Aliens make Crop Circles, Best Evidence Ever - Cosmic Wakening

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I don't have to prove them too you. Your argument is flawed.
My hypothesis makes the assumption that they are man made BASED on evidence. The evidence is not assumed. We know humans exist and we know that humans make crop circles. So when I see a crop circle I can say that they are man made, and this is logical.
Your argument is a strawman that implies that if I cannot show every crop circle being made by man then that must mean that Aliens or another supernatural entity must be responsible.
You need to site an argument like this because you cannot even show any other cause, therefor you need to attack the logical and obvious explanation in order to make an alien or supernatural explanation plausible.
In other words, you are desperate to defend your religious and supernatural belief by attacking the reality that evidence supports.
YOU CANNOT SHOW ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to justify the inclusion of your cause, that being aliens or other supernatural causes, period. You cannot do this for the entire history of CC's.
Using your logic, you could ask me to document the construction of every house ever built, and if I could not, you could claim aliens made some of those houses.

So, when you ask me to prove that they are all man made, I don't have to.
Because there is no other explanation to consider based on evidence.
IF you would like me to consider why I should BELIEVE YOUR BELIEF THAT THEY ARE NOT ALL MAN MADE, please explain why it should be considered using evidence.

Because currently my explanation for CC's is based on the considerations that humans exist, they make crop circles, there are groups dedicated to making CC's,there is an industry that surrounds CC's and that this industry can be observed to promote and present a mythology and mystery surrounding CC's in order to profit from this.
Many of these circles are infused with knowns, in that I mean HUMAN imagery, geometric and mathematic principles and philosophies. They are also interpreted as being significant to HUMAN spiritual beliefs, new age philosophies, cultural prophecies and religious beliefs(Hopi, mayan cultures, paganism etc.) that are also culturally significant and popular today.

This is for this years circles ahead, yes! This coming years circles!

And there is the 2010 conference already planned, where they will talk about all the 2010 circles, that are YET to appear. Now what will happen if NO CIRCLES appear in 2010. What will all the crop circle people talk about? Geez, I hope they get Circles.
Conference2010

Trade Fair offering:
Crop Circle Books and Films
Crop Circle Photographs & Pictures
Jewellry
Clothing
Health Products
Music CD's
Alternative Therapies

Crop Circles have a Crop Circles TRADE FAIR!

Just some of the Business for next year as if the Crop Circles are guaranteed! www.sacredbritain.com...
www.cropcircleconnector.com...
www.glastonburysymposium.co.uk...
www.cropcircleconnector.com...
www.wccsg.com...
www.cropcircletours.com...
www.summerlectures.co.uk...
Now, do you think they really, really, really need circles to appear. Because I do. Do you think that people will be motivated to make these circles?
Because I do.

post by atlasastrowww.abovetopsecret.com...


Now, if you would like me, or others to consider that they are not man made, can you show me that cause existing?
Can you show me that cause making circles?
Can you point out the reasons why, what may motivate the making or the circles and can you point out why the makers would promote certain beliefs surrounding circles?
Because I can do all of this in relation to my claim that the circles are man made.

reply to post by atlasastro


I agree with you, we . . .

know that humans exist and that they are capable of creating crop-circles.

But do we not also . . .

know that ET's exist and that they should be capable of creating crop-circles?

Are you saying there is no chance that any crop circles have been made by ETs?

[edit on 1/1/2010 by JPhish]

Thank you for the reply my friend,

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by atlasastro

 

I agree with you, we . . .

know that humans exist and that they are capable of creating crop-circles.

Thanks for acknowledging that, Yes we do know these things. [edit to add]. Not only do we know humans are capable, we have evidence that they do actually make circles.

But do we not also . . .

know that ET's exist

Really! Show me them. I don't know they exist for certain, I admit that this is not significant, so if you could simply point them out I will integrate this evidence into my approach to the explanation of CC's.
I don't know why anyone has not simply pointed this out before, if it is a known fact that ET's exist.

and that they should be capable of creating crop-circles?

See, this is where the argument breaks down.
You need to inject assumptions in order for that to be possible.
I don't have to do that with a man made explanation because they are known, which you agree with.

Are you saying there is no chance that any crop circles have been made by ETs?

No I am not.
My claim is obvious. That I have a hypothesis that states all CC's are man made. That this hypothesis is based on the facts that you and I both agree on. Those observed facts.
We are trying to discuss the cause, are we not?
We are not trying to discuss the potential for "chances" are we?
In fact, the debate around this topic is about removing chance from the equation by explaining the phenomena.
After all, we could argue that there is a chance that Jesus is making them.
There is a chance that Demons are possessing the crops and making them form patterns.
There is a chance angels are making them.
There is a chance that a collective human psyche is conjuring up these manifestations.
Reptilian shapeshifters in underground bases could be making them.
It could be HAARP!
It could be a secret John Leer Moon Base beaming down messages.
If we want to argue using this method we could be here all day!
I hope you see my point.

