U.S. Troops handcuff, execute 8 Afghan children

reply to post by Tyler Fawkes


Totally not the same my friend


On a side note , nice story.

ATS has writing competitions about once a month,fiction.

reply to post by Tyler Fawkes


First of all----paragraph breaks please----

And second....what....

If your talking about the 'file photos' that is a common practice for news agencies to use....if a news story breaks and they don't have the actual pictures they go into the archives and get something similar that relates to the story...

Originally posted by rainfall
reply to post by 27jd

 

Hi 27jd,

I find it hard to believe that the military type can't seem to put the shoe on the other foot...

They can't seem to get it through their head that they are occupying someone elses country....and when they are shot at or rocks thrown at them.....that person is a insurgent or terrorist....no, it's just someone defending their homeland..

Just like we would do here...If Russia, China and Iran joined forces and invaded the U.S. I think we would all do what we had to do to get them out...and for doing that they would call us the insurgents and terrorists...

They don't understand that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

And like Acid_Burn2009 said before, he knows he's there to 'line the pockets of Haliburton'......I don't get it...

I went to do a job, that I did and returned safely. Don't pull the "If America ever got invaded" stuff...I don't ever see it happening. We may be there because the previous administration lied about why we were going, however we have an obligation to HELP these people rebuild after we helped to destroy. I don't mind debating the subject but for God's sake I dont know why you can't see occupation to help rebuild, protect the general good populace and train the native army. Granted Haliburton and it's goons are making out with this deal but it seems as if no one is willing to step up and say anything. I guess it's just easier to complain about it on an internet message board rather then take action. Afghan is another story...I agree to get out. We have no obligation to those people, they held off Russia, they can oust Al Q as well.

I guess I just don't, or ever will, understand the animosity aimed at the US Armed Forces. There are a few bad eggs but that happens with everything. We are just doing a job. If you have issue with the job perhaps you should take it up with our boss, the Commander In Chief otherwise known as the President.

Again I state, that the OP is a hoax and there is no evidence to support these claims, This has turned into a "flame the military" thread because we are all bad guys and we all kill women and children and non combatants.


There was another poster that mentioned the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and defending it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I do not advocate revolution but it does state right in the constitution:
(paraphrasing) if we don't like what the current administration is doing then we are obligated to install a new government that will have US Citizens interests at heart...but thats for another thread altogether.

reply to post by Tyler Fawkes

Point is mistaken identity happens. In that picture there are too many OBVIOUS mistakes for them to professional military (especially American) or blackwater for that matter. Yes, the picture might have been used to describe the story but do not tell me it does not matter and to forget about the pictures. I bet you that you thought the people in that picture were Americans and were wondering what happened to those two poor children (regardless of the fact the picture had nothing to do with it). The big point of my reply is that you cannot absolutely trust anything you read, hear, etc. How come this isn't on the main stream media here (CNN, FOX, alphabets). Abu Gharaib was all over the news so surely this would be too because if true it makes the horrible things at Abu Gharaib look fun.

Originally posted by rainfall
I find it hard to believe that the military type can't seem to put the shoe on the other foot...

Well, honorable soldiers probably come from the position of genuinely feeling like their intentions are good, and can't understand why there's a part of the population that wants them out at any cost.

If they were to imagine some russian (no offense to russians, just our most formidable rival) soldiers walking down their block with guns at the ready, and themselves being disarmed and subverted, completely and obviously under the control of those men in front of their wives and children, i'm sure they understand. Living with the knowledge that anytime, a group of bad apples could break into their home under the guise of a routine search and have their way with their wives or daughters, and they couldn't do anything to protect them without being swarmed by soldiers and killed, with no chance of protecting their family. I'm sure they understand that if that were to happen, they simply could not live that way, no man with any kind of pride could.

I do know though that i would never allow my children to come into the battle, and i certainly wouldn't target other Americans just to get a couple foreign troops. I honestly doubt most iraqis or afghanis would either, it's outside groups with their own motives that carry out those types of attacks. And like i said before, they should be hunted down and killed, but without allowing collateral damage and without disrupting the lives of the native people. It can be done, if that's what they really wanted to do.

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
Again I state, that the OP is a hoax and there is no evidence to support these claims, This has turned into a "flame the military" thread because we are all bad guys and we all kill women and children and non combatants.

