'Lost:' Season Six Discussion...

Originally posted by they see ALL


I almost forgot one of the biggest mysteries: Jack's son! Are we to believe that Jack always had a son (even though he tells Hurley that he would have made a terrible father and we have never seen or heard of any proof of a son)? Or is this proof that this other timeline is a completely different universe where not only the events after the crash are different from the original, but also events way before the crash? I think the latter is the case. Now that I think about it, the latter may have been always the case since Desmond was on the plane and etc.

Yes it seems so, and on the plane before th crash I think Jack was the one trying to calm down that lady, but this time it was the other way around.

And did locke really have a wife before?

Also did you see how kate looked at jack for a second when she spotted him outside her cab, like she had seen him before.

So yes something is strange about all of this.

Well, I'm more convinced than ever, that Sun (not Jin) is the candidate, due to her being able to see the visions (i.e. Christian).

At least we now know that those who are "coming" are not currently on the island, and that Jack seems to be the lead "candidate".

We also now have confirmation that "infected" seems to mean they are on MIB's team (with Sayid being an unknown sleeper agent, perhaps), and Jin is now, unwittingly, giving them a straight shot into the temple.

Still so many questions. I almost have the feeling it will end with Locke (MIB) and Jack (Jacob) sitting on the beach, with Locke telling Jack he's going to find a loophole again, that will allow him to kill him again....while a plane flies overhead, reflected in Jack's eye...

I'm also back to thinking that Jacob is much like the biblical Jacob, and MIB is much like Esau (Jacob's twin brother). In the Bible, Esau sold his birthright (as eldest son) to Jacob, and there is still debate about which one was immoral in this act. In addition, in the non-canon Book of Jubilees, Esau desperately wants to kill Jacob, but is "forbidden" to do so, creating an interesting parallel with Lost's storyline here....(and this could be why MIB has not yet had a name associated with him). The story of Esau's followers is also in the book "Numbers"

And, there's this:
"And the house of Jacob shall be fire and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau shall become stubble, and they shall ignite them and consume them, and the house of Esau shall have no survivors, for the Lord has spoken."

Personal Theories:

1. The people "coming" are Desmond, Widmore, and/or Faraday (yes, I know Faraday died in the 70's, but possibly not, in the new, altered sideways timeline)... Hawkings told Desmond he wasn't done yet, and that actor's name has been in the credits a lot lately...All of these people have a drive to find the island...

2. Faraday (that died in the 70's) and his gal pal, are the skeletons in the cave.

3. The sideways timeline allows for previously dead cast members to be alive (i.e., just as Locke is alive there).

4. Shannon will be playing a role in the sideways timeline.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Yes it seems so, and on the plane before th crash I think Jack was the one trying to calm down that lady, but this time it was the other way around.

True.

And did locke really have a wife before?

No. He proposed to her, but she declined.

Also did you see how kate looked at jack for a second when she spotted him outside her cab, like she had seen him before.

It's been a while since I've seen that episode, so, no, I don't remember that.

Originally posted by Gazrok
At least we now know that those who are "coming" are not currently on the island, and that Jack seems to be the lead "candidate".

Wait, are you referring to the most resent episode? If so, Jacob was talking about Jack when he said that someone was coming to the Island and that Hurley is needed to help this someone. If you are referring to when Jacob said that a mysterious "they" are coming, then I cannot yet add anything new to what I have already speculated about them.

We also now have confirmation that "infected" seems to mean they are on MIB's team (with Sayid being an unknown sleeper agent, perhaps), and Jin is now, unwittingly, giving them a straight shot into the temple.

That's what I am thinking. But I am almost sure that the MIB could get inside the Temple without Jin's help.

Still so many questions. I almost have the feeling it will end with Locke (MIB) and Jack (Jacob) sitting on the beach, with Locke telling Jack he's going to find a loophole again, that will allow him to kill him again....while a plane flies overhead, reflected in Jack's eye...

Insane!

