2012: Did it ever occur to anyone that just maybe...

The 3600 year cycle is backed up by ice core records

There is more to our solar system than we have been told for sure.

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
... the religious zealots have been right, all along...? For SCIENTIFIC Reasons!

It's really amazing to me, how the masses can be so obtuse - I mean, we all recognize that the universe is a violent place:
- stars are born all the time,
- stars die all the time,
- cosmic objects collide all the time,
- cosmic objects influence one another all the time through gravity, EM forces, radiation, etc

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss that EARTH could be affected by outside forces just as all other stellar entities, especially considering that the evidence is there that we've been impacted BEFORE! Moreover, why is it so hard to come to grips with the fact that NOW may be one of those times? Jesus... Wake UP!

First of all I have to congratulate you on a good thought here in these end times we are experiencing. The Earth is affected by cosmic forces. Some of these forces we humans, who can actually see very little in the light spectrum, see with our own eyes. We have seen comets, and meteor showers, and we have watched the Discovery Channel, some anyway, and learned a few things about planetary mechanics. The Universe is not random, it is Ordered by a long lost Creator we have no knowledge about, but some of us can feel the presence and inner being like life that most all crave, this is why religious worship so appeals to humanity, they are hard wired for worship.

Intelligent men/women do not decide any subject... until they have carefully examined both or all sides of it. Fools, cowards, and those too lazy to think, accept blindly, without examination, dogmas and doctrines imposed upon them in childhood by their parents, priests, and teachers, when their minds were immature and they could not reason.

I am not a religious person. Not in the slightest - But the SCIENCE suggests that from a historical perspective, a lot of what has been written down over the ages carries some weight.

Quit burying your heads, people.

I agree. I see a lot of humanity that still has their heads firmly planted in the sand. They have eyes to see, but religion has from early childhood brainwashed them so that they have no mind of their own, but rather follow like so many sheep to what well may be a slaughter. I too think that the Ancients, the people of Olden times did write down and record their lives, events in their lives and on their world, beings they encountered things they saw, and tried to describe are absolutely true, as true as the original authors saw it to be true. Did not Plato write about Atlantis? And are not men searching for it as I write this, and maybe someone already found it and is using technology found there to format and implement a full take over? (in a human sense of the word) I too think it is time for all [Christians, Muslims and any other Book Religions to wake up from their slumber and see the world for what it is. Stop looking in an old book that you do not even begin to understand, and look Inside for the answers you seek. If that which you seek cannot be found inside your own self, then you will never find it.

Practically EVERY religion speaks of planetary cataclysms, horrific human tragedies, beings from the sky carried 'in the bodies of wingless birds', a great flood... the similarities are endless - across cultures that would've had NO interaction with one another.

Spend some time examining the SCIENCE around some of these theories.

I have, and again I agree with you. However I do see that humans explored a lot that modern man knows nothing about. For instance, Columbus. He discovered America, right?

Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney

Holy Bloodline: Saint Claire’s

Preparations for the Voyage

Prince Henry commissioned Antonio and Nicolo Zeno, the brothers of Carlo Zeno "the Lion" of Venice, to draw a map of the north Atlantic region. The resulting "Zeno Map" was so accurate that sailors of all nations used it for the next 300 years. Recently the military aerial photographic maps have found thirty-seven points of identity with the Zeno Map! In addition, Sinclair reassigned some of his land holdings to his brothers, in case he should not return from this dangerous voyage.
The Actual Expedition

In 1398, Prince Henry set sail with 200-300 men in twelve tiny ships. Antonio Zeno was the navigator and recorder of the fleet's log, which is called the "Zeno Narratives." The voyage took the explorers to Faeroes, Iceland, Greenland, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and to New England. They had harmonious contacts with the Micmac Indians throughout at least one year. Several archaeological artifacts remain to validate their miraculous adventure. They are the Zeno Narratives and Zeno Map, a Venician cannon in Nova Scotia, the Micmac Indian legends, and a rock carving in Westford, Massachusetts. Some researchers believe that Sinclair and his group built the Newport Tower in Rhode Island. Antonio Zeno reported about Henry Sinclair, "If ever there was a man who is worthy of a mortal memory, it is this man [Henry Sinclair] because of his great bravery and goodness".
Accomplishments Were Not Announced to the World

