The Frightening Rise Of Christian Persecution

reply to post by Lilitu


Then if you see it as my saying "they aren't true Christians", then you are mistaken. I never said that, you did.

I disagree with their antics, at times. That's what I said.

Please don't try to make something ugly of a statement, simply because you wish to.

I also don't appreciate other impertinent comments being thrown in face, of which you have no knowledge.

Nobody has ever claimed to be perfect. Cut me with a knife, I'll bleed.
Just human. It's been said over and over. You can take most anything, twist it, and make something nasty of it, if you choose to do so.

I know how to do that too. (Just so you'll know) . I prefer not to. I don't like making unfair statements and twisting someone's words around just to provide myself an oppportunity to vent.

Edit to add: Treat one another like vermin? What are you reading? It's almost like you having a discussion by yourself.

[edit on 1/26/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Originally posted by bignick
Another fundie here who is playing victim to lend credibility to his sad belief.

Blacks have been persecuted.
Muslims have been persecuted.
Yezidis have been persecuted.
Pagans have been persecuted.


It is laughable for a bible-basher to even mention the word 'persecution' concerning himself.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by bignick]

I agree with this post.
Yezidis are still persecuted horribly, by members of myriad faiths.

These three books:

*"God is Not Great: Why Religion Poisons Everything" by journalist Christopher Hitchens.

*"The End of Faith" by atheist author Sam Harris.

*"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.


Are scholarly studies on atheism. Are they not allowed a voice, without theists feeling quite so put upon and persecuted? I'm not an atheist, but I've read all three books and appreciated them greatly.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
The only thing I'm confused about is why you continue to subject yourself to it all by reading this thread?

How do I know I won't meet you on the street tomorrow, handing me pamphlets trying to guilt-trip me about nonsense?

It doesn't even have to be me, it can be anyone who just doesn't want to hear this crap. That's all I'm personally saying. Keep it at church and you will NEVER have a problem. But see the problem is your church tells you to go out and spread "the word" to people. THAT is the real problem.

I've never known a Christian to push anything on anybody.

You must live in a very different part of the country than I do, then. Or maybe you just selectively tend to forget such things because you sympathize with other Christians more yourself.

Not all Christians are Fundamentalists. I personally am not, and tend to think they are a little "out there". They have covered up the television on Sundays, and I can't even bear to watch their antics at times.

Then you shouldn't be here defending them, because I have no problem with Christians who keep their spirituality to themselves, like the personal matter that it is.

As far as "it's about time Christians were persecuted", what do you think you are doing now? Do you really want to be that guy? (shivers).

Yes, I would love to be "that guy," because despite whatever nasty words I may throw at you, at the end of the day I am still a loving person and would not actually bring harm to anyone. I can't say the same for many Christians I see on TV who support things like foreign laws being passed that would sentence gay people to death. Again this may not be you personally but it is really happening.

Jesus Christ was tortured to death in the most cruel and barbaric of fashions. I take it you don't consider that to be religious persecution?

It's comments like this that make me want to post graphic images of what the Inquisition would do to people. Being crucified is simply not the most cruel and barbaric way to die. Imagine an "anal pear" being inserted through your anus into your intestines, then opening up to reveal razor-sharp petals that are turned inside of you. And that's just getting started. That is all I have to say about that. All in Jesus' name, Amen.

Closed minded, hateful, judgmental people are not my idea of an interesting conversation. There is nothing anyone can say to you, or your buddies. Go wallow in it, be the narrow minded, intolerant person, with only vile remarks to make about something others hold dear.

Somebody has to stand up to religious zealots who, if they had their way, would bring back medieval practices. Or else they would actually do it.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
It's almost like you having a discussion by yourself.

[edit on 1/26/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Well it is hard to have an intelligent discussion with religious automata.

reply to post by bsbray11


lol so any wack job that tortures people and is not religious or believes something along the same lines as you, is representative of you?

reply to post by Lilitu


it's rough having a meaningful discussion with people who can't seem to tell the difference between one person and another.

Originally posted by undo
lol so any wack job that tortures people and is not religious or believes something along the same lines as you, is representative of you?

No one has ever tortured anyone else in the name of what I personally "believe" (which is not much).

