Questions about god

reply to post by antideceit


What is up with your profile pic that is weird. I understand where people come from on god. It just ain't for me. I would like more input. Another question. If he makes you worship him and if u don't you go to hell is that not a egomanic. It seems that everybody should believe what they want to and not depend on the church to makes the choice for you. I think chuch is nonsense if you want to worship god you should be able to do in your home it's the same thing.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by gtasa234]

[edit on 9-1-2010 by gtasa234]

reply to post by gtasa234


First off...you are using a man made object to observe what 'could' be god.

God did not leave us a material book that holds no life...Gods works on in life itself, and this can be read like a book.

Im not saying there are not spiritual wisdom's in a book or within a religion...but God is within you, the kingdom is within you...seek your purest nature within you...religion is of man, not of God.

Before you have question about the book...you can find the 'nature' of God by learning what does 'holy' mean, what does 'divine' mean, what does 'unblemished' mean, what does 'spirit' mean.

God did not leave us a book....but life itself...to learn from.

Do you have a understanding why it is better to not be greedy, do you have understanding of why we should offer others comfort and things they need (if we are able to).....do you have understanding of why there must be unity in this world?

If you do have understanding of these things...you are closer then what you think with you questions of 'what God is'.

reply to post by gtasa234


We are eternal beings.

A parent never stops loving their young (unless they are selfish and have major issues).

We relearn all the things we need to learn...the only hell that exists is the one we create for ourselves.

Gods nature is not wrathful, but patient and understanding. I saw my mother relearn many things when she was dying. She didnt die...but during her experience, she told me she relearned everything there was to know and that she understood why she did what she did. She said in between lives...we relearn everything, which helps us set up another life to remember what we forget while in the flesh.

You are always worthy of Gods love, Thee waits until you are ready.

Originally posted by gtasa234
reply to post by antideceit

 

What is up with your profile pic that is weird. [edit on 9-1-2010 by gtasa234]

My avatar symbolizes how people can be like lemmings because of all the bad things like stubborness, selfishness, etc, long long list....

reply to post by antideceit


Looks like the mass following the masses.

Too funny...but scary of its truth within.

I always show up late to the party, and my opinions may already have been stated by others, but they are mine and you left us open to share

To approach your questions without a religious slant, you would first need to take the letters G, O, and D out of the question. Whenever one types or writes "God", a religious bent is assumed.

When I was involved in a 12 step program, i was told something that made sense to me: I don't care if you call it a chair, god, or a trough of putrid water- if you believe it defines something greater than yourself, then that is what it is.

That clarified, you are asking for proof of a power greater than the human race.

Short answer: there isn't one.

Long answer: To believe in a power greater than yourself is a moot point, as it means you consciously decide to believe in a force greater than you, which is impossible.

Why impossible? because the only concept humans can grasp are the concepts we can think of. We as yet have no proof of the human brain limitations, nor of the existence of a consciousness, or soul.

So if all we can think is what the chemical reactions in our brains allow us to think, which would be a scientific view; then that's all we know. Anything greater than that we would not be able to conceptualize. Because our brains do not allow us to imagine/intuit/logically opine anything more than we, as humans, know.

I hope that made sense.

Let me see if i can simplify it.

We, as humans, can only conceptualize or image what we already have knowledge of. Even those with "new" and "original" ideas, aren't new or original. If one were break those new ideas down, they would break the new idea as a whole into what...words, right? To explain a concept we use language so we can conceptualize it. Our limitations on language limit our ability to conceptualize. So we* (*we meaning humans) cannot identify a color we have not recognized as being on the color spectrum. We cannot identify a new taste without utilizing words used to define tastes we already know. Does that explain it better?

So my point is, to conceptualize/know/imagine/believe in a power greater than we humans is not possible as humans. The power would have to have traits we as humans have not conceptualized.

But we, as humans, have a natural instinct to be safe. We need to be able to cope with situations we have no control over. The only way the human brain can process this is to identify something that has more control than we do. There, we can answer all unanswered questions, and we can feel safe in knowing that all is not randomly chaotic. Let's call it a power greater than ourselves.


In my opinion, it is a psychological coping mechanism. Without the belief that something out there is controlling all of this, something out there created us, and gave us a purpose, and something greater than us has decreed moral codes; what would we, as humans, have left?

I mean, one planet out of all those scientists have made known, with the right random chemical reactions to make it possible for lifeforms to develop and evolve could not POSSIBLY be a chance thing, right?

Well, yes, it could. We, as humans, have defined the meaning of the word chance, and random. We would not have defined this word (even if random were actually called something else- still conveys the same meaning) if random never occurred. And if a random chance event has ever occurred, it is entirely possible that it occurred then, at the infinite point of everything.

Brains explode!