Unfortunately, Henry returned and was soon slain in an ambush in Orkney. It is thought that his assassination was ordered by the Hanseatic League to rid itself of such a powerful rival. To make sure that Prince Henry Sinclair's trans-Atlantic achievements were not followed up, the Hansea arranged to have Sinclair's son, also named Henry, arrested at sea while escorting the Crown Prince of Scotland to France for safekeeping. Henry and the King's son were confined for the next fourteen years in an English prison. His other son, William grandson, was content to live in regal comfort in his Rosslyn Castle, where he designed and constructed Rosslyn Chapel. It was adorned with stone carvings, including corn and cactus, not here-to-for known in the Old World. Antonio Zeno also died immediately upon his return voyage. Only Prince Henry's daughter, Elizabeth is credited with passing the story of the epic voyage along to her son, John. He proudly told his in- laws, one of whom was the wife of Christopher Columbus! Later, the Zeno Narratives were discovered, providing the world with a more definitive report of Prince Henry's voyage.

Source: bgrahamonline.com...

Columbus had large Templar Symbols on his Sails! Surely he had a Templar maps for the voyage.

THE SANTA MARIA

Santa María (ship)

I would also like to suggest that EVERY conspiracy theory (at least the more 'popular' ones) discussed on this site can be considered as evidence, necessity and preparation for what lies ahead.

Or, keep on with your Facebook updates, soccer games, PTA meetings, corporate mergers, dinner parties, Vegas vacations*, and just pretend nothing will ever happen.

You're welcome.

I would also agree here, it is time to prepare. Not prepare for some being to come save us all, or even some of us, it ain't going to happen. We have to "save" ourselves. The machinery will take you through, if that is what you want, and you can live another lifetime here on Earth....it will be pristine again, like our bread in memories of the Garden, sometimes called Eden, or Edin, in the Sumerian tongue. Or, you can move on out, as they say, and go to another world, or place in time and space, which are one and the same, actually. Time for the ancient secrets to be known, the Emperor will again have no clothes to wear, and will be fully exposed to all of us. Things are going to change. Things will disappear, and appear. People will vanish. Monsters will appear, fake Gods will appear...all things created on the Ether my man/womankind, yes, even Santa and the Easter Bunny will be there. This is why an open, and educated mind is necessary, and a trained mind will see you through. Watch horror films, to prepare you. Nothing will hurt you, you will be in a spirit form, but you can hurt yourself by "falling" back into the 3rd dimension. Those of us who know these things do not look down on others, we know there is a natural cycle that Earth, and all of it's inhabitants go through all the time. There is a Beginning Time, a Middle Time, and an End Time, for us, for Earth, for each and everything on Earth. You need to start looking at Earth, Terra, as a living being, not a rock to be polluted and destroyed. She loves us, Her children, and we go about paying little attention to Her, as we drive along and throw cans and trash out the car window, and pile mountains of trash that could in fact be made of biodegradable materials, and we don't need chemical drugs in our polluted drinking water either. We are ruled by smart people, no doubt of that. Are we not smart enough to know what we want, and get it, one way or another?

reply to post by autowrench


Very insightful post.

Mother earth wont tolerate us continuing to do what we are doing much longer I think.

reply to post by rajaten


You've spammed this claim in multiple threads.

Do you have any evidence for this claim? Where did you get this information?

Which ice cores?
What study?
What was found?

I believe this is a continued effort on your part to further the hoax of 2012. Care to show me wrong?

reply to post by stereologist


I know that I've done searches on multiple science journal databases and haven't turned up anything that confirms a 3,600 years cycle contained in ice cores. In fact even a search on Google turned up nothing but 2012 sites and of course none of the sourced the article that stated this.

I did a few searches, probably not as many as you did, and I saw nothing.

It's sad that so many people fall for these claims without checking up on the claims. It's often fairly reasonable to check to see if a statement is reasonable.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I think in part what the problem is, is....so much is left to Human interpretation. And once "humans' get involved, because of ego or greed, the ancient information gets tainted!