I'm just saying, these are the people who brought your religion to you and forced it upon your ancestors, and the reason it is still here today. It was pure brutal force and psychological domination. Not because it's catchy because of how loving and peaceful and truthful it is.

reply to post by bsbray11


no, it was the most powerful political force on the planet. that should be a big clue right there. what does absolute power do? it corrupts absolutely. it's perfect evidence that in our current human state, human beings can't be trusted with huge amounts of power nor should we seek to have huge amounts of power because of what it does to ANY human being, not just some popes or their minions. every seat of power on this planet, got to its elevated position by corruption , by hurting others by being sadistic. NO WORLD VIEW HAS ESCAPED IT.

it fries my potatoes when people claim this is a "christian" thing, as if "christians" alone are capable of such depravity, and not a human condition that has nothing to do with the rest of the planet and everything to do with corruption and insanity

reply to post by undo


Certainly it's possible for someone to be both Christian and NOT a mass murderer. But then my question is are they a kinder person BECAUSE of Christianity, or simply because of their individual personality?

You don't need it to be a compassionate person. Aside from the common-sense morals it is basically just a system asking you to believe in a bunch of mythology that doesn't even make sense and was all originally meant to be taken metaphorically.

reply to post by bsbray11


Excuse me for "jumping" like that and interrupting but you know that christians aren't the only ones who are not keeping their faith to themselves,right?I mean,take a quick look here in ATS.

Come on,a good subject for discussion would be who's not doing that.

en.wikipedia.org...

You can do the leg-work if you're curious......but it appears that Christians have been the most persecuted group in all of history.

reply to post by PowerSlave


Adopting Pagan rituals/dates is one thing, but what about things like this:

THE BURNING TIMES:The extermination of Witches and other heretics

Impact of Malleus Maleficarum on persecution of witches in England

The Persecution of Women as Witches

Oh, I know what you are thinking....this happened several hundred years ago! Modern Christians are not like that.
But, the truth is, Christians are still at it!

Ongoing Persecution of Pagans in Modern Greece

Witch Hunts and Human Rights Abuses in Africa

'Child-witches' of Nigeria seek refuge

Churches denounce African children as "witches"

The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him - Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.

Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files. ...

www.sermonaudio.com...

Young Girls targeted, burned, and beaten as 'witches' in African Congo

The Republic of the Congo in Africa, land where babies get raped by grown men because shamans tell them it is the only way to 'cure' themselves of HIV, is now practicing 'witch hunts' against young adolescent girls. Women's eNews reports that one girl, Chance Chubaka, was accused of being a witch after her father and grandfather died.

"Her uncle agreed. He tied her hands together with plastic bags and burned them, a common technique in the Democratic Republic of Congo to illicit confessions from children tagged as witches. The scars on Chance's hands remain. Her uncle also burned her legs, she says, and finally kicked her out of the house..."

pretty-scary.net...

tagged w/ Witchcraft
current.com...

See, it goes on even today, as little children, who most likely have never even heard the word "witch" in their lives, are tortured and burned. Where do you think the people of Africa got these ideas? I can tell you where, from Christian Missionaries, that's where! Can any Christian defend that as Christian behaviour? Jesus would roll over in his grave if he knew what people do in his name.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
Excuse me for "jumping" like that and interrupting but you know that christians aren't the only ones who are not keeping their faith to themselves,right?I mean,take a quick look here in ATS.

Come on,a good subject for discussion would be who's not doing that.

I am fine with expressing and debating differences of opinions/beliefs, but I think what really irks me about Christianity in particular is that it has a built-in mechanism for impressing itself upon people intentionally, known as "evangelicalism." And I know that aspect isn't even limited to Christianity, but Christians still do it and I have been personally exposed to it and take offense at the pure arrogance + unreasonableness of their position. Maybe my problem is the combination of someone having 100% faith in their beliefs and pressing them upon others as if it's a necessary action for as many people as possible to be "converted" as per their pre-conceptions. It can be almost militant, and historically it HAS been militant. Maybe it's the fact that I've grown up in a part of this country where Christians actively try to "convert" others, even abandoning logic and appealing to their own faith endlessly as if they can just bull-doze over any logic or reasoning and still "win" people.

I like nothing better than for everyone to admit we all have no idea what in the hell we are actually doing here. I also like thinking that we were given a brain in order to think logically and rationally. I don't like people thinking there is a "war" on for my soul and if I don't simply have faith in x then I'm doomed. Or people thinking they are better than someone else because their religion is right and everybody else's is wrong. You don't have to be Christian for either of those attitudes to develop, and Christians don't necessarily have to have such attitudes.

reply to post by autowrench


note they are mostly women ? they weren't after witches, they were thinning the female population. this happens periodically all over the planet. the witch thing in salem was a device used to remove people from the population that were undesirables for whatever reason. kids were used to accuse the people, who were almost exclusively..........women. so and so has a grudge cause martha jane wouldn't do the wild thang with him in the cornfield, so wallah, she's a witch. most of the people who died, weren't witches in the first place. just victims.

reply to post by bsbray11


i'm sorry but have you read any books lately? all viewpoints in the western world, have a platform they use to evangelize other people with, including MTV. lol

seriously. your filter is heavy duty grade

reply to post by undo


You're probably right. Like I said I grew up around this particular brand of nonsense and it caused a lot of internal dissonance with me, that caused me to heavily question ideas I was brought up with before eventually renouncing them. I guess scars from that must still be showing, because to this day I cannot stand being preached to.

