I support the so-called depopulation agenda

yes, it does give the impression we are over populated,with everyone crammed into cities and areas that are fenced with artificial borders that some one dreamed up,there's plenty of land on earth for everyone, its just that some people think they are created to own a larger chunk of earth then anyone else.greed and power give the impression of over population. and there would be tons of food for everyone if we were allowed to grow it,instead of using land to grow trees for paper,and growing bio fuels instead of vegetables.you can see pictures of starving kids,and people feeding them some powdered concoction,but all around them there is barren land with nothing growing on it,because somebody else owns it and doesn't use it for the what its for,growing plants.or they are told to grow cotton to pay of a debt,then cotton prices are dropped and they are left with silos of cotton,and it could have been wheat,if they really wanted to stop world hunger they could,world hunger in the 3rd world is created on purpose,so its easier to bring in plans exactly like you are proposing,so they can get rid of the people they want to.

Originally posted by Iamherefornow
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I don`t care, I did not have any kids. So when I am gone thats it. I won`t have to worry what kind of hellhole my kids or grandkids will be left with because I did not have any. Thats a choice I made long ago, I saw where things were going.

Me too buddy, I made the exact same observation and decision at the age of seventeen. This world and it's people are far too primitive.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

reply to post by Goatflesh Gnosis

you are absolutely and 100% right on this. The sheer weight of our accelerating presence on this planet is quite plainly killing it, and us in the process. Think! If there were only 200 million people on the planet then they could all drive cars powered by coal and it wouldn't make one whit of a difference because the pollution generated by those cars could never overwhelm the earth's natural systems that cleaqnse and compensate. But now that the human pop. is at, what, 7 billion and counting(?), there3's all this cheery talk about "cutting our carbon footprint in half", like that's going to do any good when our population will double quite soon enough given the fact that our population grows exponentially rather than in a constant curve.

The plain fact is that we are running out of clean water and land for crops and animal husbandry. We have fouled the water and depleted the top soil. We are polluting the air that we and our favored animals breathe. We have introduced into our environment man-made chemicals and substances that do not breakdown in natural ways to the point where we now see children born on this planet with these substances already present in their bodies. The meat that we eat has these same substances imbedded within it. The fish are worst for this. In the middle of the pacific Ocean there now exists a huge island of crap, most of it of plastic manufacture, that just sits there, trapping fish, screwing with navigation and degrading the environment.

None of this stuff was inevitable. If we had listened to the environmental scientists back in the 60's and taken the necessary steps to curb our population growth we could all have really clean water to drink and our bodies could have been free of foreign substances. But, even though the danger was self-evident and the consequences, the crap that you and I are now finally having to deal with, were all graphically spelled out for all of us back then, our government, our religious leaders and big industry decided to just ignnore it instead. You can now see where that's gotten us.

I don't support the depopulation agenda the slightest bit. but i think that sterilization is the.."less evil" way to do it. i mean think about it,they can do it in much crueler ways if they chose to

Originally posted by angrymomma
reply to post by AGENTJa

 

I don't think the arguement to not have kids because of "the way kids are acting today" is a very valid one. You blame that crap on the PARENTS. Parents are the examples. Parents are the real teachers.

I disagree. Society is the problem rather than parents.

When you get old enough you no longer see the parent/child divide. Parents are but the children of their parents. To say the onus is on the parent is to say the onus is on the child. We are so cognitively, psychologically, emotionally and physically underdeveloped as a society we are all little more than children. Lost children. The contemporary adult does not represent the apex of our species.

The onus is instead on those intellectual enough to understand the aforementioned societal discrepancies.

This always makes me sad when you consider the productivities of the intellectuals in Nazi Germany.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

I think the population is fine as it is... maybe I am naive? The problem isn't overpopulation, it's because a small fraction of people in this world hog resources from the rest of their countrymen. Plus population density is a huge issue as well. Maybe I'm an idealist or optimist (a rare thing on ATS) but I have faith in the Human Race that we will be able to solve all problems relating to population issues without the use of violence. Listen, there is plenty of food and space left on this Earth. The problem is people decide to all pile themselves in one area, giving the illusion that the world is over populated.

The two largest continents in the world Asia and Africa still in many places have to catch up to the agricultural technology of the US. You know why the US used to be the #1 exporter of food? Technology. Machinery allowed us to utilize much land we weren't able to before. There is another technology coming that I want to keep an eye on, which is using water from the seas to grow crops. Think about it, if this could be perfected and fully utilized, no place on earth would ever be too dry to grow crops or ranch animals.