I'm also back to thinking that Jacob is much like the biblical Jacob, and MIB is much like Esau (Jacob's twin brother). In the Bible, Esau sold his birthright (as eldest son) to Jacob, and there is still debate about which one was immoral in this act. In addition, in the non-canon Book of Jubilees, Esau desperately wants to kill Jacob, but is "forbidden" to do so, creating an interesting parallel with Lost's storyline here....(and this could be why MIB has not yet had a name associated with him). The story of Esau's followers is also in the book "Numbers"

Very nice info! Thanks! I am also not so quick to say who - out of either Jacob or the MIB - is good and who is evil. To me, they both have bad qualities about them.

1. The people "coming" are Desmond, Widmore, and/or Faraday (yes, I know Faraday died in the 70's, but possibly not, in the new, altered sideways timeline)... Hawkings told Desmond he wasn't done yet, and that actor's name has been in the credits a lot lately...All of these people have a drive to find the island...

Well, Desmond's story is not yet done (episode 11 is Desmond-centric).

4. Shannon will be playing a role in the sideways timeline.

(Spoiler discussion.) Do you think this just because of the casting spoiler? Today, my friend told me about this (I really don't like to know this sort of thing) and so I checked chissler's link about this to see if it talks of the same character.

Also, what are we to make of Jack's wounds in the new timeline/universe? First he had that scratch on his neck and now he has that scar from a past surgery (or at least that's what he thinks it's from). There must be importance for such things. Jack even asked his mom about the scar, and when she tells him he had surgery as a boy in the past, Jack still does not vividly recall the surgery. Take a look at the Lostpedia page for "Lighthouse." In it, there's this nice trivia tidbit:

Jack's appendectomy scar in the flash-sideways timeline parallels the scar he received from the same surgery Juliet performed on him on the Island.

Maybe things in one timeline/universe affects things in the other (Juliette's apparent remembrance of things from the other timeline and now Jack's wound in the other timeline).

Here is the trailer for "Sundown" (Sayid-centric). What a weird preview, huh!? They could show us a few seconds of things!

Shannon: Yes, because of the casting spoiler...but I heard it from another, so couldn't censor NOT hearing it. Only makes sense that she'll be in the sideways timeline.

I usually make it a point not to watch the trailers...if I can help it...not always successful at this though...

I think you're right about the different universes having some degree of effect on one another...just how much remains to be seen, but there must be some effect, or why show it at all?

I also want to add that it appears that Christian is/has always been, one of MIB's people (or more likely, MIB in that form, so now that he's "locked" into Locke, pardon the pun, we won't see Christian anymore).... He is the one that told John to "move the island" and jump start the whole "loophole", plus, he is obviously the one who "infected" Claire...or at least that's my idea on it....

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Gazrok]

I had read earlier in the season that these "flash sideways" are more than just a 'what if' scenario that the viewers are being treated too. And with some of the little hints and questions thrown at us in these flash sideways, it creates a bit of foreshadowing of what might be coming in the future. I'm completely baffled in how they'll connect the two, although it was only last season we were running timelines in different decades and doing so very well. So I have nothing but faith in the writers.

Yeah, after 5 seasons, they've earned our faith so far...

And I suppose it's doing the job...as I can't wait until another episode!

This season is going alright so far. It's answering a few questions but, as always, asking many more.

I think whoever is Jack's son's mother is will be very interesting. I have a feeling it could be Juliet. There is a reason why we are not seeing who it is.

We have seen two 'lists'. I think one might be Jacob's and the other is MIB's. There is no reason for either entity to have TWO lists.

I am not sure who the creepy kid was referring to. My first reaction was Jacob, HOWEVER, i am sure that if Jacob could not be killed it would've come up in the Ben stabbing scene. I am wondering whether it is referring to Sawyer because he is a candidate? Or it was simply meaning that Jacob cannot really ever be dead.

So many questions :bnghd::bnghd:

Here is something that just came to me. Is it only angry, smokey MIB who cannot go past the ash 'barrier' OR does it also stop him when calm. Reason for the question is that i wonder then, WHO was in the hut in the famous making Jacob angry scene? From what we have seen, Jacob doesn't really get angry. He is a calm collected soul lol.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Shannon: Yes, because of the casting spoiler...but I heard it from another, so couldn't censor NOT hearing it. Only makes sense that she'll be in the sideways timeline.

