Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

reply to post by Bobbox1980


Oh my friend, here's a surprise. Elephants do farm!. Well, sort of. They actually clear the land in some places around waterholes. Almost the most primitive forms of civilization. If I find it, I'll show you a photo.


Also, we humans had little more then caves and fruit. Art is not that important until you get a civilization going and you want to save what you make. Until then. you're a settled or mobile hunter gatherer.

They very much so can modify their environment. They just do it their own way. Also, as I said above, animals automatically pick up more efficient methods. They cannot innovate nor imagine beyond what they have. But once they see something better, they will take it up and use it. Your words make me interested in linking an animal to a humanoid robot, and controlling it. See what they do.

Originally posted by Mythtified
that is based on a lengthy and painstaking research project that you have not been part of, yet discard as "retarded".

The reason it is retarded is because they spent money and countless hours "researching" only to determine Dolphins were smart and had personalities.

THIS is the Definition of Retarded!

First grade children know these facts without spending a dime$ or wasting a minute of their day.

Therefore Retarded.

One thing I've noticed, is the Animal Rights movement has made HUGE leaps and bounds in the past 5-10 years. Back in the early 2000s, many people still believed animals lacked the most basic emotions, but nowadays people consider their pets a part of their family.

I'm so confused. Dolphins kill sharks for sport. They eat fish as they are pure carnivores. Should Dolphins have more rights than animals of lesser intelligence? If it is wrong for us to kill animals of less intelligence, why is it not wrong for Dolphins to kill animals of less intelligence, especially for sport as they do with Sharks, many of whom are also endangered?

Herbivores get all of the B vitamins they need to stay alive through the eating of insects on their forage and browse. Should they be stopped from eating animals of lesser intelligence even if it is their natural food?

The hippocracy in these debates is breathtaking in its absurdity.

Bonobo Chimps, who by the way are considered the second most intelligent Mammals by many scientists, engage in wars, cannibalism and prefer meat when available. Should we perhaps open up Primate Courts of Law and Primate Prisons?

Polar Bears are pure Carnivores. They kill and eat anything that moves. There numbers have increased from a few hundred to over 20,000 individuals over the last few decades. Before long they will pose a real threat to the endangered Seals in their habitat they feed upon. Which one lives, the Polar Bears or Seals? Who decides.

The over-protection of Otters and Seals along the Pacific Coast is endangering the mollusks they feed on as their numbers increase dramatically. Who lives? The Otters and Seals or the Mollusks?

Without the availability of animal protein and meat in our diets, millions if not a billion or more would die if we suddenly stopped eating meat. Who makes that decision?

My personal belief is that where animals are concerned, we should only kill what we eat and never kill for sport. As long as fisherman are as careful as current technology allows to not kill or injure other animals like Dolphins, they should be protected from irrational extremists and left alone.

As to the right or wrong of commercial aquariums or related theme parks, they will always represent the majority point of view or they will go bankrupt. If people stop going, they cease to exist. Simple economics.

In this list, Primates and Elephants are listed as being smarter than Dolphins.

This site lists only the Chimps as being smarter than Dolphins.

Jane Goodall listed the top three as Great Apes, Whales & Dolphins and Elephants in that order.

Originally posted by LordBucket
...so again, by this logic...it's ok to imprison and kill stupid humans?

I'm all for imprisoning stupid humans.

reply to post by The Killah29


That's called eugenics.

reply to post by vasaga


I didnt say I was the most intelligent specimen of the human species, I said, we as a collective, The Human Species is indeed the most intelligent life form in this planet - in THIS planet - and so far since we have no proof at all of anything that lies outside of our planet, we are - so far - the most intelligent species we've came across.

I like dolphins but putting a dolphin at human level in terms of intelligence its just a bit too much.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

So there ya go... yes we're the top dogs in this planet. And that doesnt include 3 year olds... 3 year olds cant even do a simple math equation

and 3 year olds dont have the same rights as other human beings, like they cant vote, they cant have sex, they cant drive a car, they cant buy alcohol, they can't marry, etc...

[edit on 4-1-2010 by FraternitasSaturni]

They may not have the same rights but they do have some rights. For example, they have a right to life don't they?

No one is suggesting dolphins be given the vote, however, by legally defining them as persons they could be given appropriate protections such as the right to not be killed or tortured or to have their habitat destroyed. You wouldn't be allowed to keep a three year old captive in a zoo and make it perform tricks so why is it acceptable to do the same to a creature that has the same if not greater intelligence?

Just to reiterate the '3 year old' reference was about chimps. This new report is suggesting that, in fact, dolphins are smarter than that but doesn't give an equivalent human intelligence level for them. However, we can infer that a dolphin is at least as intelligent as a three year old and probably more so.

