Questions about god

Originally posted by Gamma MO
Religion is not God. God is not religion.

Religion is simply man's feeble attempt to explain God.

I don't think of God as a being, but rather a force. It is everywhere and in everything. You have to find your own answers.

That is one of the interesting finer points of monotheistic belief in my opinion. The very first primitive form of monotheistic belief wasn't true monotheism, but it did assert a supreme creator/God that ruled over all others. Eventually, this primitive concept died out as the people went back to their older polytheistic beliefs. After a few centuries we see monotheism rise back up taking polytheistic traditions and mythologies as their own with some changes made. For nearly two thousand years this monotheistic belief has held dominance, not through truth but through death. We then enter the age of enlightenment, making new discoveries about ourselves and our reality. As we learned more about the universe around us and how thing's work, the concept of the monotheistic God again changes form. It's no longer thought to be that archaic superstitious invisible father figure, but is now held on a more personal basis than before. I can only hope I live to see what happens next. Will the concept of God change again, or will knowledge win over the minds of the believers?

reply to post by randyvs

THE CLAIM THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST IS VERY NIEVE AND SHOWS A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AT THE MOMENT IT IS UTTERED.

Equally, the claim that God does exist is also very naive. Also a lack of understanding the moment it is uttered. One has to understand that a deity can neither be proven or disproved, but a man made deity can be shown to be man made. So depending on what form of God you follow, be it the new concepts of a personal deity or the God of old from the bible, we can determine if your God is possible or fantasy.

reply to post by randyvs

Only a very inexperienced fool would make such a claim. No one can make this claim without full knowledge of the universe. Do you posses such knowledge? If so then you are God and you have gone insane because you argue that you do not exist. THE CLAIM THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST IS VERY NIEVE AND SHOWS A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AT THE MOMENT IT IS UTTERED.

Define god.

please. go on define god

let me do it for you ....

1) You think god is a "PERSON" like a human being, 2 you assume i think hes a man > WORNG, you asume the human race is special "wrong"

You lack of understanding of GOD is brought about by the lack of investigation of the matter at hand and that my dear puppydawg is LIFE not god BUT LIFE

i HAVE no fear OF god because there AINT ONE..

want evidence for this? all supreame being you call "god"?

look out your window .. there is GODs work looks nice does it not? perfect yet so imprefect..

dont make me laugh.. the only reason you think gods looking down is because your scared to die and you have no reason why your here

do you? "oh no i have faith" he / she says.. GOOD keep faith.. i have faith in my self not god

its a FUNCTION and once you get that part you will understand that LIFE is the only important thing IN live not GOD

!the lesson IN life is that YOUR ALIVE.

no life no lesson

reply to post by sirnex


amazing for once i can give you a star!



2nd line "god told me to" haha

reply to post by psilo simon

If you dont believe in a god, how do you explain us and the universe?

And what of conciousness?

I can't speak for the OP, but I will answer for myself. Thing is, I value honest over blind belief and the only honest answer there is, is I don't know. I can't explain it one hundred percent. From what I've learned, what I personally know, I'm of the opinion that reality has always existed. As for consciousness, it appears to be a product of the brain, at least everything that is known of the brain points to consciousness being a product of it. It's a culmination of various systems working in concert and symbiotically with one another that give's rise to the 'self'.

reply to post by Monts


but yet here we sit! and we do not need a god. let me show you what i mean by this..

very simple

Life is a partical

see how easy that was?

do you need a reason? NO do you need God NO did someone have to create all this YES who? FUNCTION is who..

there IS NO SUPREAM BEING that overlooks us or cares, yet here we are!

people always get wraped up and for get the little aspects of life its self and ponder and ponder..

yet we have all the evidence we need to know there is no GOD in the bible..

the answer has always been in front of you ..

WHY ARE WE HERE is a function of a question resulting in a positive and negitive

life my little friend is the outcome of this "function" and indeed its how you work!

just like that big arse universe we happen to be sat in.. its all about the functions baby!!!

my god? aint no man my god aint no being my god is the beauty of the machine that makes it all work and it sure as hell dont sit in no toga and tell me what to do..

I was already told what to do.. "be alive" the rest is up to me.

i have no laws that bound me i have no morals to guide me i am life in all its effing glory.

GOOD AND BAD

reply to post by sirnex


let me chime in on this one as well... you see once again your trying "not sirex" but the other dude .. to get to the "start point"... lets see what happens if this was to logicaly work out!

