Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

reply to post by Rivyolie

Dolphin is a dolphin, a pig is a pig, a human is a human. "Person" does not equal human. A person is a self-conscious or rational being. Or, a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. If dolphins share that same distinction, theen of course they are persons. We would simply have to stop using human and person interchangably.

No, that is nonsensical…as are most arguments about ‘cuddly’ animals. We don’t have to stop using a word - ‘person’ - defined as denoting a human as distinct from an animal just because some moronic scientist has for the 300th time done some research which says what was found twenty or thirty years ago, that dolphins are very intelligent. You are all acting as if you have never heard such a thing…whilst munching on some poor animal. Elephants are intelligent and emotional…pigs are intelligent…ants are fascinating. Spiders are very interesting too, but most of you will purposely kill them. I have known people become hysterical to the point of near violence at the thought of a seal being bashed over the head….only to see them march off to the kitchen to bludgeon some piece of dismembered cow and then eat it…..so don’t insult a dolphin by calling it a person. And whichever scientist came up with this nonsense needs a dunking in the ocean…. ‘non-human person‘ my arse. Sounds like Obama’s advisor who feels that a border collie is of more use than a mentally challenged three year old human child…and that trees should be able to sue…..ho hum.

reply to post by blackthorne


Crows have no arms. They use their feet. Life finds a way.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
As far as I'm concerned anything coming from the sea is sea food. like the bible says, man has dominace over animals.

Unless some of you think animals should have dominance over man? Strange world we live in.

Once again the Bible seems to give us the excuse to act like jerks over Gods other creatures.

reply to post by arbiture


Dominion means to care for. Some people take dominion as another word to "f*ck around with". Those people are not right. The president has dominion over the nation. Does he have a right to eat you? No. Dominion is not a right. It is a responsibility. Humans are the only species capable of helping animals and preserving them. IE, dominion is just like a shepherd having dominion over his flock. Care for it, or get eaten by the wolves.

Originally posted by arbiture

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
As far as I'm concerned anything coming from the sea is sea food. like the bible says, man has dominace over animals.

Unless some of you think animals should have dominance over man? Strange world we live in.

Once again the Bible seems to give us the excuse to act like jerks over Gods other creatures.

I don't have a problem with eating animals, if your in to that. It's quite natural to a point. However invoking terror and using pain as we often do in "handling" animals we use for food is just not something we need to do to stay alive. Another example of stupid human tricks...

I agree, but this gets into a tricky debate. How do you presume to know what constitutes intelligence? Either every mammal is food, or none are. You can't pick and choose when the data suits your stance. I'm for all of them not being food btw.

reply to post by Gorman91


on his own, stephen hawkings can not build a tool and can only talk by a very special tool built for him. by standards, he would not be considered intelligent.

crows also have a pretty good beak they use as well.

Originally posted by Mythtified
Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

Seriously...How smart could they be if so many die in this fashion?

You'd think they would learn!

Originally posted by daveinok
I have a smart phone, it talks to me sometimes. Should it have rights too? Seriously, this is silly, but thanks for making me laugh today.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
Can a dolphin build a house? Can a dolphin drive a car? NO
I don't know how a fish can be intelligent.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
As far as I'm concerned anything coming from the sea is sea food. like the bible says, man has dominace over animals.

Unless some of you think animals should have dominance over man? Strange world we live in.

Oh yes these posts really show how intelligent and superior we humans are...

Really.. It's painful to read these kinds of comments, since I'm supposed to be of the same species as the guys who wrote this stuff.. I'm so glad I have another view on this.. Like I already said in my previous post, being smart is not measured by the amount of technology, but people seem to think otherwise.. And that's the exact part that makes people more stupid than a lot of other beings out there..

I'm not trying to offend anyone, it's just that I can't stand unjustifiable arrogance. It's like 90% of our population are simply children who don't want any responsibility, cry when they don't get what they want or hear what they don't want to hear, and love to watch explosions, are so in love with their little toy car and baby phone, and misuse everything without thinking of the consequences.

Having power to do something or use something, does not mean that you have the right to, and also does not mean that you are better, and certainly not smarter, than anything or anyone else out there. If you misuse that power, you, are actually not entitled to have it in the first place, and thus considered a too low of a being for it. And that's exactly what I'm seeing here.. Pure arrogance born from ignorance..

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by Mythtified

 

its so sad what people do to animals, and all because they think they are superior or more entitled than animals. Why? Becuz the bible says so? that is a lie. humans are no more entitled to life and space on this planet than any other animal, and its about time we started respecting other animals we share it with AS EQUALS and as having RIGHTS too. just like TREES should have rights. and all nature, since all is equal.

of course dolphins are intelligent.
octopus also should have rights and squid.
as should pigs, on the basis of intelligence,
and all sorts of monkeys and apes,
and dogs and cats,
and beavers,
and wolves,
and many other creatures,
including elephants, that demonstrate great intelligence.

actually crows are known to be more advanced tool users probably than chimps.
why dont crows have rights?
its known that parrots can do maths and talk,
but birds have no rights.

humanity frustrates me.

