Luciferianism and Freemasonry

Originally posted by Choronzon
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Sure why not Mr. Albert Pike himself:

"I set out to learn for myself, and what I learned may upset many Christians, who have to be told that the King James version of the Bible, which they revere as the literal, precise, correct work of God, is not always so. Some of the error in it was quite deliberate, including the biblical designation of Lucifer as Satan, along with the concordant story of a fallen angel. It is difficult to anticipate the reactions of some believers on being told that there are gross mistakes in the King James version, but, please, do not throw this book across the room in disgust until you have read a bit more."

If you would like to read more, please do:
www.masonicinfo.com

Since you like false information, you may like this false quote from Albert Pike on lucifer:
Taxils Hoax

[edit on 12/6/2009 by Choronzon]

Right...................................................Lucifer does not equal satan!

Satan does not exist! "King" Albert Pike says so...........

Conclusion: We masons adore "god" which in reality is satan but we are not mature enough to admit EVEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG, so we must ENDLESSLY make up excuses to cover it up.

Using the same cologne gets old after a while, so either buy a new brand or take a shower more often.

Originally posted by prevenge
Masonry is based deeply in Kabbala and Gnosticism, so you have the Gnostic understanding of 'The Lucifer'.. 'light bringing' process of the esoteric anatomy, ...THEN you have fanatic Christians using base-minded primitive cave-man-like thinking in superstitiously thinking that Gnostics / Masons worship some 'person' called Lucifer, because the Christians fear punishment from their patriarchal idea of God if they 'stray' into understanding esoteric or occult explanations of the divinity within man... by in any way straying from the surface-interpretation-level writings in the Bible, written by other men..

[edit on 6-12-2009 by prevenge]

It has nothing to do with what christians fear or do not fear. A lof of people attack secret socities because 1)they like to do everything in secrecy 2)they don't understand(or at least pretend not to understand) religion and philosophy, especially when it doesn't suit them to do so.

And occult knowledge is a lot more than just studying man....It is about studying/understanding life, creation, the universe and ultimately how everything ties together.


[edit on 6-12-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

Satan does not exist! "King" Albert Pike says so...........

That statement is not contained within the link.
He instead is arguing for the distinction between the name "Lucifer" and Satan, and the inaccuracies in the translations in the King Jame's Version of the Bible.

Originally posted by RuneSpider

Satan does not exist! "King" Albert Pike says so...........

That statement is not contained within the link.
He instead is arguing for the distinction between the name "Lucifer" and Satan, and the inaccuracies in the translations in the King Jame's Version of the Bible.

Pepsi78 already discussed the connection between lucifer, satan and the babylonian king. Please spend 20 minutes and re-read the thread. Thanks!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I have, thank you, and I disagree with his assessment.

I also disagree with your interpretation of the quote Choronzon posted.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I also disagree with your interpretation of the quote Choronzon posted.

Well that doesn't really suprise me. "The greatest trick the devil played was convincing people he doesn't exist" I don't remeber who first said it but its certainly an interesting quote.

What better way of manipulating the ignorant masses(and a lot of low level masons) from behind the scenes then to deny satan's existance?

I could go on and tell you that lucifer/satan is leader of the draconian elite from alpha draconis, better known as reptillians, and has waged war with many other alien species, but NO DOUBT it would fall on deaf ears since you already know everything..............

You see just because I respect the bible for its half-truths doesn't make me a fanatical christian anymore than reading the koran will make you an "islamic terrorist". What you read, what you believe and what you do with the knowledge you gain is entirely up to each person's discretion.

Now run along and pick on someone less knowledgeable, preferrably on some kool-aid mainstream site. Most "old-time" ATSers will destroy your non-existant theories. We are too smart for you!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Well that doesn't really suprise me. "The greatest trick the devil played was convincing people he doesn't exist" I don't remeber who first said it but its certainly an interesting quote.

I have never stated I disbelieve in Satan.
I stated instead, that I disagreed with your interpretation of Choronzon's quote, which simply stated the inherent deficiencies with the King James Version of the Bible.

What better way of manipulating the ignorant masses(and a lot of low level masons) from behind the scenes then to deny satan's existance?

Belief in Satan varies in masonry member to member.
No doubt to their interpretation of his characterization.
I myself, not being a Mason, cannot state more than my own beliefs on the subject, gained as they have been from my own readings.

I could go on and tell you that lucifer/satan is leader of the draconian elite from alpha draconis, better known as reptillians, and has waged war with many other alien species, but NO DOUBT it would fall on deaf ears since you already know everything.

Quiet a bit to the opposite, I know very little. I enjoy learning much though.
However, your claim strains belief.

What you read, what you believe and what you do with the knowledge you gain is entirely up to each person's discretion.

On this we can certainly agree.

Now run along and pick on someone less knowledgeable, preferrably on some kool-aid mainstream site. Most "old-time" ATSers will destroy your non-existant theories. We are too smart for you!

You must not be referring to yourself, as I was a member of this site before you.

I am not picking on you, I am however disagreeing with you.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
You must not be referring to yourself, as I was a member of this site before you.

I am not picking on you, I am however disagreeing with you.

You keep stating the KJB is incorrect when all the evidence points to the fact that INDEED IT IS CORRECT! I call that denial, but hey believe whatever makes you feel good.

Also I first joined late 2005 after roaming around different conspiracy sites for 3-4 months. This is my second account because I got banned for too many warnings the first time. I was a little too enthusiastic and quickly learned "patience is a virtue" especially when dealing with less-than-honest people.