God: I am the supper being!! or something of that nature
Huamans: why is all this happening to me!!! were did i come from and what reason for it!!

God: you just answered your question my child

Humans: what do you mean

God: You did it again

the power to in fact be able to ASK a question is not some mythical aspect of your BRAIN its a function in order for you to collect data ! and work it out then come to a conclution that is stored in your brain and after time will make YOU YOU

humans are so inept at hunderstanding what they do with what they in fact ARE..

do the cells in my body ask why they are blood cells??? NO do apes ask why the are apes? does a tree ask why it is a tree

DOES ANY OTHER LIFE FORM ON THIS PLANET ASK WHY WE ARE HERE ?? NO

and do you know why they ask this? because SOMEONE TOLD THEM

thats right they was TOLD there is GOD thats why its NOT LOGICAL

Look around you!!! NOTHING ABOUT GOD IS LOGICAL

fuction IS logical

we DO NOT NEED TO KNOW WHO MADE THE UNIVERSE

because IF WE DID it WOULD STOP

and its NOT going to stop is it? NO its not because that would make YOU god and GOD pointless

and he is pointless

the value of LIFE is what is important NOT who gave you it

life its self is just ONE aspect of the very nature of the SYSTEM we are in

do not be afriad of it.. enjoy it because once this ride is over

you aint coming back matey

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Welcome to the truth train brother!

Enjot it.

Woops, Double Post!


[edit on 9/1/1010 by Monts]

reply to post by sirnex

The bible was written thousands of years ago, before we had any knowledge about the way the universe really works.

The bible also appears in the beginning to be a collection of reworked older mythologies. It's an interesting story, but certainly not the first time it's been told. Only the first time it's been told in that form.

Yes this is true, the bible's creation story was not first written in the bible, but in the mythological texts of earlier civilizations. It was simply transcribed and put into the Judaic bible. I never said it was the first time it was told; the context of the OP was referring to the bible's creation story, as written in the bible.

People were still asking the same questions we do today, such as "where did we come from" and "how did everything begin?". With such a limited scientific frame to work with, the only logical answers that could be conceived was that "God" or "The Gods" created everything.

I would disagree, if something needs a creator in order to exist, then logically God requires a creator himself (...)

Yes, this is true if you are thinking logically about God, especially in today's terms. However the ancients weren't interested in thinking "logically" about God. They were simply looking for the reason why the world was the way it was. "God" as an answer was satisfying enough for them; they praised, worshiped, and rarely questioned their God/ God's out of fear generated by the holy men.

As Einstein and Michio Kaku say:

"I don't really believe in the God of the bible and religions, but in the God of nature and harmony; the God you can see in the beauty that is the universe and everything in it."

There is a lot of suggestion towards intelligent design because of the way the universe works.

I find it somewhat dishonest of you to quote them and equate this somehow with intelligent design.

I wasn't using these quotes to in relation to the idea of intelligent design. I was using them to support the previous point about how certain academics place their faith in a different kind of God than the God from the scripture. The following statement was meant to be an introduction to a new point.

The laws of physics, to be created in such a perfect flawless way, in the "randomness" that we are supposed to live in, suggest that someone may have designed them.

There is no indication that the forces holding everything together and making everything work were created or even had a beginning. Conjectures don't make truth's my dear Watson.

You are right; simply because something exists doesn't mean it was created or had a beginning. However the point I'm trying to make is that based on what knowledge we do have, the universe had a beginning. Before it, there was nothing. There are some theories about other existing universes, and even some that claim the universe never had a beginning, however the Big Bang is what we take for fact.

If no creative force was controlling this beginning, then its mere existence would simply be random; along with all the rules and guidelines that this existence must follow. For these guidelines to be set up so perfectly tuned is extremely improbable.

Gravity has also been perfectly tuned.

(...) There are other theories out there that make the same predictions, but gravity in the universe works differently than the Einstein model of gravity, coincidentally, thing's observed that don't seem to work under the Einstein model do work under these newer models(...)

I can't speak for certain, because I haven't heard/seen of these models, however as long as they incorporate measurable laws expressible in mathematical physics, then they indeed are 'set' to a certain constant that makes everything related behave the way they do. The point here, again, is that for these laws and constants to be a random act, along with the beginning of the universe, would require this 'randomness' to produce seemingly impossible odds. It can be theorized as to what would happen if gravity was stronger or weaker, and either way would result in chaos.