Originally posted by vasaga

Originally posted by joey_hv

Originally posted by Mythtified
Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

Seriously...How smart could they be if so many die in this fashion?

You'd think they would learn!

How would you survive if they randomly blowed up a bomb once in a while on the planet, without knowing when they're gonna strike next?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by vasaga]

Uh...yeah, I think after seeing one of my buddys get blown up, I would definetely run in the opposite direction of the big, loud bang thingy.

Some of your replies are beyond ridiculously humorous. How arrogant we are. OOOOOH, nothing could possibly even be close, and certainly not surpass, to the human intelligence. Pffft, I've seen dogs smarter than some people I have known.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
One thing I've noticed, is the Animal Rights movement has made HUGE leaps and bounds in the past 5-10 years. Back in the early 2000s, many people still believed animals lacked the most basic emotions, but nowadays people consider their pets a part of their family.

The 2000's????????

I was born in the 1970's. I realized very early on that animals possess basic emotions and intelligence. As early as 1980, or maybe sooner. Not because that's when animals became intelligent, but because that's when I had learned enough to understand.

Anyone who has ever had a pet knows that animals are "people" too.

When you become aware of your own intelligence, it is requisite that you recognize the intelligence of others. Anyone that fails to do that is an idiot.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
One thing I've noticed, is the Animal Rights movement has made HUGE leaps and bounds in the past 5-10 years. Back in the early 2000s, many people still believed animals lacked the most basic emotions, but nowadays people consider their pets a part of their family.

Just because they possess intelligence and or emotions in no means that they should have "rights". Yes they should be treated with kindness in most circumstances. Especially if they are pets. And their health should be looked after as well. That goes for any domesticated animals or captivated animals.

But by no means should humans be restricted from eating them or working them or any other thing.

With that said, cruelty of any kind is stupid and mean regardless if committed against a human or mouse. The only time cruelty is acceptable is when it becomes necessary to aid in the survival or protection of the one who is committing the act. Even then, a wise person shall exhaust all other means prior to resorting to cruelty.

Use some common sense people. How are you going to enforce a law prohibiting a cat from torturing and eating a mouse?

Mice are smart too. Yet, scientists torture them daily.




[edit on 5-1-2010 by slimpickens93]

I just think we as a species need to show a little more restraint and a little more respect for animals. Even the ones we use to support our own lives, I think we should give thanks that they left this life so we could continue ours. You know, I dont think about it when I order a chicken sandwich or when I eat a steak, but when I think long and hard about how we get the things we need its disgusting. I mean Im all for getting what I need to support myself, and no more...but instead the practices that are used to support the world (especially in the US) are inhumane and immoral, since they are extremely wasteful.

Perhaps, wihout sounding like a wack job sun eater or vegan, we could refine the way we 'harvest' other species, maybe down to an exact science instead of a profit farm that doesn care about the end usage and waste of their 'product'.

Im no hippie, so please don't burn me for saying these things. Im a Texan and if you eat beef, bet you're eating Texas beef (from a friend of mines ranch near Dallas no doubt). However, showing respect for animals is a key attribute that we as the caretakers of this planet should throw around a little more often instead of using this planet like its ours...which its not.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Now that is very insightful. The food chain. When ever we interfere with the balance of any nature, yeah humans is nature too, then we cause an imbalance that has led to the problems that we see today.

'Non Human' Persons , so basically this is saying that dolphins are aliens ,is this the 'aliens are real' disclosure we've all been waiting for?, wow Aliens on our doorstep.

I'm wondering when the human race stopped being animals?

Humans are animals of the Homo genus just as Dolphins are animals of the Lissodelphis genus, regardless of ability.

Maybe instead of giving dolphins a shady status of "non human persons", whatever that is, we should just stop killing them and destroying their environment?

I'm sure the dolphins couldn't care less about human standards and rights and hierarchies. They'd pretty much prefer to be left alone.

To the posters who say that dolphins are actually quite vicious killers and rapists, so are some humans. While other humans and dolphins are not. The myths about dolphins rescuing humans are, well, not myths.

Check out these links:

Gang of dolphins save swimmers from shark attack:

www.cbc.ca...

Beluga whale saves diver:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

(Yes, I know, a whale, not a dolphin, but still, a cetacean)

reply to post by Wallachian


Actually, a Beluga whale is a toothed whale, as are dolphins.

reply to post by davesidious


Erm, yeah, and? Did I say something in contradiction to that?

Still a whale is not a dolphin and still they're both cetaceans.

reply to post by Wallachian


I was saying they're both far more closely related than you said, that they're both in the same suborder ('Odontoceti'), and in the same superfamily ('Delphinoidea'), instead of only being in the same order ('Cetacea') as you said.