But, considering chance, I can actually argue that there is the real chances that all crop circles are man made. I actually have evidence that supports this. That evidence is something you agree exists.
If you would like me to consider the chances that they are made by ET's, just give me something to support that consideration.
I don't think that request is unreasonable is it?

Cheers.

[edit on 1/1/10 by atlasastro]

reply to post by atlasastro


I'm not claiming that crop circles are ET in origin.

I'm saying that it seems rather foolish to conclude that none of them are the result of ET's.

Since you aren't claiming that, we are in agreement.


Now . . .

As for whether or not we know ET's exist.

If you do not know this, there is probably nothing i can say or show you that could convince you otherwise. It's the type of thing you have to know for yourself.

I would never expect anyone to believe me, because i never believed anyone untill i knew it for myself.

[edit on 1/1/2010 by JPhish]

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by atlasastro

 

I'm not claiming that crop circles are ET in origin.

I'm saying that it seems rather foolish to conclude that none of them are the result of ET's.

Since you aren't claiming that, we are in agreement.


Now . . .

I an glad there is somewhere we agree, because I will also politely disagree to some extent.
I think it is also rather foolish to conclude that any circles are made by ET's based on the fact we have absolutely no evidence, at all that they are made by ET's.
That this trend in a lack of evidence if fact transpires over the entire history of CC's.
I can not even begin to imagine how one would even introduce the idea that it is ET's.
Can you?
Other than someone injected it as an entity to explain CC's.
What is the rationale that would direct you or anyone else to the thought that it may be ET's making CC's.
Think of it this way, why are other "unexplained phenomena" not explained by an ET hypothesis?
Ghosts could be ET' technology that is sending us a message!
Miracles as claimed by individuals could be ET.
Religious visions could be inspired by ET's.
Big foot may be ET.
Can you see what I mean.
What is it about CC' that states this is phenomena is ALIEN.
That is could only be done by aliens.
Is it just inserting an "entity" to explain the gaps?

I don't think it is foolish to conclude that none of the circles are made by ET's. Because there is nothing to base a conclusion on, that even just some are made by ET's.
Whilst I will not rule it out as being possible, to make a conclusion that some are made by CC's seems to defy logic.

As for whether or not we know ET's exist.

If you do not know this, there is probably nothing i can say or show you that could convince you otherwise. It's the type of thing you have to know for yourself.

I would never expect anyone to believe me, because i never believed anyone untill i knew it for myself.

Mate, as I said, I do not know for certain and I am honest in pointing out that my personal ignorance or lack of knowledge relating the existence of ET's are insignificant.
And conversely, your personal belief is equally insignificant in relation to pointing out the reality of Alien existence being true to me.

As I said, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why I should believe that some CC's are caused by Aliens.
I accept your belief and respect it.
I express a belief that all CC's are man made, I show why I believe that, I support that belief.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Originally posted by atlasastro
I think it is also rather foolish to conclude that any circles are made by ET's based on the fact we have absolutely no evidence, at all that they are made by ET's.

i agree

That this trend in a lack of evidence if fact transpires over the entire history of CC's.
I can not even begin to imagine how one would even introduce the idea that it is ET's.
Can you?

honestly, my first impression of crop circles was that they were some sort of pagan ritual or just the farmers having some fun. Later on i think that nerds wanted to flex their creative muscles.

Other than someone injected it as an entity to explain CC's.
What is the rationale that would direct you or anyone else to the thought that it may be ET's making CC's.

Most people want to believe that aliens are out there doing something harmless or benevolent. I understand why they would try to make that connection. Movies like "Signs" do not help.

Think of it this way, why are other "unexplained phenomena" not explained by an ET hypothesis?
Ghosts could be ET' technology that is sending us a message!
Miracles as claimed by individuals could be ET.
Religious visions could be inspired by ET's.
Big foot may be ET.
Can you see what I mean.

Yes i see what you mean, but if aliens exist, everything you just said there may be a valid hypothesis in my opinion. To conclude these things, i agree is silly unless you know for a fact that aliens exist.

What is it about CC' that states this is phenomena is ALIEN.
That is could only be done by aliens.
Is it just inserting an "entity" to explain the gaps?

Yes, it's weak inductive reasoning.

I don't think it is foolish to conclude that none of the circles are made by ET's. Because there is nothing to base a conclusion on, that even just some are made by ET's.
Whilst I will not rule it out as being possible, to make a conclusion that some are made by CC's seems to defy logic.