Generally speaking, when you think about it, the universe, and us, according to atheists, should be impossible.

Interesting claim considering it's essentially false. This shows a remarkably poor understanding of what atheism is and what it asserts. Atheism alone says nothing about what reality is, what the universe is, where life came from or how it arose. (...)

Your right in asserting that it was ignorant of me to use the term "atheist" in my point. My point was meant to be directed to people who refuse to believe in intelligent design.

In all honesty, this is the first time I have ever heard such an explanation about atheism from an atheist(I am assuming); the "atheists" I was trying to refer to, are the ones who refuse to believe in any kind of creative force or intelligent design theories, regardless of whatever information is shown. It is a well known fact that many of these "atheists", especially the academics, go through ridiculous measures to scrutinize and destroy any other academic who even mentions that intelligent design is a possibility, or even something that deserves more a little more study. It is interesting the way you described a "natural" creative force, as I myself never consider anything to be supernatural; they are simply things that we do not yet understand, and have no ways of scientifically explaining them.

I do however, find it hard to understand how you seem to be against the idea of intelligent design, however assert that a creative force is a possibility. If there is a creative force, it has obviously designed nature in order to be compatible for life. In order to design nature, it would require intelligence.

I've attempted to develop my own theories of a creative "quantum" species that gave rise to reality, no one was really interested though. Pity really, it was rather interesting I thought.

I would like hear about this theory; I am always interested in subjects such as these.

Dear friend, your questions seem sincere and reasonable, and if you are coming from a background with no Christian influence... certainly understandable. I hope I can help.
The creation in terms of time. God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. This is a day in relation to man or God? God exists without the constraints of time... a thousand years is but a day unto the Lord when dealing with eternity So, yes, it is conceivable it was billions of years in man's time frame, but 6-7days in terms of God's clock. Some will say this is a bogus argument, but then defend the scientific theory of bending and folding time and space.
Why do we live in Hell? We don't live in Hell, we live in the world...man has made it Hell. Do you live in Hell? I live in a wonderful place... way out in the country. I farm, work hard, drive a truck, have a family-wife and kids. Yes we have challenges and troubles...such is life, but my faith in God makes the load easier to carry. Naive... stupid to believe? Iggnorant to believe in God and Jesus? Well, if you don't and you live in Hell and I do and am happy.... nuf said.
Why would God punish the human race for the acts of 1 person? Don't know...intend to ask Him when I see Him. I can only say that as a small child doesn't understand a parent when directed or punished, likewise, I don't understand everything God does or says...faith.
Who created God? don't know.... But I know He exist because He has answered my prayers so often... even when dealing with money, down to the penny. So many times, I would be short 30-40 dollars and would get a refund, or rebate, or a gift for just enough...not any left, but enough. Even now, I ask for opportunity not miracles. It is January, my work slows down and so does my pay..lol... but just this very day, I have had 3 people call up needing firewood which I sell. Now we have groceries and gas money.
Why not negative results of incest? I believe that as literally told, there are 2 accounts of creation...one in which God created man in general, and one in which Adam and Eve was created, thus beginning the geneology of Jesus, which is the central basis of the Bible, the history of Jesus and the church.
The Bible and religion was created to scare people into doing things. Like what? If I didn't believe in God I could go out and kill? Rape and pillage? Steal? Cheat on my wife? But because I trust in the Lord I honor my wife and family, I love my parents, I volunteer in the communty. No, I suggest you actually read the Bible. So much of what you have heard and seen is the result of man injecting man's beliefs into the Bible...a twisted form of christianity.
Look to Jesus' Sermon on the Mount( Matthew 5-6-7 New Testament)... love thy neighbor as thyself. If someone asks you to carry their burden 1 mile-carry it 2miles, forgive, be generous, judge not lest ye be judged.
I feel a real sadness because the TRUE Church has been distorted by the wicked agendas of so many hidding behind Christianity.
I believe in God and know Jesus... I carry a real peace in my heart. No, my life is not always easy and hasn't always been easy. I've been cold, hungry, mentally burdened, financially strapped, ostracized and socially persecuted... but through it all, Jesus and God showed me the way. God Bless You and I hope you overcome the questions and doughts and Hell of this world.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I have had Christian influences in my life but the older i got the less i believed i got no problem with people believing what they want to i just want to know why so many people do. There is one more question god is supposed to give you nothing you can't handle then why do people kill themselves because something bad happens to them? Like the problem we are in now there have been killings and sucides because of this right?