Have I in any way flamed the military in my posts? Honestly? I think you're taking the criticism of the reasons we're in those countries too personally. I appreciate your service to this country, i have no reason to believe you are lying about your intentions to help the iraqis. You didn't make the policy, and as long as you're not ordered to commit inhumane acts and attrocities, it was your duty to be there. A military would be worthless if soldiers got to choose if they wanted to participate in combat or not.

There was another poster that mentioned the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and defending it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I do not advocate revolution but it does state right in the constitution:
(paraphrasing) if we don't like what the current administration is doing then we are obligated to install a new government that will have US Citizens interests at heart...but thats for another thread altogether.

It's refreshing to see you are still on the side of the people of this nation. I don't think a violent revolution would be needed, just for people to start caring, and stand up together and demand the crooks who've highjacked this country give it back. We are their power, the military, the working class, without us they have nothing. They keep us all divided and at each others throats purposely, so we forget how messed up it is that less than 2% of our population holds all the wealth we all live and die to create, and make all the decisions for us, based on how much more money they can get.

reply to post by rainfall


So, by your reasoning, someone could use a picture of you (or I) on a wanted poster for a murderer because you fit the description? Same difference...honestly cannot say isn't.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by endisnighe

 

Exactly, every search in regards to this article, always end up in the same location. We need confirmation on this before proceeding further. We cannot do anything with this until there is something backing up the story. No need to be the same as the MSM.

True...will hold further comment...but we have killed innocents people..including children...regardless if this story is true or not.

Really? In places where there is war people get killed. If you live in a war zone and you have kids you may want to leave. I am a parent and there is no way we stay near a militarized area, period. In any language or religion it would be the same, our protective instinct to survive and save our children is the priority and we do what ever we have to, to protect them. That begs the question, why were they there, allowed to be in this situation at all?

reply to post by 27jd


i was speaking in general terms, did not mean you directly. Gov't was my boss but I still firmly believe by, for and of the people from which we have strayed drastically.

No offense to you was intended. Nice to have a good conversation/debate.

reply to post by Britguy


I was just about to say but glad I searched for it, non-military I immediately thought it was Blackwater/Xe. What a scapegoat, if they were ordered to do it they cant be courtmartialled for their actions and the US military will just say 'hey they're not under our jurisdiction'...

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by rainfall

 

It will show up on MSM as the children "attacked a convoy."

You just know the spin on this is gonna be a 360.

REVENGE

God , I hope it wasn't

Ya know... if ya spin it 360... ya'll end up in the same place... just a heads up mate.

Originally posted by m khan
So if it isn't US troops, do we assume it is Blackwater? This war has to stop, There is no accountability in this government at all. There is no way to investigate, because the government doesn't allow investigation. It is past time to demand that this corrupt nazi government step down. It is past time for a full investigation of Waco, Murrah, 911 the whole nine yards. It is time the American people realize they don't have a news media and turn the *@#* news media out on its ....

I agree with every word. The problem is, how do you throw them out when most of the country lives in the dark about most of this stuff?

reply to post by Aeons


"Bad things happen."????

Are you serious? Have you lost your soul?

This isn't a story about "bad things that happened". It's not like these soldiers tripped over a banana peel and their guns accidentally discharged. That would qualify as a "bad thing that happened".

What they reportedly did was execute innocent civilians in a land where they are present as an occupying force. These guys are murderous ciminals and deserve the same fate they visited upon their victims and certainly no less than that.

Referring euphemistically to atrocities such as by calling them "bad things that just happened" is a depraved psychopathic way of framing it. It encourages more of the same and cynically deflects responsibility away from the perpetrators.

So, all I can say is SHAME ON YOU and anyone else who brushes this sort of conduct away with trite phrases like "bad things happen", "# happens", "war is hell", and other such tripe.

A small overview of Crimes of Committed by US Soldiers:

9/15/2005 - Army documents show systemic failures in treatment of detainees; contradict report of Inspector General Mikolashek

10/24/2005 - Autopsies and Death reports reveal deaths of detainees in U.S. custody

1/12/2006 - Documents show that the Army received reports of detainee abuse as early as January 2002

2/23/2006 - Further Evidence Senior Officials Approved Abuse of Prisoners: FBI memo details Guantnamo commander's repeated refusal to abandon illegal and ineffective interrogation techniques

4/11/2006 - ACLU Releases First Government Authentication of Abu Ghraib Abuse Images Along With One New Photo

5/2/2006 - Army Documents Show Senior Official Reportedly Pushed Limits on Detainee Interrogations; New Evidence that Government Knew Abuse was Widespread Before Abu Ghraib Photos

7/10/2006 - Department of Defense documents show Pentagon silence led to prisoner abuses

1/2/2007 - Documents obtained from the FBI detail 26 eyewitness accounts by agents of detainee abuse, 17 of which the Bureau apparently chose not to investigate further.