I wonder, though, how will her not being on the plane play out. I heard that Maggie Grace was busy and so she was not going to be in either (or both) the premier or the season. I guess they can play out her not being on the flight since everything is changing from the timeline that we are all accustomed to.

I also want to add that it appears that Christian is/has always been, one of MIB's people (or more likely, MIB in that form, so now that he's "locked" into Locke, pardon the pun, we won't see Christian anymore).... He is the one that told John to "move the island" and jump start the whole "loophole", plus, he is obviously the one who "infected" Claire...or at least that's my idea on it....

Yes, but I always thought that we have seen (in the past season) Christian and the MIB in the same scenes together. The one scene that I can recall is in the episode "Dead is Dead" when Sun sees "Locke" waiting outside the cabin. Upon reading some of the episode's Lostpedia page, I see that Christian and the MIB were not in this scene together. It's possible, then, they were not in any scenes together, but I always thought that they were.

Forgetting this for a second, what about the appearance of Alex to Ben? She cannot be the MIB since he was stuck in the form of Locke when she appeared to Ben.

Originally posted by chissler
I'm completely baffled in how they'll connect the two, although it was only last season we were running timelines in different decades and doing so very well. So I have nothing but faith in the writers.

I agree that the two timelines are more than simply showing us two distinct sides of the story. Juliet might have had a vision of the other timeline (and she even thinks that Jack's/Daniel's plan worked) and Jack, in the new timeline, seems to be getting fresh wounds/scars from what occurs in the original timeline.

And, yes, I also have nothing but faith for the writers.

Originally posted by SilentShadow
This season is going alright so far. It's answering a few questions but, as always, asking many more.

It'll be impossible to answer every question, but I am sure that they will answer the major ones. We don't really know why the Others tested Walt (or what the tests involved), but I guess we have to assume that the Others were just interested in special people. Such small mysteries as these will have to be either forgotten by fans or will have to be answered by us, that is, we will have to connect the dots on such things. On the other hand, the big mysteries, hopefully, will be directly answered.

I think whoever is Jack's son's mother is will be very interesting. I have a feeling it could be Juliet. There is a reason why we are not seeing who it is.

Never thought it would be anyone but Sarah. Since they didn't show us who she is, then it could very well be someone else.

I am not sure who the creepy kid was referring to. My first reaction was Jacob, HOWEVER, i am sure that if Jacob could not be killed it would've come up in the Ben stabbing scene. I am wondering whether it is referring to Sawyer because he is a candidate? Or it was simply meaning that Jacob cannot really ever be dead.

If Jacob really isn't dead, it will be a bit of a cop out since it was very shocking that he died in the first place. By the way, didn't Jacob already admit to Hurley that he was dead? I know Jacob isn't the most reliable guy, but still. Ilana, though, took some of Jacob's ashes, so this must mean something. The kid talking to Sawyer might make sense since Sawyer is a Candidate.

Here is something that just came to me. Is it only angry, smokey MIB who cannot go past the ash 'barrier' OR does it also stop him when calm. Reason for the question is that i wonder then, WHO was in the hut in the famous making Jacob angry scene? From what we have seen, Jacob doesn't really get angry. He is a calm collected soul lol.

Yes, was the ash barrier keeping something in or keeping something out? In a screen cap, we have seen what/who was in the chair in Jacob's cabin in the episode where Ben takes Locke to the cabin. The guy that was in the chair looked like a guy from antiquity times (it looked like he had a wig on or had fancy hair like that). Look around the Internet if you are interested. This begs the question of who was this guy?

Of the members who frequent this thread and offer their opinion, it brings a smile to my face to see fellow fans of this series offer up the rare benefit of the doubt. Too often of any concept, albeit a show, movie, sporting team, etc., "fans" are so quick to criticize and bash. But this thread remains a constant place of practical discussion and from week to week the benefit of the doubt is offered on the direction of the show. A benefit that is well deserved, I might add.

Now if they disappoint at season's end, I'll be some pissed!

Originally posted by chissler
Of the members who frequent this thread and offer their opinion, it brings a smile to my face to see fellow fans of this series offer up the rare benefit of the doubt.