God said let there be ROCK!!!

[edit on 9-1-2010 by Gloster]

reply to post by gtasa234


I understand your rationale and empathize with you. I hope you reconsider your walk. Why do so many believe? ... Why do so many not believe?
I know why I believe. Many folks suffer all kinds of tragedy in life, I know I have. But I find a peace in my walk with Christ that sees me through the storm. I know each day is a new beginning, and that there is always hope.
This leads us to your other question...Why do so many commit suicide? Again, if we do not have a strong foundation in faith... we crumble in the face of lifes challenges. Some through drugs, some through alcohol, or sex, or material things, or money, or death....BUT in the end; they are not happy nor satisfied.
Case in point, I went through a divorce and a terrible custody battle with all kinds of accussations thrown at me. None were true, and although I didn't get my daughter, I was vindicated in the end.
My best friend from college went through a case almost identical... we compared notes, I talked to him on a Friday, by Monday...he was dead. Suicide. Why?
We can handle almost anything this world throws at us...but not by ourselves. We need God... for strength, courage, wisdom, guidance, as a moral compass, as a friend.
Do not mistake being religious for being Christian. Just because someone goes to work doesn't mean they are a worker. Many people, unfortunately see no hope and wish to end all hope of a tommorow with suicide.
My friend gave up any hope of reconciliation, visitation with his daughters, vacations at the beach, graduation, etc.
I hope and pray you find a closer walk with God someday.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


That's sad man luckly you did not do what he did. I know some people that don't follow god and they have made it though some things like that.
I do understand the reason people believe but it's just not me i don't mean to offend u hopefully i did not everybody is entitled to what they think.

I know 100% for certain that there IS a God, of this I have absolutely no doubt at all. And because I have chosen to show a little faith in God being real, he in turn has shown me many things over many years. I will always love God and no one can ever take it away from me. It all starts with you having faith that it is possible. If you are not willing to believe, that is also your choice.

reply to post by antideceit


how are you 100% sure there is one? Did you talk to him or see him or what. I would like if you explained that plz.

reply to post by gtasa234


No offense taken, I appreciate the opportunity to civily discuss and witness about God. Thats why Jesus said for us to be "fishers of men", some will bite and some will not. Hopefully, I have touched someone's heart.

Originally posted by gtasa234
reply to post by antideceit

 

how are you 100% sure there is one? Did you talk to him or see him or what. I would like if you explained that plz.

Yes I saw and spoke to Him, I was taken away in spirit form and God spoke to me.
I was very depressed before it happened and then I felt a presence in my room, and I felt it had to be God, so I said "God?" several times and then suddenly was taken away to some place in spirit form. I think the imagery that I saw was there for me, since it was something I could understand.

God was very happy and very friendly to me there and all he said was that the love I have always for him was very enheartening. Then he said he gives all of his love to me and then he offered me a life in his kingdom.
I was trying at the time to actually believe all of this was even happening at all, it seemed impossible that God would talk to me. Then I was thinking I had better respond to his offer, and then I said I accept and I also give him all of my love. I felt so content I didn't want to go from there, but I could tell it was time to get back to normal, and then I suddenly was back at home sitting up in a chair. I was never sleeping.
It took me several months to get back to normal after this event happened, I felt totally out of place being in the world, and it took quite awhile to get "used" to living in the world after that.
The last thing God said to me was that he wanted me to tell others of his great love for them. And this one thing I have found very difficult to do. The only people I have ever said it to was certain family or friends or people who already believe that God loves them , so they don't need to be told that. I don't think it is a quota type of thing at all, if it was then I would have been fired already.
The bottom line was that God told me he loved me and wanted me to let others know it too. There was only good feeling and love in that vision. I have since doubted the reality of what happened a few times in the past, but now I still have perfect memory of it and know it was real. Since that day I feel like God is always very close to me and I think about him all the time. and I also know that Christ is his Son with authority over everything and they are one together in the spirit.
For people that have absolutely no faith or belief in God, all I can say is: Would it hurt you too much to just entertain the possibility that it is all real and just give faith a chance? It wouldn't hurt anyone to give that belief a chance, Worse though, is if it really is all true , but you weren't even willing to attempt to believe in it, then what? In fact there have been many people that have and DO give faith a chance every day, and once they do, they know they took that step and that it was a good thing.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I wanted this to be a civil disscusion and it is unlike alot of threads bashing somebody for what they think. I would like some more arguments on both sides of this if anybody wants to.