8/15/2007 - New Details of Possible "Cover-Up" of Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

4/1/2008 - declassified OLC memo authored by John Yoo asserting that President Bush has unlimited power to order brutal interrogations to extract information from detainees.

4/16/2008 - Documents describe Charges Of Murder And Torture Of Prisoners In U.S. Custody

4/30/2008 - Newly Unredacted Report Confirms Psychologists Supported Illegal Interrogations In Iraq and Afghanistan

5/14/2008 - Defense Department Documents About Prisoner Deaths And Interrogations

5/20/2008 - Justice Department Report Reveals Senior Government Officials Knew Early On Of Interrogation Abuse But Did Not Stop It

7/24/2008 - Key Memos Authorizing CIA Torture Methods

11/19/2008 - Documents Obtained provide Further Evidence That Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Was Systemic

2/12/2009 - Deaths at Bagram Followed Abusive Behavior During and Following Interrogation

3/2/2009 - CIA Informs That Its Personnel Destroyed 92 Interrogation Videotapes

3/6/2009 - CIA Documents State that 12 of 92 Destroyed Videotapes Depicted Use of "Enhanced Interrogation Methods"

6/15/2009 - Heavily Redacted Guantánamo Tribunal Transcripts of Detainees Describing Torture and Abuse Suffered in CIA Custody

8/24/2009 - Detailed Official Record Of CIA Torture Program

10/30/2009 - Documents Related to Bush Torture Program

Source:US Govt. Documents released under Freedom of Information Act

Taguba Report:

The inquiry had begun in January, and was led by General Taguba, who was stationed in Kuwait at the time. Taguba filed his report in March. In it he found:

Numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees . . . systemic and illegal abuse.

Read more: The General’s Report-How Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, became one of its casualties.

Torture/Rape/Sexul assault
Taguba Report-ARTICLE 15-6 INVESTIGATION OF THE 800th MILITARY POLICE BRIGADE
Abu Ghraib photos depict rape, sexual assault: ex-US general
Guantanamo is symbol of degraded torture convention: UN rights chief
Abu Gharib Files-Torture Policy
DOJ releases secret CIA interrogation memos
Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'
US general linked to Abu Ghraib abuse
In a third reported case, witnesses said US guards repeatedly raped a 14 year old girl in 2003.
In a fourth reported case, Senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.
The suppressed fact: Deaths by U.S. torture

Homocide:
Autopsy reports reveal homicides of detainees in U.S. custody

War Crimes:
Reference: International Humanitarian Law - Treaties & Documents

International Humanitarian Law (Law Of War) 1949 and 1977 Conventions and Protocols

Amnesty International USA: Investigation, prosecution, remedy Accountability for human rights violations in the ‘war on terror’

And how US Military acted in such cases before:

Were any of these people prosecuted for physical, psychological, and sexual abuse, including torture, rape, sodomy, and homicide of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (also known as Baghdad Correctional Facility) as should have been? Keeping in mind Nazi soldiers were executed for same kind of crimes, the US Army FAILED to bring these people to justice.

NO, instead the charges filed against them were minor charges, have a look:

The United States Department of Defense removed seventeen soldiers and officers from duty, and eleven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault and battery. Between May 2004 and March 2006, eleven soldiers were convicted in courts martial, sentenced to military prison, and dishonorably discharged from service.

Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, were sentenced to ten years and three years in prison, respectively, in trials ending on January 14, 2005 and September 26, 2005. The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

Out of all only 2 soldiers were imprisoned (which probably would be reduced for "good" behavior), the army which was responsible for these people failed to investigate and bring all criminals to justice from the TOP level to BOTTOM. They failed to uphold the law and noone else but US Army is responsible for it.

Those who were demoted are/would still be serving in army.