What do you mean humanity frustrates you? It natural selection, survival of the fittest, evolution. Should we start ticketing cats for killing mice or lions for stealing a meal from a cheeta, or the cheeta for killing the thompsons?

While there is room to argue that we kill alot of animals needlessly, killing animals for food is perfectly fine.

It frustrates me that portions of humanity say we aren't superior to these animals yet expect us to act like we are by not eating them, where's the logic behind that

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by blackthorne

 

Crows have no arms. They use their feet. Life finds a way.

Dolphins don't even have feet. 100% flippers where arms and legs would be.

Originally posted by joey_hv

Originally posted by Mythtified
Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

Seriously...How smart could they be if so many die in this fashion?

You'd think they would learn!

How would you survive if they randomly blowed up a bomb once in a while on the planet, without knowing when they're gonna strike next?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by vasaga]

Every night... every night they come. You think Flipper's smiling at you, ? You think he's happy to be in that goddamn tank? No. He's... he's smiling because he's thinking. Thinking about sucking your mom's guts out through her nostrils. Thinking about the day they leave his tank a little too open, just so he can clamp those meateaters down on some little kid's face. Ever seen an eight-year-old girls' lungs? It ain't pretty. Especially when a dolphin's blowin' 'em up like a big goddamn meat balloon.

Dolphins are terrible creatures.

reply to post by blackthorne


yes. Crows have beaks, they can use their tools. Steven Hawkins 400 years ago would not be capable of doing any good. He should be cared for, because he's human. But 400 years ago he'd just be another person in a bed for life. He would not be capable of learning all he knows now, because he would not be in the right circumstances to be who he is today.

Very simply put, if there was a species that could not show nay signs of intelligence, but was smarter than man, then primitive man would have no use of this species, and you cannot judge their actions based on their ignorance. In all honesty, mankind would be greater. Again, innovation and the ability to imagine and innovate is what makes you special. Intelligence is just how much crap you can shove into your brain.

So your point is defeated. because when it comes to circumstances, a species incapable of communicating its intelligence and using it is not intelligent. it can never surmount to anything. It can only be intelligent, it can never be innovative and imagine. As such, it is not important.

Well I believe that racoons should be locked up as criminals or potential non-human persons with criminal intent. They steal food wear a mask and are very crafty at breaking into secured areas such as garbage cans and dumpsters. They scale fences and even scale buildings to gain access to rooftops. They are truley a menace to society.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by JBA2848]

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


What a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing. I think that's the nicest thing I've read here for weeks.

For anyone who thinks dolphins are just wonderful and cute though really should do some research. As well as having every human virtue they also have every human sin.

I did a paper about ten years back and came to the conclusion that the only trait evident in humans but not proven in the animal kingdom was religion. Seriously everything else you can find elsewhere in nature, from tool use to homebuilding, from alcoholism to self medication, from deceit to altruism.
With religion we have not proven that there isn't one in the animal kingdom, we just know that we have been unable to find or recognise evidence of religion.

As an aside. Some mountain gorillas in Africa were believed to have an appreciation of beauty. Why? Because every morning after breakfast they would climb the slopes of the jungle, a long way from their feeding grounds to to the edge of a high cliff around which there was very little food. They would spend all day gazing out over the valley to a beautiful waterfall on the other side. They all behaved very calmy and relaxed and only returned to normal gorilla behaviour when they headed down the slopes in late afternoon to feed. Who are we to say they aren't displaying a spiritual side.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by spookfish]

reply to post by Bobbox1980


Yes. And look how well they use them. Somehow a species like dolphins knows how to use military equipment. But it can only be a pet. Taught, but never innovate. Again, until you can take what you learn and do something with it, you can never be equal to humanity. You can teach an ape sign language, and that ape can teach it to others. But until humans came down and taught them it, they would never have done it themselves.

You can argue that most humans never do this, and that only some humans do the inventing. Indeed this is a good point. But surmountable evidence has shown that any random individual given tools can create something from their imagination that works. Once again, we see elephants painting. But we've never seen them do this on their own. Humans instinctively show their thoughts and ideas onto items. Creativity, that being imagination, and innovation, are what make you something worthy. Anything else is just an advanced copy paste machine.

-dp

[edit on 4-1-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by spookfish


Show me factual observations of the gorillas, and I will believe they have souls.

Originally posted by DeathShield
Every night... every night they come. You think Flipper's smiling at you, ? You think he's happy to be in that goddamn tank? No. He's... he's smiling because he's thinking. Thinking about sucking your mom's guts out through her nostrils. Thinking about the day they leave his tank a little too open, just so he can clamp those meateaters down on some little kid's face. Ever seen an eight-year-old girls' lungs? It ain't pretty. Especially when a dolphin's blowin' 'em up like a big goddamn meat balloon.

Dolphins are terrible creatures.

I dont even know what to say other than that is grotesque I had no idea that animals made such terrible people. . . . evil indeed

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