We're all not privy to see the Sumerian tablets or the Egyptian or Mayan texts like some have been. And even if we were, most aren't versed enough to decipher them. So we leave it to other 'humans' to do it for us and that's where things get tricky.

We live in a world where no one trusts anyone anymore and that's very very very sad. And especially now that we're living in cyber space, lies untruths, rumors and agendas get spread around in a nano second.

We have to find our own truth. Our own beliefs. Our own destiny for no one will do it for us and maybe THAT'S what 2012 is really all about. A realization that: it will take solitude to realize we're all one!

reply to post by stereologist


I know the study being mentioned - I've referenced it before, myself, in another thread.

I'll look for it, but from what I recall the person who originally refereced it to me had some quantitative data that I was unable to verify from the source. They got a legitimate source, real scientists, and it was in fact an ice core study, but what I could not find was the isotope info that supposedly peaked around every 3,600 years.

[hang tight]

[edit on 9/5/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Okay, so I found an old email, that I also think I posted here in some format at some point, but I can't find it. It has 4 bulleted points, one of which is the ice core study...

__________________________________

First off, here's a quick question: Why is there NO mention of the Kolbrin Bible on Wikipedia? As far as I can tell the civs/religions that contributed to the txt are all legit? Even if they weren't, I see no reason why something as popularly speculated (and hotly contested) as this would not find it's way into the world's largest repository for knowledge in the world(?!)

Anyway, some other points that lend a little credit (we may have discussed some of these, before)...

1) Supression of information is a factor to be considered for sure - it is rumored that in one way or another, The Vatican, NSA or other secretive governing body is heavily involved in both the ownership and/or filtering of data from the majority of the major telescopes, regardless as to whether publicly or privately owned - and it's not just limited to Nibiru. There are other 'projects' that complain regularly that "the data IS there, but not being released" (moon base advocates, for example) - the biggest argument from most detractors is "WHERE IS IT?" - we should definitely see it by now [even though it IS a brown dwarf and most amateur scopes will probably not see it] - can't say I don't partially agree with this sentiment, tho.

Side note re: the Vatican, you may find it interesting that - directly from Vatican Film Library informational pamphlet: From July 2007, the library has been temporarily closed to the public for rebuilding, which is expected to be completed by September 2010.

So, it's been closed for 3 years and still isn't open - how incredibly convenient, for the world's largest and most complete archives of human history be off limits at such a critical time...


Although...

2) Last year, right about the time when (the numbers say) people shouldve been complaining that 'if Nibiru were coming, we would see it by now' there was a massive disinformation campaign launched against supporters who were supposedly providing solid evidence that it was in fact on the way. (YouTube (Nibirushock2012) I'm still not sure I buy this whole theory anyway - only suspiscious thing I've ever read about this, [other than THIS bullet] is #3, below, but you have to ask the question: why would someone go to the trouble of disproving a theory considered too wild all by itself, to begin with?! And, the people who launched this campagin had a LOT of access, and a LOT of know-how - and likely had a team of hackers working in total concert as they took over accounts and shutdown others (?) - why all the effort?!

[Edit today 9/5: You can find a bunch of threads here on ATS (I just found, while looking for this post) about the NibiruShock videos, possible hoax, and even 'coming clean' right here on ATS - it is pretty clear that no one believes the person using the same name to be the same person.]

3) The 1983 Washington Post article that was published and then immediately retracted (rumored under force/threat) - I WAS able to find that link: planet-x.150m.com...

For your convenience, I have posted an excerpt, below - I'm sure most have seen this before. Remember this was countered, vehemently and immediately...
_________________

By Thomas O'Toole, Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 1983 ; Page A1

A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite.

So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars ever gets through.

"All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of Technology, said in an interview.

_________________

[Edit today 9/5: Here it is - UNVERIFIABLE - I ripped this info from another user I was blogging with - I requested the published paper from the source after I tracked them down - they never replied. But you can Google the people, insistute, and paper, yourself]

4) Michel R. Legrand and Robert J. Delmas of Laboratoire de Glaciologie et Geophysique de l'Environment published an article "Soluble Impurities in Four Antarctic Ice Cores Over the Last 30,000 Years" in Annals of Glaciology (10, 1988, pp 116-120). They graphed the Oxygen 18 variations and the ionic components Na = NH (sub4) and Ca (sup 2) and H and Cl and NO (sub 3) and SO (sub 4). The time scale for each ionic component level as well as the O (sup 18) levels stretches back 30,000 years. The graph shows correlations to spikes at 5,200 BC, 8,800 BC, 12,400 BC, c. 16,000 BC, c. 19,600 BC. All of these were times of great geologic stress.