List of few crimes committed by US Soldiers

Here is the list of crimes they committed along with sentencing they should have received under US Laws:
Torture: 20 years and incase of death then punishment by death
a). physical torture
b). psychological torture
c). sexual torture

2. sexual abuse: Life imprisonment or any number of years
a). rape
b). sodomy

3. Homicide - Death /life imprisonment
a) Murder

4. war Crimes (under Geneva Convention) - Death/ life imprisonment

What they were charged with:
1. dereliction of duty - The maximum penalty in the U.S. is a bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of pay and six months confinement.
2. maltreatment - there is only adult and child maltreatmeant law, couldnt even find this term in any law relating to prisoner
3. aggravated assault - Aggravated assault is usually a felony punishable by a term in state prison.
4. battery - (a) A battery is punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
=================================================
Torture and US Criminal Law
§ 2340A. Torture

(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.

§ 2241. Aggravated sexual abuse
(a) By Force or Threat.— Whoever, in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States or in a Federal prison, or in any prison, institution, or facility in which persons are held in custody by direction of or pursuant to a contract or agreement with the head of any Federal department or agency, knowingly causes another person to engage in a sexual act—
(1) by using force against that other person; or
(2) by threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping;
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.
(b) By Other Means.— Whoever, in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States or in a Federal prison, or in any prison, institution, or facility in which persons are held in custody by direction of or pursuant to a contract or agreement with the head of any Federal department or agency, knowingly—
(1) renders another person unconscious and thereby engages in a sexual act with that other person; or
(2) administers to another person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or permission of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby—
(A) substantially impairs the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct; and
(B) engages in a sexual act with that other person;
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.

§ 2242. Sexual abuse
Whoever, in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States or in a Federal prison, or in any prison, institution, or facility in which persons are held in custody by direction of or pursuant to a contract or agreement with the head of any Federal department or agency, knowingly—
(1) causes another person to engage in a sexual act by threatening or placing that other person in fear (other than by threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping); or
(2) engages in a sexual act with another person if that other person is—
(A) incapable of appraising the nature of the conduct; or
(B) physically incapable of declining participation in, or communicating unwillingness to engage in, that sexual act;
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

§ 2441. War crimes
(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.

CHAPTER 51—HOMICIDE
# § 1111. Murder - Death and imprisonment for life

Source: www.law.cornell.edu...
=================================================

Again these are just few of the crimes I put there not even all. The thing that German soldiers were prosecuted under such laws in WWII says a lot when US soldiers are not treated equally under the law.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by Tyler Fawkes

 

Totally not the same my friend


On a side note , nice story.

ATS has writing competitions about once a month,fiction.

Fiction huh, as in the fiction story Rainfall posted on page 1 about how American's murderered innocent children? Its a hoax, but its still classified as fiction.

Oh and I remember your other post "I CANT BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE NOT OUTRAGED BY THIS!!!" You sound like Alex Jones. Are you by the way?\

Again, outraged in the absense of any proof, pictures... the Afghan National Police didnt even know who did it. You just assume it was Americans because you have issues.

There is a psychological mechanism that compells people to stick with things they initially side themselves with... even when they find out they are wrong. Literally, people will continue the same little act even when they know they are busted just because of a psychological mechanism. Your caught up in that mechanism. No ammount of proof will change your stance because your that stubborn.

However, if it ever comes out that Americans had something to do with those killings, I will be outraged. Until then, be realistic.


Rainfall posted a hoax, a hoax so sensitive its gone 22 pages. I sure hope she is proud of herself. I am sure she feels special now.

reply to post by Chastral


I have posted proof above about previous incidents from US Govt.'s own documents obtained under Freedom of Information Act.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by Chastral

 

I have posted proof above about previous incidents from US Govt.'s own documents obtained under Freedom of Information Act.

Yea dont worry I was going to get to you too, I had a phone call.

You have posted about the things that took place in prisons, and some other things. Yea, that stuff was pretty whack. But that isnt anything close to going at taking little kids and shooting them. You cannot compair a soldier raping a woman in prison the same as killing a kid. You just cant do it.

There is proof that moms have killed their very own children, and thats doccumented. Theres proof that people in church organizations have raped and molested children. Theres all kinds of proof about horrific events all over the place, OF COURSE YOU WILL FIND DIRT ON SOLDERS, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS TOO.

You cannot use that material to make the argument that Americans killed those children. You just cant do it. I dont know whats up with you people, how about just slow it down a notch or two and wait for the story to develope.

Originally posted by December_Rain

A small overview of Crimes Committed by US Soldiers:

Wow...December_Rain, thanks for contributing that information..

You could start a thread on that stuff alone....I would participate..