I agree on all accounts. I was merely expressing that i'm open to the possibility they are made by ET's, even though i don't believe they are. Simply because "you never know".

Mate, as I said, I do not know for certain and I am honest in pointing out that my personal ignorance or lack of knowledge relating the existence of ET's are insignificant.
And conversely, your personal belief is equally insignificant in relation to pointing out the reality of Alien existence being true to me.

absolutely

As I said, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why I should believe that some CC's are caused by Aliens.

oh i'm not saying you should believe that, i'm just saying you should perhaps be a little more open to the idea. I mean, if tomorrow morning you walk outside and a 40 ft wide flying saucer zooms over your house at 700 mph less than 3,000 feet away from you, what would you think then? wouldn't that make you think twice?

I accept your belief and respect it.
I express a belief that all CC's are man made, I show why I believe that, I support that belief.

Thank you for your thoughts.

yeah, you too.

[edit on 1/1/2010 by JPhish]

reply to post by wmd_2008


I totally agree that you should break the items down and look for the actual evidence, however you don't need to be a member to look at videos.

All I am saying is that not ALL of them are man-made. More evidence suggests that we could not make at least some of them using any methods employed by people with boards, companses and ropes, in the times stated and also leaving behind the evidence that is, such as microwaving the corn stems to bend them without breaking and also the electromagnetism and the likes, without being seen once.

There is more evidence that we cannot create them in such ways than we can, which leaves only an unknown source or force creating them. I think it's ET's or UFO's, but could be wrong.

I do not think it comes from inside the earth and I definitely do not think it is a satellite or especially people with ropes and boards. What else is there.

Crop circles creep me out.

reply to post by aorAki


I cannot believe what you wrote....if you knew anything about crop formations I would be very surprised.

I have studied them for years and although many are man-made the genuine ones are easily distiguishable. Hoax formations are generally very crude and there is substantial damage to the plants from being beaten to the ground by a plank of wood or other such implement. Genuine formations exhibit peculiarities which cannot be created by man in the pitch black of night and in a very short time period.

My question to you is....how do the 'hoaxers' bend the plant stems to 90 or more degrees without causing damage, in afore mentioned conditions?

I look forward to your response.

MH

ps If you are going to use pseudo-latin for your signature I suggest you try nil carborundum illegitimi ....it sounds more convincing

[edit on 3/1/2010 by martinhuyton]

reply to post by atlasastro



Pardon me, but YOUR argument is flawed.

[Using Venn diagram logic, here, if you remember freshman algebra]: In the UNIVERSE of Crop circles there are subsets that are of both human origin and unknown origin. Now, human origin CCs is a very large subset/circle and unknown origin would be much smaller, that much we can agree on. Now, what we can also assume is that there is some overlapping of these two circles (that is to say, some 'unknown' CCs will surely be shown to be of human origin). YOUR CONTENTION, however - which is incorrect - is that because you've only seen evidence of humans creating crop circles that the entire group/subset/circle of unknown CCs MUST be contained entirely within the human crop circle subset.

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS INTERPOLATION!

ESPECIALLY, WHEN YOU CONSIDER... too many of the more complex designs and limited time to create them cannot be explained by human intervention/involvement!

forgive me if this has already been posted:


UFO's Making A Crop Circle

there are other videos on that same page...


i saw this about 10 years ago and i've never known WHAT to make of it

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
reply to post by atlasastro

 

Pardon me, but YOUR argument is flawed.

You are pardoned.
Yes I know may argument seems flawed to you because it does not entertain imagined, or fantasized causes that cannot be shown ever, in the entire history of crop circles, making or causing CC's. It only accounts for knowns and then uses these knowns to form an explanation for the unknowns.

In the UNIVERSE of Crop circles there are subsets that are of both human origin and unknown origin. Now, human origin CCs is a very large subset/circle and unknown origin would be much smaller, that much we can agree on.

Obviously we don't agree on that, as my hypothesis attributes the entire phenomena to humans. But I will let you play for a little while.

Now, what we can also assume is that there is some overlapping of these two circles (that is to say, some 'unknown' CCs will surely be shown to be of human origin).

Yes we can make that assumption. In fact your whole argument is assumed, only my hypothess makes assumptions, but it is based on evidence.

YOUR CONTENTION, however - which is incorrect - is that because you've only seen evidence of humans creating crop circles that the entire group/subset/circle of unknown CCs MUST be contained entirely within the human crop circle subset.

Yes, BUT it is not flawed as I use a HYPOTHESIS to explain the "unknown". I DO NOT IGNORE IT "unknown" or try to include it into one set of known.