"A little to the west of the sun, is the Planet jupiter, called by the Indo-Aryans, VARUNA; and a little east of the moon, the planet Venus, called by them MITRA. Originally MITRA was the Morning-Star, the MITHRA of the Irano-Aryan Phosphor of the Greeks, and Lucifer of the Romans; and VARUNA the Evning-Star, Hespe-ros of the Greeks, Hesperus and Vesper of the Romans." - Page of 805 of the Thirty-Second Degree: Master of the Royal Secret - Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor & Guide Second Edition-Revised

-Sub-note In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star

"The Apocalypse, that sublime Kabbalistic and prophetic Summary of all the figures, divides its images into three groups of seven, and after each group there is to be silence in Heaven. There are Seven Seals to be opened, Seven mysteries to know, Seven difficulties to overcome, Seven trumpets to sound, and Seven cups to empty.
To Those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apocalypse is the representation of a Sublime Faith, aspiring only to God and despising the Evil identified as lucifer The name Lucifer (the Morning star, the son of the Morning) was derived from the ancient Latin word fro Light-bearer first used in the fifth century Vulgate translation (Latin) of the Holy Bible. What a strange and curious name to give to the Symbol of Darkness! Centuries later, the work of poets like Dante and Milton equated the name Lucifer with Satan. Does Lucifer bear the brilliant Light that blinds the feeble, sensual, and selfish Souls? Absolutely! Tradition are full of Divine Revelation and Inspiration, and genuine Inspiration is not the restricted to one Age or one Creed. Plato and Philo were similarly inspired" p. 321 - Chapter 19:Grand Pontiff Morals & Dogma For the 21st Century A Modern Interpretation of Albert Pikes Greatest Work

I talked with a worshipful master mason - very wise man - when I was considering to join the fraternity and he told me that satan and lucifer and all the other names* to that creature, on the Bible, refer to the same being!

And he told me in plain words: they believe, love and pray for God, not lucifer.

Another mason that I know said that they study lucifer because "you must know your enemy"... or something like that he said.

*Most - or all - the names here: www.markbeast.com...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

You WISH true meanings are/were lost in time...

Dr. William Combs, a Seminary Academy Dean and noted Bible historian, details how the Bible has been both inadvertently and intentionally mistranslated in his peer reviewed essay Errors in the King James Version?.

The obvious loss of meaning by intentional mistranslation does nothing to support the statement that meanings can not be lost in time, when in fact, human nature can cause this very thing to occur.

The Reverend Ken Collins, an ordained minister who holds a Masters in Divinity, authored several essays on differences in Bible translations. A portion of his anotated findings regarding the English Standard Version follows:

The English Standard Version uses archaic constructions to produce a text that sounds more literal than it really is. For example, Hosea 9:1 in the English Standard Version reads, “Rejoice not, O Israel” where the equally conservative Holman Christian Standard Bible reads, “Israel, do not rejoice.” The translations are equally literal. Perhaps I should say, “Write not archaic language, O translators!” So this translation only makes it halfway into modern English. Genesis 12:1 reads, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house,” which seems more literal that the same passage in the New International Version, which says, “Leave your country, your people and your father’s household”; however in this case, the NIV is actually more literal, because no one seems to have “kindred” these days, and in modern usage, “leaving your father’s house” implies that you are living in your father’s spare bedroom or basement, which is not what the ancient text means. Most Bible translations cannot resist finding their viewpoints on contemporary social issues in the ancient text. The ESV is not an exception. It is just as circumspect of conservative sensitivities as the New Revised Standard Version is of feminist concerns. In other words, I find as much to dislike in the ESV as in the NRSV, but for opposite reasons.

It is obvious form the above that many meanings have be altered or misunderstood. Your statement that meanings can not change over time is preposterous in its absolutism. Meanings can, and do change over time, whether by design or mistake, phrases and words can have many different interpretations throughout human history.

Low iq or denial syndrome...

I see you are resorting to personal insults again instead of presenting refuting evidence.





[edit on 7-12-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Conclusion: We masons adore "god" which in reality is satan but we are not mature enough to admit EVEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG, so we must ENDLESSLY make up excuses to cover it up.

And here is the point of my Original Post. How can anyone 'adore' something that they;

A) Do not believe in.

B) Do not feel they are worshipping.

and/or

C) Do not equate as a Supreme Being, and therefore not God-like and worthy of adoration?

"Shakespeare uses a linguistic technique known as functional shift that involves, for example using a noun to serve as a verb. Researchers found that this technique allows the brain to understand what a word means before it understands the function of the word within a sentence. This process causes a sudden peak in brain activity and forces the brain to work backwards in order to fully understand what Shakespeare is trying to say."

"Professor Philip Davis, from the University's School of English, said: "The brain reacts to reading a phrase such as ‘he godded me' from the tragedy of Coriolanus, in a similar way to putting a jigsaw puzzle together. If it is easy to see which pieces slot together you become bored of the game, but if the pieces don't appear to fit, when we know they should, the brain becomes excited. By throwing odd words into seemingly normal sentences, Shakespeare surprises the brain and catches it off guard in a manner that produces a sudden burst of activity - a sense of drama created out of the simplest of things."

So by using a linguistic technique such as functional shift when writing the bibles like the kings james version. You can see how easy it is to sway the reader by design. This printing/reading technology was imploded hundreds of years of go.

"Psalms 46 is not unknown to cipher enthusiasts. This is the famous Psalms where it has been written that Shakespeare wrote his name in cipher. You see, the 46th word from the beginning is "Shake", and the 46th word from the end (not counting the final "Selah") is "Speare". The theory goes that Shakespeare was 46 years old when the KJV was printed." - Sub-note This is with the original 1611 version of the KJV the 1611 is as real as it gets to the meaning of what was originally wrote.

And the Selah at the end is translated today to mean "think about it" a interesting place to put such a word. Although if we translated it a bit more from arabic it would translate out as connection.

And if your wondering why the Arab translation in the king james. