join. not to mention all the foolish deviant behavior that would go on in the shower room and after lights out. Plus, I think the majority of soldiers would be uncomfortable sharing close living quarters with a homosexual, I know I would.

Are you kidding?? Do you think that just because there are gay soldiers, that they are more likely to carry STD's and HIV?? That is just silly thinking my friend.

I think the "Don't ask Don't tell" policy is stupid anyways and I hope Obama does repeal it. If a person is willing to serve their country, then I don't think that person's sexuality should make any difference in any way shape or form. Actually, scratch that. A person's sexuality should never be a factor in anything.

To all the fans of devient behavior: Don't get your hopes up! It's called throwing a bone, and that is exactly what he did. He threw the same bone out to the people who wanted Club Gitmo closed. His 1 year deadline passed and it is still open. At least he didn't put a deadline on this. Looks like he is learning a bit from his on the job training.

What if we are on the verge of a major war and they have to reinstate THE DRAFT?

They can't afford people being able to DODGE the draft by simply claiming they are gay.

This might be why they want to get rid of the don't ask don't tell policy and allow gays to openly serve. No more gay draft dodgers. Loophole closed.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Thank you for understanding words and taking the time to explain your point of view.

I stand by Qualifications and Abilities and Attitude - not gender. There are many men who I do not feel are fully equipped mentally/emotionally/sensitivity/physically to go to war. In times of draft - - these men were forced to go to war - - because they were men. Because of their gender.

Do you really think women/moms/children/wives etc - - want to send their male loved ones off to war? Don't you think many of them feel the same way you feel about protecting women?

I'm sorry but it is sexist and archaic thinking.

And yes - you are saying "women are the cause of men behaving badly".

As a woman - - I am so sick of men being pathetic because they can't control themselves around females. Human nature vs Brain function. Little Head vs Big Head.

Now with the possibility of openly gays/lesbians - - do they also need to be separated into their own units?

A SOLDIER IS A SOLDIER IS A SOLDIER - - - or should be.

I'm not saying women should be forced into front line combat. But I know there are some women who want it. They want equality - which also means equal pay - - pay can be higher in more dangerous assignments.

I don't think our society will allow women to be forced into front line combat. But those women who choose it should not be denied because men want to protect them.

And for the big guys who are threatened by the possibility of having a gay guy in your unit (pun not intended!)....

You know that really good looking woman you see in the club? The perfect ten with the amazing smile, that you can't get near because she doesn't find you attractive?
Well, the gay guy standing next to her probably doesn't find you attractive either...

Get over yourself. You're not such a catch and Mr. Gay Guy probably doesn't have any thoughts other than when is chow time.

Originally posted by Badgered1
And for the big guys who are threatened by the possibility of having a gay guy in your unit (pun not intended!)....

Exactly. If ANYONE is a "nancy boy", it's the man who's scared to death and can't handle it because he imagines that some other guy is looking at his bottom.

To Asktheanimals... It's a matter of true respect for women. I understand how you feel. I really do. But there are things in life we have to "get past" and men thinking that they have to protect women is one if them.

reply to post by Moonman1111

STD's/HIV is the big problem if our military let nancy boys openly join

I can't believe you actually used the term Nancy boys !!!

You ever asked yourself why the word that begins with N is considered offensive ? Are you 12 ?

So, its okay for gays to serve, as long as they live in denial of who they are?

I say good job to President Obama. Its about time we move passed federal sanctioned discrimination.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
I think the majority of soldiers would be uncomfortable sharing close living quarters with a homosexual, I know I would.

nah, just the homophobes.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
I think the majority of soldiers would be uncomfortable sharing close living quarters with a homosexual, I know I would.

Odd. None of the "pucker zones" I've ever been subjected too were the result of someone standing behind me? ... nor anyone looking to extend a reach-around, either ... for that matter.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

So, its okay for gays to serve, as long as they live in denial of who they are?

Unfortunately, that's the status of things as they stand today. Hopefully, someday in the near future that'll change. We can hope for that, and work for it, too.

One of my good friends whom was gay and served with the marines and later the National Guard died while in combat in Iraq. It was so odd being uninvited to his funeral by his family due to the military policies because they didn't want his reputation as a hero to be tarnished. It was as if his military life and home life were two different people.

This is why I am so puzzled about hypocrisy in this country. We are here, always were. There were always gays in the military. I know seven personally that are serving. It is like parents screaming in town hall that they don't want sex education or watering down terminology while their teenage daughter is walking around pop bellied and pregnant.




[edit on 28/1/10 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by Annee


I suppose my view has always been since men start wars they should be the ones to fight it. Of course women are equally protective of men (this world would SUCK if they didn't).
If women really want to fight that's fine, they should have equal opportunity (I don;t consider getting shot at an "opportunity" but W.E.).