That's why I love creating these 'Lost' threads! For the past four seasons (including this one), I created these 'Lost'-dedicated threads, so that we may enjoy conversing about out favorite show. BTS is a great place to discuss 'Lost' because we all know each other to an extent. Thus, it's better than a random 'Lost' discussion board where you might not know someone else.

Too often of any concept, albeit a show, movie, sporting team, etc., "fans" are so quick to criticize and bash.

Yeah, if they were fans, they wouldn't criticize, right? Well, I guess that's a die hard fanboy. I am fan and I have no problem posting any problems I have with the show (although I do feel guilty for doing so).

Now if they disappoint at season's end, I'll be some pissed!

Of course they will not!

EDIT:

New trailer for "Sundown:"

"Sundown" Promo #2

And the title for episode 15 is up:

Episode 6.15
Title: "Across The Sea."

[edit on 28-2-2010 by they see ALL]

I think that MIB only got trapped in his form after he killed Jacob. I also think that MIB/Smokey, or my favorite, the Locke-ness Monster, can (or more precisely, could) fragment his essence and possess others (i.e. infection).

Here is something that just came to me. Is it only angry, smokey MIB who cannot go past the ash 'barrier' OR does it also stop him when calm. Reason for the question is that i wonder then, WHO was in the hut in the famous making Jacob angry scene? From what we have seen, Jacob doesn't really get angry. He is a calm collected soul lol.

I can't remember if the circle of ash was broken then...would have to go back and check...but it's a good point!

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
I think that MIB only got trapped in his form after he killed Jacob.

Never thought of this. It might make sense.

I also think that MIB/Smokey, or my favorite, the Locke-ness Monster, can (or more precisely, could) fragment his essence and possess others (i.e. infection).

This theory already has some proof. We have once seen - in the episode where Juliet and Kate were handcuffed together for a time - the smoke monster in three parts that merged into one, so maybe this can be done. Maybe the MIB can do more than mere infections, but can also exist simultaneously as many (or up to three) people.

I can't remember if the circle of ash was broken then...would have to go back and check...but it's a good point!

I remember! The ash circle was broken then. And guess who noticed it - Locke!

Tonight's episode was alright. Claire's line that the MIB was coming and that no one can stop it together with the actual ending made up for the episode. Sayid's conversion was surprising. Maybe I am not a big fan of Sayid (I don't think I cared for his episodes much).

Why doesn't Claire want to kill Kate anymore (or maybe she will in the future)? Why doesn't the MIB care that Kate is with his group? By the way, Kate's name (from what I have read) was nowhere to be seen in Jacob's cave. Maybe this is why the MIB is letting her hang around. I actually thought that she would die at the very end of the episode because of her name not being in the cave.

Did anyone watch the preview? (The following is a spoiler if you didn't.) It looks like they give away that Ben dies!?

EDIT:

Maybe the MIB assumes that Kate wants to join his group, and that's why he doesn't want to kill her.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by they see ALL]

Claire may just be too far gone to hate Kate...and may still trust in "her friend" to deliver. After all, she's singing to invisible babies, wrapping up bones, etc. One can't put too much stock in her current mental condition (and who could blame her, really)...

I think that MIB simply wants as many on his side as he can get. He's skeptical of Kate, but in the longrun, what can she really do...I mean, Sayid put a knife through Locke, and yet he's fine... Tends to give you a bit of confidence...

Looks like Sayid's "infection" has fully taken root, and he's gone over to the dark side. Of course, there's always the thing that Jacob could be evil, and MIB is good. (The machine measured your bent towards one side or the other, we were never told explicitly that Sayid measured as evil, only, too far on the one side).... Still, MIB being evil matches the actions better. (Do as I say, or die)...

Ben's death is inevitable, he's now a lost sheep without a shepherd. At least he was quick to see Sayid had "gone over", and got out of Dodge, hehe.... I doubt he'll die in the next episode though...or at least, not perma-death.

Sayid's conversion shouldn't be too surprising. All along, his one focus has been getting Nadia back. MIB offered that, so he's going for it.

Did I miss something? Where's Sawyer in all of this? Wasn't he with MIB?