No, too absurd. Best stick to religion, it's so much more...logical.

god is just a word so it takes more explaining than that

reply to post by starshiner



if you are responding to me: I disagree, I think confirming That GOD is a word is about all the explanation needed. We convey meanings in words to be able to describe or identify something. End of discussion. Doesn't make it fact.

If you were NOT responding to me: Ignore me.

Originally posted by gtasa234
I do not think there is a god and i got some questions about him. Take it easy on me this is my first thread. Here are my questions.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

If this passage is right should we of been here for the past 4b years.

Hm... in the meantime there was a flood and all human race was wiped out, except for Noah and his family.

If there is one why would he punish all of the human race for the act of 1 person.
He is supposed to be all caring and forgiv people for there sins right?

If there is one or more depends on your religious grounds, since the hindi have millions of gods (literally). What persona are you talking about? Now you confuse me. On the other hand, a good analogy would be to see god as your father: he teaches you not to do the same wrongs over and over again, but one day he won't, since he'll be deceased, he will quit or something else. As far as I see it, REAL christians do not count with god's helping hand to solve their problems and to be forgiven, but they act throughout their whole lives in order to live under god's 'code of conduct', so to say.

If there was one why would we live in pretty much hell?

Would there be good without evil, pleasure without pain, white without black and so on? As the saying goes, every rose has it's thorns.

Who created him? i know that gets asked alot but o well.

If he exists (something I am not sure but that I certainly don't discard), I think I would compare him to an element, like water or gold, that are not created, but they pure simply EXIST. Any scientist will tell you this if you ask him how does gold originate, for instance.

If were all brothers and sisters woudn't we have alot more problems with our bodys because of the incest thing?

'For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.'

1 Cor. 12:12-14

What we're talking here is that everything physical that is connected with the divine cannot and will not be impure or flawed. That is, if you believe it. =)

I think religon was only created to scare people into what they think you should live by. Some i agree with but alot i don't.

It's your point of view. Ask me and I'll say that religion helps millions of people worldwide daily, and to be honest I guess faith is what moves the world every second. You must have had one experience like that, where you need something so badly you start 'hoping' it'll happen. That 'hope', my friend, is faith. It can be bad, of course, if it's negative. But that's up to you do think and opt.
I honestly thought there was no god or deities not too far ago, but there are things you can't simply explain with science. And feelings too. As of today, I don't know if it exists or not, but I definitelly put aside my 'certainties' that it didn't exist, who am I to say such a thing? I do not believe any, but on the other hand some things make me 'hope' there is one. And that, luckily, he has some sense of humor. =)

reply to post by Faustian Spirit

Hm... in the meantime there was a flood and all human race was wiped out, except for Noah and his family.

The Noah story is a retelling of an older Sumerian story which might have a small amount of truth to a point of it being a large localized flood rather than a world wide flood.

If there is one or more depends on your religious grounds, since the hindi have millions of gods (literally). What persona are you talking about? Now you confuse me. On the other hand, a good analogy would be to see god as your father: he teaches you not to do the same wrongs over and over again, but one day he won't, since he'll be deceased, he will quit or something else. As far as I see it, REAL christians do not count with god's helping hand to solve their problems and to be forgiven, but they act throughout their whole lives in order to live under god's 'code of conduct', so to say.

Unfortunately, some of God's 'code of conduct' is unjust and breeds intolerance, bigotry and hate. There are many examples of how God's commands have been used to bring about some of the most horrible acts mankind can do against fellow man.

Would there be good without evil, pleasure without pain, white without black and so on? As the saying goes, every rose has it's thorns.

Who's to say there wouldn't be? If there were indeed an all powerful God, then he would inherently be powerful enough to create nothing but good. Seeing as how there is evil, he is inherently the originator of evil for he is the creator. If he allows evil, then he is not all loving as some would like to claim.

If he exists (something I am not sure but that I certainly don't discard), I think I would compare him to an element, like water or gold, that are not created, but they pure simply EXIST. Any scientist will tell you this if you ask him how does gold originate, for instance.

Current scientific thought on the origination of Gold is not that it has always 'just existed', but that it may have been formed from the collision of two neutron stars. The analogy shows a lack of understanding what current scientific inquiry has to say and is not equatable with the nature of an eternal deity.

'For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.'

1 Cor. 12:12-14

What we're talking here is that everything physical that is connected with the divine cannot and will not be impure or flawed. That is, if you believe it. =)

So genetic flaws acquired through incest are just evil claims given by those devil worshiping scientists? Obviously God is wrong on this one and perhaps when he was designing the human genetic code, he should have brushed up on his biology before making erroneous claims.

