'Lost:' Season Six Discussion...

Originally posted by Gazrok
It's got to be more than that though...or why bother showing them?

There has to be an identifiable connection between the two of them that takes place instantaneously...and so far, it seems to be a similar change in character that occurs in both (i.e. Ben redeeming himself, Sawyer trusting another, etc. )

Oh yes!
I also think there is a connection.

I mean, the hydrogen bomb worked. Like Juliete said- They are all alive outside the island. However their life didn't get back to be the same it was before the crashing into it.

A lot of things changed, and this time the characters are all much more "visibly" -intimately connected. Their bonds.

I think, the ones on the island- there's a "part" of them still there to finish their mission.

So at some point both lives will merge. Something will happen that will unite both universes.

Alls that matters is that Ben wins.

reply to post by Mr Mask


Mr Mask, ..... that song seriously sucks!

lol

But don't get me wrong, I like Benjamin Linus-

He used to be my favourite when he was consistently "evil".
- (before season 5).

Now he's just okay.


[edit on 20/3/10 by plutoxgirl]

Two days 'til one of the biggest episodes of Lost of all-time!

Woo Hoo! Can't wait for this one...

I can't remember what Jack's parallel was either, though I tried to... It seemed to be about reconciling his relationship with his father to a certain degree, but on the island, he was more focused on the whole lighthouse issue, whereas on the mainland, it was his son... Just not seeing the obvious connection there, like there was with the other characters...

Kate's parallel seemed to be that she is still a fugitive in both timelines (on the run with Sawyer and MIB on the island, and still running from the law, but into Sawyer, on the mainland).

Originally posted by chissler
That's not what I think. And I think I've actually said that several times myself in this thread that it is not just a storyline just to appease fans.

Okay, my mistake.

It is not a separate universe, it is just the same story line minus the crash. (IMO)

Minus the crash and a whole lot of other things.

But considering this timeline's only difference in the current one on the island is that the plane did not crash, there are some gaps in the plot as I see it.

Lots of things are different (like the things you mention after your quote above).

Originally posted by Gazrok
There are quite a few changes, independent of the plan crash, that point to the time alteration being way before the flight took place. In addition, we can use Ben's age at the time of the flash sideways, to assume that this shift occurred in the 70's, probably at the time the bomb went off...(when the Dharma folks were evacuating the island...hence Ben and his dad leaving?)

I like this!

Originally posted by Gazrok
There has to be an identifiable connection between the two of them that takes place instantaneously...and so far, it seems to be a similar change in character that occurs in both (i.e. Ben redeeming himself, Sawyer trusting another, etc. )

Also, Juliet thought that the plan worked because she had a vision of the other timeline (that's what I think). And Jack, in the new timeline, had a fresh wound on his neck and seems to have a new scar from when his appendix was taken out in the original timeline.

Originally posted by chissler
Two days 'til one of the biggest episodes of Lost of all-time!

The episode is set to be 1 hour, 6 minutes long (link)!

About Episode 15, the site I use for episode titles and centrics has changed the centric from Jacob/"Esau" to Jacob/MIB. It's the same thing, but I guess they didn't want to confuse people.

On the series finale, which is three parts (episodes 16, 17, and 18), the site does not list the centric for the episode in the title of the thread which deals with that episode. I assumed it was because the title was a spoiler in itself, but I was curious, and I checked to see what the title was. It could be a huge spoiler if it is true, so beware of what I am about to post. The title for the series finale of 'Lost' is (spoilerish) "What They Died For." The episode could be multi-centric.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by they see ALL]

I still think the Jacob/Esau bit was either an accidental or purposeful slip...

Can't wait for tonight's episode though...

Originally posted by Gazrok
I still think the Jacob/Esau bit was either an accidental or purposeful slip...

Possibly. I am thinking that Jacob and the MIB represent good and evil, respectfully, but, at the same time, I am also sure that they both have bits of both in them, so it will not be as simple as this.

Can't wait for tonight's episode though...

Definitely!

Possibly. I am thinking that Jacob and the MIB represent good and evil, respectfully, but, at the same time, I am also sure that they both have bits of both in them, so it will not be as simple as this.