And "they" are still coming, whoever that is...



[edit on 3-3-2010 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Claire may just be too far gone to hate Kate...and may still trust in "her friend" to deliver. After all, she's singing to invisible babies, wrapping up bones, etc. One can't put too much stock in her current mental condition (and who could blame her, really)...

I guess you're right, but she looked pissed when Kate told her what she did.

I think that MIB simply wants as many on his side as he can get.

A climactic final battle is in the works!

Looks like Sayid's "infection" has fully taken root, and he's gone over to the dark side.

Yup. And Ben was afraid of him - how shocking (who would have thought that Ben would be afraid of someone?)!

Of course, there's always the thing that Jacob could be evil, and MIB is good. (The machine measured your bent towards one side or the other, we were never told explicitly that Sayid measured as evil, only, too far on the one side).... Still, MIB being evil matches the actions better. (Do as I say, or die)...

With 'Lost,' you never know. Now that I think about it, the MIB took the white stone off of the scale to make the black one measure heavier. I thought that the scale was the MIB's, which would signify that he was in control now and that the reign of darkness has begun. The scale, though, could have been Jacob's (that is, it only measures him), which would mean that Jacob was the evil one, and that the MIB is the good one. Everyone has a scale Dogen said, so maybe we saw Jacob's (it was in his cave anyway).

Even with the duality of Ben and Widmore, you still can't say which one was the good one and which one was the evil one. They both did bad things.

Sure the MIB threatens and kills people, but Jacob killed someone intentionally (Nadia). Maybe there are even more deaths due to Jacob too. Then again, though, maybe the MIB killed more people in the long run. Since we have seen the MIB, he has killed many people, so if this is your criteria of judging evilness, then the MIB is the evil one.

Ben's death is inevitable, he's now a lost sheep without a shepherd. At least he was quick to see Sayid had "gone over", and got out of Dodge, hehe....

I doubt he'll die in the next episode though...or at least, not perma-death.

Wasn't Ben running away funny! I don't think he will die just because of the fact that they said it would happen in the preview. This is a huge thing to give away.

Sayid's conversion shouldn't be too surprising. All along, his one focus has been getting Nadia back. MIB offered that, so he's going for it.

The MIB seems just like the devil. He sure was talking like he was, offering Sayid whatever he wanted. What a great show!

Did I miss something? Where's Sawyer in all of this? Wasn't he with MIB?

Maybe he's hanging out with Jin?

Here are some previews:

"Dr. Linus" Promo #1
"Dr. Linus" CTV Promo

[edit on 3-3-2010 by they see ALL]

I felt so under whelmed during this episode. I can't stand these 'filler' episodes from the lost writers that we sometimes have to sit through.

The only thing we learnt this episode was potentially that the ash barrier didn't matter if someone wasn't there to 'be in charge'.

It is the final season of this EPIC series and one episode is wasted. :bnghd:

Originally posted by they see ALL
By the way, Kate's name (from what I have read) was nowhere to be seen in Jacob's cave. Maybe this is why the MIB is letting her hang around. I actually thought that she would die at the very end of the episode because of her name not being in the cave.

Her name is on the 'list' and is in the cave. We just didn't see it.

IGN Interviews co-creator and writers

reply to post by SilentShadow


I don't think it was wasted. At some point the story of each character needs to move along without some jaw-dropping revelation. If at the end of the series, a main character from season 1 is left hanging in the balance, fans won't be happy. This week's episode was one of those that just had to move the story along. As a fan of the show, I try to recognize the spot the writers are in and how they've spread and paced this story.

Half way through the show, I felt the same way. A little underwhelmed. But each and every time one of these episodes that I feel was underwhelming ends, and I watch it back, I'm always left satisfied.

At least the ending really revved up!

I don't think Jacob "killed" Nadia...I simply think he "knew" she was going to die... We already know (or can at least infer) that both Jacob and MIB are supernatural beings, so ascribing the property of limited omniscience isn't that far-fetched for Jacob.

Also, Jacob is calm about the Lighthouse incident, which seems to imply he knows things will turn out right.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Gazrok]

here is general breakdown of "Sundown"




Enjoy !!



AG