Not sure what happened 1,600BC(?)* But you can extrapolate to there and ~2012, obviously.





[edit on 9/5/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

Re: the Washington Post article. I don't remember seeing anything about it being "countered, vehemently and immediately".

Yes, the IRAS scientists were not sure what they were seeing, at first. That's because they were using an instrument that had never been used before. They were seeing things which had never been seen before. It didn't take them long to figure out that what they were seeing was, in fact, galaxies (a possibility mentioned in the Washington Post article).
adsabs.harvard.edu...
adsabs.harvard.edu...



The referenced ice core article is here:
www.igsoc.org...

Yes, it is interesting that the chart does not show any spike at 1600 BC.

The chart mentioned does not demonstrate any "cycle". It does not demonstrate any "great geologic stress". What it does demonstrate is that:

the large sulfate and nitrate concentrations observed in LGM ice are mostly linked to the high continental aerosol inputs. The marine excess sulfate was slightly higher during the LGM than during the Holocene. This could indicate enhanced marine biogenic activity in ice-age climatic conditions in comparison with its present-day level

During the last ice age it was drier than it is now. There were more desert areas. There was more dust in the atmosphere.

I've read that article on the ice cores. It did not claim to show a 3600 year cycle. Thanks for bringing that to light. I figured there had to be a source to this claim that dd not match up just like the claims of suppressing the IRAS data.

Yeah, to be clear, I don't necessarily subscribe to these theories anymore (regarding Nibiru), but when I first learned of it, these were the most compelling arguments to me - keep in mind, this is a sleeper thread that got woken up a few posts ago, and also that the post I made above was merely a copy from a thread, long ago.

Having said that...

I still think this notion of a companion Star is not such a far fetched idea. After all, most scientists have come way around on their line of thinking that MOST stars are part of a binary or multi star system.

Why should the Sun be any different? Maybe they just have the timing wrong? (regarding orbital period)

But, it would explain a few things. A large object flying by our solar system, would definitely have an impact (not a collision, necessarily, although, explain the asteroid belt!) much like described in the bible, and texts of other religions: massive tidal changes causing flooding, contaminating water supplies, bringing disease, and tectonic plate activity causing tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcano eruptions. Sound a little familiar?

Now, again, having said all THAT...

I think rather than a 'total destruction' 2012 theory, I think I've come around to a new type of 'apocalypse': The accelerated self-awareness model (which may very well result in some type of self-destruction, but not necessarily a complete annihilation from foreign body [from another post/thread]...

[And, to expound upon Phage's point of scientists "not sure what they were seeing, at first"]
___________

The acceleration of [everything] seems to be culminating at right about this time.

- Economic woes seem to be more out of control than ever with the spiraling of the dollar, the realization that America's debt will NEVER be paid off and pretty soon creditors (China) are going to start expecting products instead of worthless paper, and the collapsing of Nations (Greece, Iceland, Spain...)

- Political problems seem to be mounting, and it stems much further than the WWE-esque douche, er... two-party system that we have here in the U.S. We're talking crazy North Korea, we're talking biblical prophecy unfolding with the likely attack of Isreal by Iran.

We could go thru category after category, but I would prefer to think of the grandest of them all - the realization of what it all means and where we all came from - bare with me...

So, For many thousands of years, humanity, with a few notable exceptions, did not recognize the existence of the Solar System. People believed the Earth to be stationary at the center of the universe.

It wasn't until a mere 400 years ago, that someone first openly suggested that the sun, and not the earth, was the center of our system.

We don't even discover Pluto until the 1930s, for crying out loud.

The Hubble telescope goes up in the 90s (only TWENTY Years ago), and we see further away and back in time and more objects than we ever had before. We start to get a clearer picture about the origins of it all. Not just planets and our solar system but ALL of it. Right down to the last nano-second - this is where physics breaks down for the Big Bang Theory (or Collision Theory if you've been keeping up).