It's not simple in theology either... Many Christian scholars still debate who was in the wrong here, Jacob or Esau... Some felt Jacob should have fed his brother Esau without requiring the renouncing of his birthright...others feel Esau wasn't really starving and simply didn't think far ahead when making the deal (all going from the biblical stories here...not Lost)...

I'm going to be on the move later tonight so I'm currently watching the early showing of it. I'll post my thoughts on it at the end but won't spoil anything. Looking forward to discussing this with everyone tomorrow.

Very good episode. Slow moving at the beginning, wish it had of jumped into it a little quicker. But a lot of questions were answered and even a few more raised. A lot of things I want to say but I couldn't do it to anyone who might read it before seeing the episode!

I will say this though and please stop reading right now if you haven't seen the episode yet, even though this isn't a spoiler, I was somewhat underwhelmed with the episode. I just feel it could have been so much more.

I'm still on Walt, I found an interview from 2007 where Damon Lindelof is talking about him: "We've always known Malcolm was going to grow faster than we could shoot the show. And we planned for it. Trust us. Please trust us. You'll see [Walt] again. But you're gonna have to be patient. Sorry."

I have a couple of questions..

Where did Sawyer come up with the name "LaFleur"? It seems to mean something to him since he uses it several times.

Whatever happened to the whispers?

Why does the Man in Black bother using the form of Locke when everyone seems to already be aware that he is not Locke?

Originally posted by chissler
I'm going to be on the move later tonight so I'm currently watching the early showing of it.

Wait a second, you can watch it early up there in Canada!? How cool!

Originally posted by chissler
Slow moving at the beginning, wish it had of jumped into it a little quicker.

Yes, very slow moving. Richard was trapped in the Black Rock for half the episode!

I just feel it could have been so much more.

Yup. We saw Richard's history from the framework of the Jacob and MIB plot. Sure we saw his origins, but we didn't get a glimpse into his whole history (unless we are to assume Richard was just Jacob's lapdog after the events we saw).

Also, how weak was it that the Black Rock ended up on the Island from a mere tidal wave (and also that the Statue was destroyed by the same wave)? Fans have always speculated how the heck could the ship get seemingly so far inland, but now it's just due to a wave. The destruction of the Statue was also another great mystery. Oh well.

I am thinking that the Jacob and MIB plot is the main story of 'Lost'. I mean, of course it is since this is the focus of the last season. Thus, wouldn't this negate the previous stories (seasons)? These stories fail in comparison to this one based on the sheer implications of it (the great, final battle). What do you all think?

Originally posted by MrAndy
I'm still on Walt, I found an interview from 2007 where Damon Lindelof is talking about him: "We've always known Malcolm was going to grow faster than we could shoot the show. And we planned for it. Trust us. Please trust us. You'll see [Walt] again. But you're gonna have to be patient. Sorry."

Since that's from way back in '07, I guess we can assume that they were thinking about returning Walt when he appeared a few times after he left the Island (most notably in that short scene with Locke last season). I am sure Walt is done with, sorry.

Where did Sawyer come up with the name "LaFleur"? It seems to mean something to him since he uses it several times.

Good question. Don't know.

Whatever happened to the whispers?

We heard them in the Temple this season, remember? If you are talking about after this, I don't know when we heard them last. Maybe that was the last time so far.

Why does the Man in Black bother using the form of Locke when everyone seems to already be aware that he is not Locke?

Ilana said that he is stuck in Locke's form.

I'm curious why there are no comments about Richard's claim that they are all dead, and in hell. Obviously, he didn't believe this after meeting Jacob, but seemed to revert to the theory with Jacob's death...

Personally, I can't agree with the idea of it being hell, especially after Jacob's explanation of what the island really is (basically the locked door of the world, keeping more evil at bay)... This would fit with the underworld guardian themes we've seen on the island throughout the show.

At first, his unhinging after the news of Jacob's death never really made much sense to me, but with last night's episode, it fits better.

While speculated, it's clear now that MIB is a prisoner, and Jacob, his jailer. Wasn't sure if BOTH were trapped before, although Jacob's trips off the island supported him not being so trapped.

Not exactly sure why Jacob brought the ship to the island, as he (and MIB) only spared Richard it seems, and nobody else on the ship...

I'm a bit underwhelmed at the ship destroying the statue too, but ehh....