So to explain these UNKNOWN circles I use evidence to create a hypothesis that EXPLAINS the CC's. I use the subset of KNOWN human CC's and the evidence available from them and then create a hypothesis using the KNOWN data.
IF THIS HYPOTHESIS IS WRONG SIMPLY SHOW SOMETHING NON HUMAN MAKING CIRCLES so as to create another subset based on evidence that would also account for the unknowns.
It is that easy.

That is it PERIOD.
Please for the love of logic and reason just stop inventing things.

You say that these circles are of UNKNOWN origin, THAT DOES NOT IMPLY THAT THEY ARE NOT MAN MADE it means that they are UNKNOWN.
I explain that using KNOWN data, NOT ASSUMED OR IMAGINED OR RELIGIOUS OR ABSTRACT BELIEFS.

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS INTERPOLATION!

I don't make an interpolation from the unknowns. I have a hypothesis that is accounting for the unknowns, BUT
My hypothesis is the interpolation because it is based on KNOWN DATA.

ESPECIALLY, WHEN YOU CONSIDER...

I don't consider assumptions at all in my hypothesis.

too many of the more complex designs and limited time to create them

Time frame is based on testimony. Design has showed a progression from simple to complex(how human is that)

cannot be explained by human intervention/involvement!

Man, that's a lot of typing for not saying anything new.

Answer one question: Have ALL crop circles been shown to be of human origin?

[can you, at least, give me that?]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


It is nothing new because it is the truth.
It does not change.

Are all houses made by man?


Prove it!
Prove it Squirrel, otherwise some house are made by Aliens.
Go on, prove all house are man made.


Edit:Logic for Squirrels

[edit on 4/1/10 by atlasastro]

reply to post by atlasastro




Nice post mate 100% agree with what you say if any of the CC believers are interested I have a nice bridge for sale in San Francisco, if they keep up the spook or ufo myth going they can sell more books and dvd's to the gullible.

Can't let this thread die - this has not been resolved to my satisfaction.

So... a WHOLE new approach - you ready?

I concede this argument. That's right... you WIN! Where-as, there is plenty of proof that humans make crop circles, in the past and and the present, and no physical evidence (only circumstantial) - that I am aware of - that anything other than humans have done so.

Just for the sake of (your own) argument, and my peace of mind: I ask you to please submit ANY video evidence of any of the more complex crop circles being done by humans (you know the ones).

Thanks, in advance.

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

Can't let this thread die - this has not been resolved to my satisfaction.

Just for the sake of (your own) argument, and my peace of mind: I ask you to please submit ANY video evidence of any of the more complex crop circles being done by humans (you know the ones).

ok folks, I've just come across this researcher (richard hall) from Richplanet.net.

he's an engineer and troubleshooter by background, so he has a fair idea around different kinds of energies.

his witnesses are very solidly in that similar area (aerospace engineers etc) and the information they give is fresh to me, hopefully to you too. this may provide a new slant on this particular discussion, as they decsribe finding board marks in many of the most complex formations..


www.richplanet.net...

reply to post by sam_inc


very good point you have. Roads and skyskarapers took months to build. while crop circles are huge symmetric images made to be seen from above, sometimes with 3D effects. (and yeah, they are made only by bendig and folding crops) To make something like that is such a short time You would need a team With lifts and helicopters. And THAT is very difficult to leave undetected.

Originally posted by pr0metheu5

ok folks, I've just come across this researcher (richard hall) from Richplanet.net.

he's an engineer and troubleshooter by background, so he has a fair idea around different kinds of energies.

his witnesses are very solidly in that similar area (aerospace engineers etc) and the information they give is fresh to me, hopefully to you too. this may provide a new slant on this particular discussion, as they decsribe finding board marks in many of the most complex formations..


www.richplanet.net...

Interesting spin on who the real hoaxers are. See www.cropcirclesecrets.org... for more on the Circlemakers reputation.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by Neo__]

Check this out. The crop formation below depicts a beautiful Celtic cross formed on July 17, 2008.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7862b00fa85d.jpg[/atsimg]

What's very interesting about this circle is the central circle. This circle makes this formation one of the most important to date. And what makes this so important is that there is no tram line running through the circle. This image below shows the eight foot perimeter around the circle before people began trampling through it. How could a person get into that circle and out again without trampling the perimeter or without leaving mechanical hoist marks in the ground around it. Did they pole vault across it, risking damage to the crop formation? Or was it built from the air?

Since I couldn't crop the image so that the whole thing could be seen on the screen I posted two images: the first one a reverse image of the second one. Save it to disk for a better look, or perhaps someone could 'adjust' this image so that all of it could be seen at once.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/96249eb4f1b7.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eda7fe666c32.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 12-1-2010 by Neo__]