It's your point of view. Ask me and I'll say that religion helps millions of people worldwide daily, and to be honest I guess faith is what moves the world every second. You must have had one experience like that, where you need something so badly you start 'hoping' it'll happen. That 'hope', my friend, is faith. It can be bad, of course, if it's negative. But that's up to you do think and opt.
I honestly thought there was no god or deities not too far ago, but there are things you can't simply explain with science. And feelings too. As of today, I don't know if it exists or not, but I definitelly put aside my 'certainties' that it didn't exist, who am I to say such a thing? I do not believe any, but on the other hand some things make me 'hope' there is one. And that, luckily, he has some sense of humor. =)

While some aspects of religion do teach a good message and excellent foundation of moral code, it has it's dark side as well. This other side of religion has for centuries been used against fellow man. If we can evolve and refine religious teachings even more to weed out the hate, bigotry and intolerance, then perhaps religion would be more acceptable to the non-believers. Also, it's not sciences job to have all the answers and I agree that there is a lot that science can't answer right now. However, to lay belief in a deity based on this is ridiculous in my opinion.

Originally posted by gtasa234
I do not think there is a god and i got some questions about him. Take it easy on me this is my first thread. Here are my questions.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

If this passage is right should we of been here for the past 4b years.

The answer to that question is Venus. Most of the planets in the solar system have thick, crushing atmospheres.

The watery deep was a thick atmosphere which blocked out the sun rays compariable to that of Venus today. All that water could have been in vapor form mixed in with all those other elements. It would have taken millions or billions of years for the atmosphere to thin out and de-pressurize.

reply to post by gtasa234


In the beginning is a mistranslation.
It should read beginning with God.
Much of the bible we have today comes from the King James "VERSION"
key word being version.
You hear many claim King James is the one true bible. Well ask them IF they think their version is complete they will say yes.
Then ask them why the use a concordance to understand it.
Who decided what books to include in what they call the Canon?
Paid profesional holy men.
The bible is about government more than silly rituals.
I can assure you God does not plan to send anyone to hell.
Contrast has alot to do with our understanding.
Say I lived in a state of perfection (whatever that is) I would not know it, there would be no comparison.
The Chinese have the ying and yang its all about contrast and balance.
Tha is why it was said do not eat of the tree of "the knowledge of good and evil". This Satan mentioned is in there mind.
Questions .
They questioned amoung themselves rather than talking directly to Go ,which they had the ability to do at the time.
It was a choice. That is another point God has been misre presented as some guy in the sky judging all who piss him off.
Best I can tell you is You have the capacity to know for yourself.
LIsten alot ,read alot but most of all listen to your own 'self'.
If some one tells you that you have to do this or that to get to heaven do not believe them.
Life is for living here and now Not some cloud in the sky with a mansion and fairies singin songs all day.
Think about it.
God wants all men to be perfect and sing sngs and praise him for all eternity? sound like great fun aye?
Do yo think God needs our praise?
If you have children of your own think on that.
Do you want your offspring to grow up and dress up in a white gown and sing praise to you for ever and ever?
Sounds sliiy but thats what the organized religons mostly preach.
They say salvation is free, but then you gott go to church and listen to "messages " tithe,evengelize and who knows what else?
Give your self some credit. You have a great mind.
Use is and do not forget you are a living soul.
Well that is a start.
iddyohtay

reply to post by gtasa234


Hello GTA.. Sup?

I think your confusing God with the Bible.

The Bible was written by multiple men and then once further has been edited cut, pasted and printed by mankind. There ARE problems with it. It is God's book by nature however man is imperfect. There are questions about whether or not many of the passages in the Bible were written by true prophets. It is instead filled with many life-related stories encouraging good morals and the effects of a bad soul on society.

In my humble opinion Jesus was the only true Christian prophet and while his followers were a good attempt, you can't come close to the power of Jesus Christ.

God on the other hand is perfect. He is all knowing, all powerful, eternal, life & death, space & time, mother earth and every cell in your body.

Do not mix the two and end up denying God you may regret this at some point in your life. Instead question the bible, question false prophets, and do so while respecting the fact that there IS something bigger in the universe.

As with most of the posters on this thread, I concur with the notion that 'God' is quite distinct from religion. Religion - any religion - is essentially a political philosophy; the only difference from 'secular' politics is the core belief in a power manifest in a 'God' that notionally provides ultimate authority to the ruling elite and the 'command chain'.

This is not to say that 'religion' per se is bad, just that it is a man-made construct designed to introduce a set of rules and controls over a discrete group of adherents.

cjcord made an interesting statement; "... you are asking for proof of a power greater than the human race - Short answer: there isn't one."

At face value I cannot agree with this. If we take all of the scientific achievements of man that generally agree within a notional framework of physicality, then the Earth is around 4.5 billion years. That puts modern humans' residency on this planet of 200,000 years into some perspective. At about 0.0044% of the age of the earth, if the life of the Earth to this point was 365 days, we would have been on here for approximately the last 23 minutes.