There is still plenty of room in the world.

Interesting. I will agree that the planet is dying and is telling us something. However, I don't believe we have a over population issue. We have a population concentration issue. Much of the world people are crammed into cities all over top of each other. And then all the cities are crammed into small areas. To add to the problem you have our current paradigm of the way we live. Humans are not allowed to grow in the proper way. We have senseless laws and rules that do nothing but cause issues and conflicts. Our use of the monetary system, and as much as some of you guys that don't want to hear that, is basically obsolete. Then our continued ignorance in insisting to use fossil fuels and nuclear energy for power.

If people were living in a REAL free society then the need to have so many children wouldn't be necessary. People have lots of kids now for basically insurance for themselves when they get old. When the things that are needed are provided for you without having to worry about how much money you got to pay for that allows people to actually be people. Many people call this Socialism. But its far from that. Overpopulation in my opinion is caused by the lack of freedom and knowledge. Not by people just having kids. People are having lots of kids for a reason not just because.

So if we change the way we do things we may actually see there is really other ways of living. Humans were designed to live in abundance- in awareness' and in resources. Meaning that it doesn't matter how many people are on the planet, its how we are situating ourselves geographically and our very obsolete way of life. When you step back and take a wholistic look at it then you see that its way bigger then just the people. The Japanese have tried the same thing with the limits on how many children their people have. It hasn't solved anything as stated in your estimates of global population in the next 10 years.

That's all I'm saying lets try something TOTALLY different. We may be really surprised at the outcome. I mean everyone here wants a high standard of living. Each and everyone of us. But in our money controlled society that's just not possible. So apparently there is a major problem with the monetary system because it has extremes of Haves and the Have Not's. There is no middle class, its an illusion. You just cant get into this without touching on these subjects. You cant realistically restrict it to just of the people having kids. Something is missing or severely construed to make this happen. Its the same with crime. People are either really twisted in their thought patterns from evil influences and lack of real love. The majority of the time the lacking of something major in their life is the main problem.

Cheers!!

If I were to control the fate of the world, maybe I would make the choice to depopulation too ... so really, I dont know what I would do, but if its really proved that we need that ... so be it

but another thing ... a lot of people do have children without having the money to support it ... and this is something that shouldnt happen but people are dumb ... so, we have a problem that cant be fixed through conventional means, ask voluntary sterilization ... so, maybe poison in the water is a good thing ... but I dont think its working !

reply to post by Gorman91


I see what you are saying about love, but to say that one is "not letting you live" because they practice safe/responsible sex is being overly dramatic. By that logic, consider your millions of bretheren that did not make it to the egg before you. Perhaps you did not allow THEM to live? To take it even further, one could say that not having sex 24/7 is a form of "not letting somebody live."

Again, I'm not forcing anything on anybody, and if I am "subjugating my own moral code on others" by stating my opinion on how some people live their lives, then would you not be equally guilty? After all, you are telling me what my business is (or is not), as well as basically telling me to "live and let live". That's all fine and dandy, until one day when the billions of humans on this planet are just "living and letting live"...that should go over well. We share this planet, it is only fair that we all at least attempt to come to a compromise on how we interact with each other. It does not take a genius to realize that when two bad apple parents (or one in many cases) neglect a child, chances are good that child is going to turn around and become the same. The apple does not fall far from the tree. If we think people are getting beyond crazy now, imagine that crap we're going to be dealing with in 20 years, now that the family structure in our society has all but bought the farm. Children are the future of our species...for their sake and ours, I'd rather not place that bet on "live and let live".

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Cantthinkofaname]

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Cantthinkofaname]

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I cant believe any HUMAN would support this atrocity!!!! Sterilisation?!!!! More likely genocide, simply because if they have no children, who will support them when they grow old?

Who is going to take care of my sterilized self when I get old? Hopefully my money that I've saved will, but it might be the same people who most likely be taking care of you: the nursing home staff.

Don't even start with that line: MY children won't let me go to a nursing home. Just ask anyone who works in nursing home how many of their residents are childless. Ask who signs the papers for grandma.

I think it's pretty selfish to create a person so they can spend their adult life taking care of your crusty old behind. That's assuming they will physically, mentally, and financially able to do it. What if they can't? What is your Plan B?

