U.S. Troops handcuff, execute 8 Afghan children

Originally posted by rainfall

I just added you to my friends list..

Thanks, and welcome.

Originally posted by cjcord
Yes, civilians are killed in war. W@rong place, wrong time, target miscalculations, human sheilds, collateral damage-- these are all facts of war.

So is insurgency, yet many who support these wars seem to twist that around to portray men who fight a foreign occupation using guerilla tactics as terrorists who just want to kill innocents. So, it shouldn't surprise you that those against the war may do likewise. If the USA were invaded, we would do the exact same thing. That's why the japanese never tried to invade us, they were intelligent enough to know it would have been a bloodbath. How can we expect those proud but simple farmers to roll over and allow themselves to be subjugated by an invading force? Many have tried, and well, you know what happened.

US forces handcuffing children and lining them up and shooting them execution style? Now why would ANYONE doubt that? It's just run of the mill for us white devils right?

I'm not defending the story in the OP, i wasn't there, so i can't say one way or the other. Neither can you. As for being run of the mill (don't know why skin color is brought up, there are many races in our military), it is run of the mill that conflict can change some men for the worst. Nazis were just german soldiers that were made to believe they were doing the right thing, under similar circumstances to 9/11 too (reichstag).

reply to post by poet1b


Poet, i see you on the Obama threads bashing our government, do you not realize it's the same government that's running these wars?? Do you not realize the same corporate lobbyists and greedy old men we all despise are the ones who are bribing our government to start and continue these wars, using the propaganda you're recycling? They're sending our troops to die for THEIR monetary gain, to protect THEIR interests. Those cavemen over there represent NO threat to our nation on the whole. There ARE extremists, and they should be hunted down like i said before, by men trained to do so without impacting the civilians in a given country. Why do you trust the government NOW?

Originally posted by rob20153

Originally posted by thegreatone

Originally posted by December_Rain
Is the picture of the children linked to one source?

I am sure these brave soldiers will be given a 6 month sentence or a discharge with full pension and will be cheered as heros as happened when Bush was in office.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by December_Rain]

[edit on 7-1-2010 by December_Rain]

nice pic, got any that show their faces? I mean im not saying our military hasnt done horrible ish in the past but it would be more credible if i can see whether or not their faces are brown. whose to say that isnt a pic of terrorists in gear similar to ours or taken from dead soldiers, stolen,etc. How great would this story be in getting new recruits for al-queda? I dont buy it.

By the way. Did anyone happen to notice the footwear that the soldier on the left of the frame is wearing? The last time I checked with my friends and family members who are on active duty in the war zone, athletic shoes are not part of the uniform of the day. Possibly they could be Americans, XE aka Blackwater, has been tossed out as a possibility. However, unless the info surrounding how this photo was taken can be concretely proven, who can say beyond a reasonable doubt who was actually posing for the photos. By the way, what kind of idiot poses for a souvenir photo with the children you are about to murder, and then lets the photographer out of their control?

good eye! I didnt even notice the sneakers which just leads me to doubt the credability of this picture and event even more. What better way to get people to hate america more than to stage an event showing them killing children or about to kill children. I really dont buy this.

Originally posted by 27jd

US forces handcuffing children and lining them up and shooting them execution style? Now why would ANYONE doubt that? It's just run of the mill for us white devils right?

I'm not defending the story in the OP, i wasn't there, so i can't say one way or the other. Neither can you. As for being run of the mill (don't know why skin color is brought up, there are many races in our military), it is run of the mill that conflict can change some men for the worst. Nazis were just german soldiers that were made to believe they were doing the right thing, under similar circumstances to 9/11 too (reichstag).

Correct, we cannot say unless we were there. But from what I have read in this thread, no one reporting on this story WAS there, so are we to immediately discount it in total?

My apologies, i brought up "White devils" because in similar propaganda stories I have read, that has been how our US military and government has been described.

But I have to disagree with your referencing German soldiers in a different way; they were made to believe the "undesirable people" were ok to kill. Not the same situation here. There has been no national protest against Iraqis or Afghans as a whole, unlike in WWII. Which is why a story of Nazi troops lining paraplegics and down syndrome children up and killing them sounds about right to me, and not at all factual in the OP's case.

Originally posted by cjcord
But I have to disagree with your referencing German soldiers in a different way; they were made to believe the "undesirable people" were ok to kill.

No, there were only a few who were tasked with the genocidal aspects of the operation. Most were just soldiers, like i said, war can bring out the worst in some people. It's not impossible to believe frustrated soldiers, overworked and overextended, can snap and take it out on the innocent. Also, muslims are quickly becoming "undesirable people" who are ok to kill in this country, as far as quite a few are concerned. Nazi germany didn't turn into what it did overnight, it took time and conditioning.

Not the same situation here. There has been no national protest against Iraqis or Afghans as a whole, unlike in WWII. Which is why a story of Nazi troops lining paraplegics and down syndrome children up and killing them sounds about right to me, and not at all factual in the OP's case.

They sound "about right" to you, because you've been conditioned to believe that. History is written by the victor, after all.

reply to post by thegreatone



Interesting how that exact same photo has been used to support several stories, claims and articles.

Here's one site/story that uses it as a visual support for an article on,
"Iraqi children for sale"

www.bluebloggin.com...

[edit]

Actually the photo is from Tal Afar, Iraq in early 2005

The incident happened in Tal Afar, near Mosul, in northern Iraq, late on Tuesday.