NOW, in the last TWO YEARS, up goes Kepler and comes the Vatican shake up:

1) Kepler Telescope is finding 'Earthlike' planets all over the place, even though the sample size is equatable to an 8oz. glass of water in the oceans of our earth.

2) the Vatican makes the startling proclamation - for the first time in its 2,000 year history, the catholic church acknowledged the possibility that intelligent life could exist on other planets, and that a belief in extraterrestrials does not necessarily contradict a belief in God - and have since jumped in the search with telescope purchases of their own (Excuse me? Nice 180'!)

[I realize quite bit happened in between each of those gaps, but you get the idea - these were pretty significant milestones]


Bottom line: I'm telling you, if you could graph our knowledge about the universe and ourselves over time, you would get an exponential curve accelerating into the sky whose asymptote is right about now! (2012)

Are we coming to the realization that a destruction or transfomation IS coming? Who knows. But, things are pretty hairy right now. More than they've ever been, imho.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I think a telling piece of evidence that the sun does not have a companion is that the WISE finished its first scan of the heavens back in July, some 6 weeks ago. The fact, that nothing was picked up certainly suggests that a large infrared object such as a brown dwarf is not close to the sun. I'm sure that something close by would have been spotted if it were emitting large amounts of infrared.

But lots of other goodies are being uncovered by the satellite.
WISE

reply to post by stereologist


If they did find something, do you think they would say so!

second line in the sky.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Duuuuddddeeee, I have been mad on this topic since 1993-1994 when my farther first brought the mayan calender to my attention (we always talked about ufo's and other odd # like that) He was the first person to emntion to me about this long count calander and for a few years I pretty much forgot about it (was a teenager then eh) but it was always in the back of my mind, then in 2008 (i think) i was at an airport waiting for my plane and grabbed

Apocalypse 2012: An optimist investigates the end of civilization [Paperback]
Lawrence E. Joseph (Author)

And that book I have read about 20-30 times, it is so well written, anyway that reaaly sparked my interst back in the subject and if you haven't read it, get it!

Since then I have been warning my friends, although I am not a convicted 2012's the end person, I am quite aware of how possible it is, and besides the whole mayan calander thing there are allot more # scary things out there as the book disclosed and any serious research into asteriods and meteriods will show, what can I say I am also into the holographic universe thing and one very interesting part of the mayan story is that one of the translations from their gods says that "in 2012 the holographic vail will be lifted from our eyes", I mean it is a english translation and I don't know the original mayan text but as a close as ca be translation what the # did the mayans know of hologrammes? Oh and if you haven't yet looked intot he hologrpahic nature of our universe there are plenty of great threads on ATS covering the subject!

look out look up and uh look busy!

Serioulsy though if you have anything to do, do it soon just in case!

reply to post by jsettica


Yes. There are millions of photos to date from WISE. They will be available all over the world to researchers. As with all scientific work the people running the project get the first chance to review the data before its general release. Some interesting items have already been released.

Planned Data Products and Release Schedule
WISE will make a preliminary release of data taken during the first half of the survey six months after the end of on-orbit data acqusition. For the current lifetime estimate of 10 months, and launch date of Dec 7, the first data release would be in April 2011. The final data release will be 11 months later in March 2012 according to current estimates.
The data products will include:

* A 4 color Atlas of 4096x4096 pix coadded images with 1.375 arc-second pixels.
* A Catalog of celstial sources detected on the coadded images.
* The individual image frames used to construct the Atlas Images.
* A database of sources extracted from the indiividual frames.
* A table of WISE observations of known solar system objects
* An explanatory supplement

For Astronomers - WISE

reply to post by smutness


Did the mayans actually talk about this holographic stuff>?

reply to post by stereologist


good old video for you on Wise and a darkstar called Nemesis.

reply to post by Phage


The last thing that happened 1600 BC was the Exodus and Moses.

reply to post by dragnet53


Since Exodus never happened it is kind of hard to date. I have stated the long list of reasons why there was no Exodus and you have never challenged anything on the list. Thus it is clear that this is a bogus claim of yours.