As someone who never had children, I've had that self-righteous comment thrown in my face many a time. I always get the impression from people who make it that they somehow, in the face of all statistics, think they have some kind of superior genes that they MUST propagate. It sure is funny to witness the teary-eyed women where I work, blubbering on the boss' desk about how little Snookums is so disrespectful/ out of control/ need to be on meds/ has whatever the current diagnosis is that keeps him from achieving his full potential, and can they have a day off for another parent/teacher conference? Yeah, they signed a one-way ticket to hell when they had that kid, and they are going to trust their old age to him. Good luck!

One more point. Not ONE woman I can think of has had a normal pregnancy and baby. None. All have had some kind of premature birth, pre-eclampsia, whatever, and little Precious spend days in the neonatal ICU. The more premature the baby, the less likely it will have normal, not to mention superior intelligence, so good luck on the little investment that you are stuck with for the next 18 years--or longer.

I'll take my chances with my money, it's less of a gamble.

reply to post by sticky


The choice can be made, but it isn't. People love people, and kids. I don't see why, but that's not the point. If you have the option to have kids, nine out of ten times, you will. People don't see why not. And in our society it is the norm. If you're 50 and never had kids as a choice, that's looked at as outrageous. If this offer was made, there would be a obvious reason for those who don't see the overpopulation, or reason not to have kids; food. Not only that, but free food. Plus, more "elbow room."

reply to post by rexusdiablos


I agree with you that environment plays a big factor. But the more parents that don't give a rats ass about their kids, the worse the kids get, hence the environment gets worse. You multiply by millions of bad kids and that is where your environment comes in. I believe a good upbringing starts in the home but that is just me.

On topic:
I do agree that it is not overpopulation but how everything is managed. I don't think we should be so worried about depopulation but more worried about the education of people in a certain area where there is a problem. Maybe I'm just biased because of this lil guy:



Or the fact that I found out on Sunday that I am about 6 weeks preggo

reply to post by asmall89


Many valid points. But, wouldn't you want to share the world with other beings? Animals and plants are continually dying because of where we're at now. I'm sure you can only imagine what will happen when the population grows to 12 billion. 12 billion. Even if we had enough room, which maybe we do, would you really want 12 billion humans here? That would suck! Once we get to 12 billion, where does it stop? We'll soon be at 20 billion, then 30. My point is, humans destroy. we already have 6 billion destroyers and more coming. Even if we have plenty room, shouldn't we be decent enough to share it with all other beings? What makes us good enough to dominate the entire world and leave nothing for the others? Are we really THAT selfish?

My view is simple. Population control is unnecessary. If overpopulation is as bad as they say it is, the problem will take care of itself. People will die off "naturally" because of starvation, thirst, wars or environmental problems.

It's a horrible thing to have happen, but it's probably no worse than living in a society where the government makes all the personal choices for you that would be required to enforce population control.

Originally posted by Iamherefornow
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I don`t care, I did not have any kids. So when I am gone thats it. I won`t have to worry what kind of hellhole my kids or grandkids will be left with because I did not have any. Thats a choice I made long ago, I saw where things were going.

I'm sorry you have had such a bad life. My life has been pretty good. I don't have a lot but I have enough. I work hard at things I enjoy. I pulled myself out of poverty without any help. I educated myself by doing a good job for others so they would teach me to do it myself and they did. My office supports seven families right now. All of this because I live in such a wonderful country.

ATS is not reality, it is conspiracy theories. Most of this is not real. Overpopulation is. The reason we no longer overpopulate in the Western World is education. That is the answer, not force.

Any other country could have done the same. Nothing is stopping them except themselves and the evil people they allow to lead them. Yes, I said allow. No government can stand up to a united people unless they allow it.

People who pretend to care need to prove it instead of just throwing wild ideas around is what I'm saying. The poor in this country are very fortunate by world standards. Odd they do most of the complaining and anything they can to avoid educating themselves and working for what they want instead of expecting the government to do everything for them. The people in charge could care less about you and me. Relying on them is insane. Giving them the power to dictate how many children we can have is even more insane.

I too care about the future. I want our wildly successful Capitalist, Free Society to continue and the Socialists, Marxists and Mao groupies to fail so they don't destroy it all.

Did you know there was a Christmas ornament featuring a picture of Mao on one of the White House Christmas Trees? They can't deny it, people took pictures. They won't even answer questions about it. I've seen photo's of it on two different news programs.

Mao once said he was willing to sacrifice 300 million of his own citizens to get what he wanted, as I mentioned earlier. Now his face is in our White House. Be very afraid. Bush was an Angel compared to this bunch and I don't like Bush either.