[edit on 10-1-2010 by Annie Mossity]

reply to post by Annie Mossity


How is it that the story itself is automatically untrue because an irresponsible journalist may have attached an unrelated image for added effect? Again, i'm not saying it's true or untrue. What IS true however, is that soldiers sometimes exact their own justice, as we have seen in past proven stories. If that image was being offered as the proof this occurred, i would say it's BS as well, but i've seen MANY times in the past where a story will contain a completely unrelated image, but still be a true story. The image itself proves nothing either way.

reply to post by 27jd


I wasn't trying to claim the story untrue based solely on that photo, just demonstrating how, all too often, unassociated imagery and/or videos are used to support otherwise unsubstantiated claims articles or stories.

As for the opening post in this thread, it wouldn't seem they could have misrepresented the source article further. False allegations mixed with baseless assumptions which do little more than further expose their slip.

Nowhere in the source article is there any mention or inference that US or coalition troops were involved whatsoever.

reply to post by 27jd


I disagree with your logic, or should I say "what you have been conditioned to believe". When you begin to justify your views by stating the opposing view is invalid due to "conditioning", "brainwashing", or any other appeal to ignorance, you have invalidated yourself.

I do not need to conditioned or to believe an event happened because of what someone told me. If that were the case, I would hardly be here, would I?

Irt is not conditioning that actualizes the fact that Jews, Disabled people, Gypsies and others were vilified and dehumanized by the Nazi party.

I have yet to see evidence that the US Military as a whole has dehumanized or vilified the entire population of these countries we are currently fighting in.

War can change people, I can agree with that. But in this specific instance, the entire article is textbook propaganda, coming from an unreliable source, thus has no evidence to back up its claims, and I am in no way inclined to take it as truth unless that evidence appears.


If you insist on brushing off common sense by stating it is conditioning, perhaps you should flesh that argument out a bit more.

reply to post by cjcord


There have been , and is currently a thread with "in your face evidence"
But these threads get no play from the group of "not us" and their supporters.

You want proof, its a click away.

You want people to see your point of view?

Take your blinders off.

Not to derail the thread, but I am sure you are aware that there are many forums here, with many threads in each. I am interested in reading what you are referring to, would you mind giving me a few clues on where to find them?

reply to post by cjcord


Ill bump them

2nd line to say I'll bump two

ok

Okay... here's my problem with your post...

the title you chose to use reads "U.S. Troops handcuff, execute 8 Afghan children" Yet in the links you provide nowhere did it say US forces were involved... that reference is only made in other peoples personal blogs while the officials in this say its still under investigation... so what gives... did you make this comment simply to incite?

He said the UN "continues to investigate this incident to help bring clarity to the situation." He welcomed efforts by the Afghan government and the international military to do the same.

A statement issued Thursday by the Afghan National Security Directorate said the government investigation showed no Afghan forces were involved and "international forces from an unknown address came to the area and without facing any armed resistance, put 10 youth in two rooms and killed them.

"They conducted this operation on their own without informing any security or local authorities of Afghanistan," the statement said.

Quote from your own AP story source

reply to post by Sean48


Take what blinders off Sean?

These would seem two entirely different incidents. No?

One, your thread, from April of '09 and this one, by rainfall, appears to have taken place in the latter part of December.

reply to post by Sean48


Thank you. I have read and commented. But the threads still have not proved that what I stated above is incorrect. Isolated instances do not equate to an organization policy.

reply to post by Annie Mossity


The comments you Quoted where directed to the poster above my response.

To his comments asking basically for "more proof"

reply to post by Sean48


"Her" actually. And I didn't ask for "more proof". I asked for any evidence that the US Military as a whole has decided to dehumanize and mark as enemy to be destroyed the entire populations of Iraq and Afghanistan, which is what a poster above was insinuating.


Edited to clarify: Your links were upsetting, but not evidence to justify the claims above.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by cjcord]

Originally posted by cjcord
I disagree with your logic, or should I say "what you have been conditioned to believe". When you begin to justify your views by stating the opposing view is invalid due to "conditioning", "brainwashing", or any other appeal to ignorance, you have invalidated yourself.

How have i invalidated myself? Please explain, besides just saying i have. Also, who has conditioned ME to believe my personal logic? I've come to the conclusions i have personally, by thinking for myself, not what FOX news tells me. I don't subscribe to either of the current polarizations in this nation, i am not anti-war or pro-war. I see very clearly the motives behind the current conflicts though, and i believe war should be fought between 2 uniformed armies on a battlefield, AWAY from children. The way it used to be fought, but with the evolution of technology we have really become somewhat cowardly, men don't face each other anymore, we kill each other from miles away and don't care who gets killed in the crossfire.

I have yet to see evidence that the US Military as a whole has dehumanized or vilified the entire population of these countries we are currently fighting in.

The military really has nothing to do with it. They are doing their jobs, what they are ordered to do. Some are unable to deal with the pressures of military service and snap, REGARDLESS what country they represent. It's the lawmakers (and their corporate masters) who send them to war for profit, who are responsible for the propaganda and the dehumanization of the enemy to gain public support for their adventures. Have you not seen how they lie to us and ignore us in EVERY other aspect of our dealings with them? What the HELL makes you think they are playing straight with us THIS time?

reply to post by Annie Mossity


You're right, and i didnt come into this thread to defend the story in the OP. I know lies are spread on both sides. I came into this thread to address the large group of "the deaths of children are just part of war" crowd. It never used to be, when wars were fought between men, with honor. It's disgusting to me to see a significant part of our population saying it's okay when kids are killed in war because "bad things happen". Completely disgusting. Not even Scarface would kill kids, but many in this nation are behind it. It's a sad state of affairs in this day and age.