When Jacob meats with MIB at the end of the episode, this was in the past shortly after Richard made his decision, correct? For a moment I thought that maybe Jacob was still alive, although the white rock says otherwise. I'm 99% confident this is correct, just confirming. Obviously it being the old body and not Locke also supports this.

Also, what does that liquid represent that Jacob gave to MIB? He said it was something to "pass the time"?

I was hoping to see Richard flashing through time. It went from 1867 to present day. Almost 150 years Richard lived on that island and it didn't show us a second of it. If there was ever a Lost fail, that one would be it. The more I think of it, the more I am disappointed. It was just as much a Jacob/MIB centric episode as it was Richard. The only difference was that it showed Richard's love interest.

Has it ever been explained how Hurley is speaking to the dead? I remember when he left the island and began to see Charlie and a few others while institutionalized, but has it ever been explained? He is the one who speaks to Jacob now and he is the one who communicated with Isabella. Why him? Might it be building towards a Hurley centric episode where something big will be told?

So is next week Desmond and the following week Jacob/MIB?

When Jacob meats with MIB at the end of the episode, this was in the past shortly after Richard made his decision, correct? For a moment I thought that maybe Jacob was still alive, although the white rock says otherwise. I'm 99% confident this is correct, just confirming. Obviously it being the old body and not Locke also supports this.

I concur....that was my take on it....

Also, what does that liquid represent that Jacob gave to MIB? He said it was something to "pass the time"?

I think it was just wine, with Jacob using it as a metaphor for Richard

I was hoping to see Richard flashing through time. It went from 1867 to present day. Almost 150 years Richard lived on that island and it didn't show us a second of it. If there was ever a Lost fail, that one would be it. The more I think of it, the more I am disappointed. It was just as much a Jacob/MIB centric episode as it was Richard. The only difference was that it showed Richard's love interest.

Yeah, I was hoping to see more of his past on the island (and some explanation on how he leaves the island, unless it was by the Others' sub). We saw him in the 50's and the 70's, in addition to the Losties' time, during the time travel episodes...but there is a BIG gap there (and little about who the Others' are, and where they came from). Obviously brought by Jacob, but when and how?

Loved the "nice to see you out of those chains" comment again though...

Has it ever been explained how Hurley is speaking to the dead? I remember when he left the island and began to see Charlie and a few others while institutionalized, but has it ever been explained? He is the one who speaks to Jacob now and he is the one who communicated with Isabella. Why him? Might it be building towards a Hurley centric episode where something big will be told?

I think this started on the island, when he would talk to his friend Dave that was in the nuthouse with him, before he left the island and came back. So it may be like Miles' ability, somewhat....

So is next week Desmond and the following week Jacob/MIB?

Not sure, my money is still on desmond being behind that locked door in the sub...


Some other revelations though...

seems the cave was MIB's, not Jacob's (the presence of the white rock, and the absence of ash)....

Jacob's successor has the power to keep MIB contained (which would seemingly force MIB to find another loophole, buying a LOT of time)...

Seemed to confirm the Sun, not Jin, is the candidate from the pair of them.

We learned what destroyed the statue (cheesy as it was)...

We learned why Richard doesn't age (deal with Jacob). We always suspected Jacob was the reason, but not why only Richard has this benefit, now we know.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Gazrok]

reply to post by Gazrok


Maybe with the Jacob/MIB centric episode, some of those moments will be shown. I doubt it though. In the Jacob/MIB centric episode, I believe there is very little on-screen presence of the usual characters. So like the Richard episode, most of it will likely be set in the past. Which I agree with for those two, but I think they missed the mark on Richard. I say that prematurely without seeing future episodes and maybe I'll feel different once the full picture is known.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm curious why there are no comments about Richard's claim that they are all dead, and in hell.

I don't like this (old) theory. This was a theory fans were talking about way back when (maybe even since the show started). We know why Richard thought he was dead in the past, and we can assume why he again thought this (since Jacob, the man he worked for for a very long time, was killed). Working for Jacob gave him purpose, but now he thinks he doesn't have any. Thus, he started to think negatively again. Now, though, Hurley and Isabella reminded him of what he must do.

Not exactly sure why Jacob brought the ship to the island, as he (and MIB) only spared Richard it seems, and nobody else on the ship...