I don't think its any accident these types of discussions are suddenly showing up with rabid supporters posting. They are starting the dialogue to soften people up. Be very, very afraid.

We are not evil people the liars and illiterates of the world claim we are. They are though.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


It was your decision though. Nobody forced it on you.

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis

My plan would be -- offer ANYONE free food for life if they agree to sterilization.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Goatflesh Gnosis]

So if I don't agree I don't get food? and if I do I cant have a kid?!!!!!! That is SELF-ish to say. Mother earth provides all the food and energy you could possibly even began to imagine,for free, the world is NOT overpopulated all the people of the world could fit in Texas or Australia without a doubt. Everybody I mean EVERY-BODY could live like Kings and Queens with unlimited amounts of food, clothes, wealth, etc, on this planet. But it has been controlled for the profits of the "Powers that be", the Elitist, the SELFISH.

This depopulation has been going on for thousands of years for means of further controlling humanity, it's been happening through wars, plagues, diseases, etc, all pre-planned and controlled!

WAKE UP to the Gods that we truly are, do not be decieved, realize that everything came from that same SOURCE that same ONE that same INFINITE CREATOR/UNIVERSAL SPIRIT! Love yourself and you will learn to Love others!

I am sorry for my foul language but this deception cannot advance any further, I cant stand and listen to this type of -- coming out from my own brothers and sisters mouth! REALIZE!

Love and Light to all!

[edit on 6-1-2010 by alien]

I agree with the OP.

Passive depopulation is way overdue. A lot of people get caught up in the "but look how much land there is!" argument. The truth is that the Earth's resources are limited and much of the land is uninhabitable for basic human needs. Humans don't want to live like animals where they have to get by on a tiny piece of land so that more people can fit in.

The task to keep most of the world fed, healthy and entertained is a difficult one. It will only become more difficult as the Global Population increases more and more as the years go by. For every new person conceived, the more strain and pressure there will be placed on people already here.

We are at a point in time where the average quality of life is deteriorating due to the rapid increase in the quantity of lives. At some point, we will have to curb population growth to prevent the downfall of humankind.

[edit on 6/1/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Cantthinkofaname


the difference is my way is inclusive, yours is exclusive. My way allows you to do whatever it is you want to do, and others to do their way. Your way limits only your way, not allowing any other way.

Also, a human is not a human until conception. Until then, the egg and sperm are nothing more than cells from the parent like skin cells falling off. They will die and nothing will happen. Only when a new genome forms is it a new entity that begins a series of chemical chain reactions that lead to an adult eventually. The logic is clear, you just fail to see the obvious.

The simple fact is what you are describing is eugenics. Your group decides who of another group is worthy, and everyone else is screwed. That is not allowed in modern society. And just so you know, people were just as crazy as now as they were back then. The media simply has nothing else to report. I don't really give a damn about what you want to do. I have my opinions and my rights to raise my children as I wish. That's the difference between us. You would have me only raise my children by your definition, as opposed to my liberal method, in which anyone can raise their own children as they see fit. Weather they grow up screwed up is honestly none of your damn business, because they're not your children.

Again, as long as a child isn't being put in a cage, starved, punched, etc etc, you have no right to say what is good and what is bad. And in all honesty, if you think any government can can successfully say who is good and who is bad, let alone properly manage reproduction, you're delusional right there. No entity or being or group should have any right over another other than to insure their life liberty and pursuit of happiness by arresting criminals WHEN they act or before they act WITH suitable evidence, and removing those forces which would seek control.


The simply fact is you are taking the side of control I am taking the side of liberalism. Liberalism is right, control is wrong. End of story. If the world should end for that reason, better to die free then under the control of another.

i don't have a problem with the OP as it was written, for the most part.
and i definitely don't see it as 'insane' or 'inhumane' with the operative word in the OP being 'voluntary'.

i'm not sure if the world is over-populated or whether or not it would be able to sustain 6 billion more people in another 100 years ...

what we do know though is that, right now, 100s of 1000s of kids and families are NOT being sustained and are dying of starvation and disease and they have been for years. if millions of dollars of aid can be given to help support these people every year ... i don't see why some of that money can't go towards more permanent solutions. i also think giving incentives is a great idea.

furthermore i think all the restrictions on adoption, nationally and internationally, should be lessened. while millions of people world-wide would be only to happy to adopt starving kids from third-world countries and give them better lives ... draconian laws prohibit it or make it practically impossible.