That given, surely even the very nature of the Earth represents a greater power than the human race? The human race could be wiped out by changes in the nature of our planet, by the radiation from the sun, by a large meteor hitting the Earth, in fact, many many things.

Don't get me wrong, the human race has shown itself to be pre-eminent in terms of its own advance, but in terms of nature, in terms of the cycle of the Earth, we are a passing phase. If we were wiped out tomorrow there would be little to show of all our achievements in just another 200,000 years.

The advance of another life form to pre-eminence, comparable to our out situation, say in half a million year or so, would turn up little more than fragmentary evidence such as we dig up an identify as dinosaurs.

Our great cities and monuments would crumble back into the ground, back to their basic elements. The human race would be an interesting enigma.

One day, the life of the Earth will end, it will be cindered by the Sun as it's own fuel runs low and it converts to a red giant, possibly even expanding as far as the Earth's current orbit about the Sun.

The Earth would not mourn our loss.

One possibility is that the only evidence for human kind will be a piece of space junk floating out in space naming "VIKING". In the scheme of the solar system we are even less, in the context of the wider galaxy, irrelevant.

The very universe is proof in itself of a greater power than the human race.

Sure, it is all a matter of context, but when we speak of God surely we are talking about the 'great scheme of things'? The 'Great Work'? The nature of the universe itself, the symbiotic nature of the dust of stars and the development of biological life forms?

In this context, religion is a total irrelevance, but God, now that is a different story... Such a concept of God is not reliant on the presence of man and any God that does not die with the death of human kind must surely be the greatest power that can manifest?

In this sense, we can recognise the humility which we ought to feel in the face of such power and accept that the weak attempts at defining a God that acts through the nature of the Universe itself is a much better attempt at spirituality - the spirituality of the essence of the Universe.

reply to post by randyvs


On the contrary, saying there is no god is a statement based on all evidence gathered by humanity since we came down from the trees. Your point, to say there is a god, is the irrational, naive, standpoint.

Don't sling mud - you're the guilty party here. Which, for a Christian, I'd have expected better than.

reply to post by SugarCube

In this context, religion is a total irrelevance, but God, now that is a different story... Such a concept of God is not reliant on the presence of man and any God that does not die with the death of human kind must surely be the greatest power that can manifest?

In this sense, we can recognise the humility which we ought to feel in the face of such power and accept that the weak attempts at defining a God that acts through the nature of the Universe itself is a much better attempt at spirituality - the spirituality of the essence of the Universe.

Cute story, but in no sense does it relate accurately to the historicity of Deity evolution amongst the human race. Concepts of Deity(ies) are an ever evolving social/cultural belief system and only in today's modern day and age with the advent of new knowledge and discoveries that can't be refuted against by these belief systems invented early on by primitive man trying to explain nature to himself and others, have we seen the concept of Deity change into a non-personal and non-caring higher power or force of the universe.

What you describe is an attempt to define an entity in which no evidence exists for by sensationalizing our place in the universe in which to (in hopes) strike a cord with the more gullible minded folk again in hopes that they will applaud you and lean more towards your own defined concepts of Deity. Everything you say is of opinion only, with lack of evidence in which to base that opinion from, it simply isn't true. It's no more true than any other invented concept of a higher power. It's about as true as simply stating the universe was porn from the explosive diarrhea of a pink unicorn. While I can speculate and perhaps get people to believe such a blatant purposeful lie, no amount of Irritable Bowel Syndrome Pink Unicorn-ers there are in the world is going to make that invented belief system true.

Deity and religion go hand in hand. You don't get one without the other and both are invented concepts of early man trying to make sense of the world around him. Whilst you may think you have obtained some "higher truth", fact is you've deluded yourself even further or are attempting to remain delusional for whatever reason. Perhaps your not comfortable with death or the natural affairs of life itself. Whatever your reason, no matter how cute your story, it's wrong. Now, can we please dispense with invented primitive superstitious beliefs and *try* to really make sense of our reality?

reply to post by Jedi411

In my humble opinion Jesus was the only true Christian prophet and while his followers were a good attempt, you can't come close to the power of Jesus Christ.

Your humble opinion doesn't reflect biblical scripture. Have you read the bible at all? Jesus was no Christian nor was he a Christian Prophet or Messiah. He was born a Jew and died a Jew, nor did he make the cut to become a Messiah which is why the Jews rejected him as such. The KJV bible is an inaccurate copy which is most widely used, if you want the real story, grab a hold of the Hebrew version.

reply to post by sirnex


Sirnex, nice post, but clearly you did not read my earlier post and understand what I was saying. At no point do I sensationalise 'our' place in the universe, quite the opposite. That is the whole essence of what I wrote.

Your other points also miss the central point of my post. You debate well but clearly, this is irrelevant if you miss the point of my whole post.

Please re-read it and if you still have the same response I will attempt to clarify what I said.