Originally posted by undo
note they are mostly women ? they weren't after witches, they were thinning the female population.

Sorry but I don't buy that for a second. What happened at Salem was no different at all from what the Catholics did to millions of people, and it was in the name of their religion. They killed both women and men for completely asinine reasons.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by bsbray11]

reply to post by bsbray11


i am from michigan. i had the opposite problem. when i became a christian, my partying buddies dropped me like a hot potato. i remember one in particular who was so freaked out by the idea, she actually recoiled from me as if i had a disease and she might catch it. on the up side, without all that partying, i discovered i could play musical instruments, paint and grew to enjoy reading and literature. ( i was a hippie. ) not that i couldn't have done that if i hadn't been a christian, but it sure gave me perspective i was lacking before that.

reply to post by bsbray11

Catholics did to millions of people, and it was in the name of their religion.

and who were the millions of people? think of how many "witches" were tortured, usually in very perverse manners, like vaginal impalement, and nearly exclusively female till we get to the inquisition in which they killed everyone who wasn't catholic - -not just who wasn't christian, because many of those killed were christians who simply weren't catholic.

it's that filter again.

Also you will see that Buddhists have been treated badly too and in some reasearch to show you, I have seen many news stories about them in the past but will try give some examples.

_____________________________________________________________

Thailand

Primarily Buddhist Thailand has been involved in a fight with Muslim insurgents in the South. Buddhists have been beheaded and clergy and teachers are frequently threatened with their lives. Shootings of Buddhists are quite frequent in the South, as are bombings, and attacking religious establishments.

Bangladesh

The Buddhist communities of Bangladesh are under pressure from the military and police not to practice Buddhism, and Buddhists have suffered abuse, arrest, and even rapes. The government encourages Muslim settlement in Buddhist areas, as part of its campaign to promote Islam.According to Jumma exiles, torture and murder of Buddhists is a frequent occurrence.

Vietnam
Despite the communist regime's hostility, Buddhism is still widely practiced in Vietnam. According to Human Rights News, "Vietnam continues to systematically imprison and persecute independent Buddhists as well as followers of other religions."


North Korea

Religious practices are severely restricted in North Korea, as many religious denomination are persecuted by the communist regime. Nevertheless, Buddhists in North Korea reportedly fared better than other religious groups—particularly Christians. The only cult that is encouraged by the government is that of 'Dear Leader' Kim Jong-II and his late father Kim Il-Sung.


North Korea

Religious practices are severely restricted in North Korea, as many religious denomination are persecuted by the communist regime. Nevertheless, Buddhists in North Korea reportedly fared better than other religious groups—particularly Christians. The only cult that is encouraged by the government is that of 'Dear Leader' Kim Jong-II and his late father Kim Il-Sung.
_________________________________________________________

Obviously people will say if religion is bad for you are better off without it, but human nature will always create religion because it is part of our souls and make up to discover God. Today the new religions are UFOs and Aliens; we take our eyes off the scriptures but look to the stars for other Gods that could help us. But we have been there before in our ancient past and the religion settles our nerves and hopes of the next life and existence, but to prove which one is right is down to faith and research and clues and life changing experiences.

If there are Aliens I am sure they would have reached a higher state of dimension than this limited universe before they even figure out worm holes and time travel itself so it goes full circle or our hope comes to a standstill.

Originally posted by undo
and who were the millions of people? think of how many "witches" were tortured, usually in very perverse manners, like vaginal impalement, and nearly exclusively female till we get to the inquisition in which they killed everyone who wasn't catholic - -not just who wasn't christian, because many of those killed were christians who simply weren't catholic.

it's that filter again.

Sounds like you have some hard filters of your own. I only stated the obvious -- the Inquisition and Salem witch trials are both examples of Christians killing in the name of their religion. I don't understand why it has to keep coming back to sexism being the root of either event when both men and women were killed thoughtlessly. Not to mention being a Christian in the first place automatically gives you a handful of filters.