Well, you could say that Jacob brought 815 to the Island, right? Not all the passengers on the flight were important, just the Candidates. About Richard, it appears that, yes, only he was important to Jacob and MIB. MIB came at the exact time when Richard was about to be killed. I think that MIB knew what was going on, and he saved Richard for his own ends.

It appears that Jacob and MIB are simply playing a game. MIB wants to corrupt people, and Jacob tries to do the opposite. Jacob seems like the one in more control, and he seems like a sore looser. If you recall the first conversation between the two that we saw, MIB says that their game always ends the same - the players always get corrupted. Thus, MIB is winning the game. Jacob, though, cannot admit to this, and just says that the game only ends once. By this, I sense that Jacob believes that the game can only end when he wins.

Originally posted by chissler
When Jacob meats with MIB at the end of the episode, this was in the past shortly after Richard made his decision, correct?

Correct. In fact, this is only the second episode to end in a flashback (the other one being "Dave"). This is what Lostpedia says on their page for the most recent episode. Also, this is the first flashback episode of the season!

Also, what does that liquid represent that Jacob gave to MIB? He said it was something to "pass the time"?

Presumably, it's just wine. It represent the evil (MIB) that is trapped on the island. Maybe Jacob was just being a jerk when he said that MIB can pass the time with it. By saying this, I think he meant that MIB can simply hang around for eternity and drink it.

I was hoping to see Richard flashing through time. It went from 1867 to present day. Almost 150 years Richard lived on that island and it didn't show us a second of it.

I guess we just have to assume that Richard had a boring history of working for Jacob after the events of last night's episode.

Has it ever been explained how Hurley is speaking to the dead?

I don't think so, but maybe it's due to him being a Candidate. I love Hurley now since he has importance! In the past, he was just a comical figure. Sure he was the first one of our Losties who knew about the numbers, but he was always just comical to me. Now, however, he's a Candidate, and he is playing a major role.

So is next week Desmond and the following week Jacob/MIB?

Nope. Always look around this thread if you are confused. The rest of the episodes for this series are known. The next episode is Jin/Sun, and then Desmond is up.

Originally posted by Gazrok
We saw him in the 50's and the 70's, in addition to the Losties' time, during the time travel episodes...but there is a BIG gap there (and little about who the Others' are, and where they came from). Obviously brought by Jacob, but when and how?

The Others are just the leftovers of various journeys to the Island (whether intentional or not). That's what I can make of it. Lots of minor answers will probably not be given, so we might have to wonder about such things as the Others.

seems the cave was MIB's, not Jacob's (the presence of the white rock, and the absence of ash)....

Makes sense. Jacob, since he appears to be stronger than MIB, has the lavish housings, such as the Statue and the Lighthouse (well, I guess he didn't live at the Lighthouse), while MIB has been demoted to a mere cave. MIB would also be interested in the Candidates, so it makes sense that he was keeping track of this.

We learned why Richard doesn't age (deal with Jacob). We always suspected Jacob was the reason, but not why only Richard has this benefit, now we know.

I thought it was dumb that Richard couldn't kill himself, but others could. Richard said he never wanted to die, so how does this help him? Unless Jacob just took it to mean natural death.

Now that we have seen Richard's backstory, where the heck did the name Ricardus come from? This name is why I thought Richard predated the Black Rock, but now we know otherwise. Seems like this name was a red herring. Also, was MIB playing the role of Isabella? I was confused about this, but it makes sense if it was MIB.

Here is the trailer for the next episode, and here is the Canadian version of it. The latter seems to show a bit more (including a great line from MIB).

What we have yet to ask is where does Jacob & MIB come from? What gave them the power that they have? Just how long have they been on the island? What higher power provided the powers that they currently possess?

This week's episode has set up their centric episode big time.

I think they'll leave the "higher power" question open.... We're gonna be left assuming that these two are connected with whatever higher power the viewer fancies...

Now that we have seen Richard's backstory, where the heck did the name Ricardus come from? This name is why I thought Richard predated the Black Rock, but now we know otherwise. Seems like this name was a red herring. Also, was MIB playing the role of Isabella? I was confused about this, but it makes sense if it was MIB.

Yep, I was wondering that too...seems it was only used between Jacob and Illana...though Richard knew who she meant. When asked what was in the statue though, Richard replied in Latin...so somewhere in his past, he learned this (assuming this while he was off and on at the island) it seems.