Down to the real reason men act stupid around women is biological. The urges within a man's body regarding sex are different from women's and (here I go again) I woulde contend are more intense. Like the difference between wanting a snack and being starving. Little head vs big as you said but little head has more nerves than say a baby snake
The protective urge in men could also be a problem under stressful situations.
War sucks, we should do much better at avoiding than we have. My country has lost more respect for that than anyhting, especially from me.
I do believe in equal opportunity for all, so yeah everyone can get in on the shooting if they really want but I would like to see them in separate units for pragmatic entirely reasons. I'm not going to go on about how many gay friends I have blah blah but being an artist for 35 years , uh you can figu.......
Thanks for taking the time to chat and help me understand a different viewpoint than my own. I'm an old fart pretty stuck in my ways, thanks for the traction Annee

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Annee

 

I suppose my view has always been since men start wars they should be the ones to fight it. Of course women are equally protective of men (this world would SUCK if they didn't).

Well not exactly. Men do not start wars - - politicians (kings/queens) do.

Wars are about power/control/money - and I suppose ideology.

I was researching queen rulers once and discovered there were far more female rulers then Hollywood would have you believe.

Do you really believe the average man chooses to go to war rather then stay home with his family? Man had no choice - - society and defined roles in past times forced man into this role. And women into their role.

--------------------------

Did you know one of the most well known notorious pirates was a woman? Of course she dressed as a man. Actually there were several known women pirates. Women deserve choice.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Down to the real reason men act stupid around women is biological.

Thanks for taking the time to chat and help me understand a different viewpoint than my own. I'm an old fart pretty stuck in my ways, thanks for the traction Annee

--------------------------------------------

Well speaking of old farts - how 'bout old biddy? (I think it sounds funny - it makes me laugh). I am 63 and raised 2 daughters. You see my pic in my avatar? Do I look like a woman who wants to hang out on the front lines?

FIRST - to stay on topic. As far as gays/lesbians in the military - - I think its more of unfamiliarity. IMO - most people who object to gays/lesbians - - don't really know any. I don't mean acquaintance or "I work with one" - - I mean KNOW - as in a close friend or family member.

People are People - - there is diversity in ALL groups. Pointing out stereotypes or stereotypical behavior is just that.

A SOLDIER IS A SOLDIER IS A SOLDIER. I don't care about biological traits.

As a woman hearing "Men can't help themselves" - - is non-acceptable. It is an excuse - plain and simple. I am not saying men don't have strong natural urges - - but I am saying any excuse for not controlling them is an excuse.

Originally posted by Annee

As a woman hearing "Men can't help themselves" - - is non-acceptable. It is an excuse - plain and simple. I am not saying men don't have strong natural urges - - but I am saying any excuse for not controlling them is an excuse.

Maybe you're right about that. I do know a lot of ex-military and I suppose I;ve allowed their views to rub off on me. My views on gay/lesbians in the military is NOT based on personal relationships but more on tradition I suppose.
Our best friends are a lesbian couple down the street who are an absolute riot - one is a social worker and her partner is a comedian (actual stand up routine). We're moving soon and I am going to miss them so much even though Robyn (the comic) is very high maintenance. We went to an anti-war rally 2 years ago and she got herself arrested. Consequently we spent all night driving around DC trying to find the Capitol police jail (which the cops seemingly have fun telling people where it ISN'T). Many more stories like that.
I've been married twice and I thought I knew women's views (at least ones around my age). you're an eye-opener Annee.
Thanks for your replies, they were quite refreshing actually

Originally posted by KANDINSKI
there are tons of closeted gays in every job,nobody would ever know.The emotional dragnet of this topic is engulfing me.

yes but they don't shower in front of them in those jobs do they?

Everytime don't ask don't tell topic comes up irrelevant analogies pop up.
happens everytime

I don't think I would care.

Frankly gay people can fight as well as anyone else. A person's sexual orientation should not be a factor in combat, I can guarantee that in a firefight the guy that is shooting next to you is not thinking about your behind.

And from what I understand most gay guys don't bother with straight guys, what's the point? They might be attracted to you (You should be flattered, not repulsed.) But they are going to go after someone that is going to reciprocate their affections.

So to sum up, don't ask don't tell should go away.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
yes but they don't shower in front of them in those jobs do they?

Everytime don't ask don't tell topic comes up irrelevant analogies pop up.
happens everytime

Speaking of irrelevant analogies, what do you think is going to happen if a straight guy showers in front of a gay guy? That's a real question. What exactly is the problem?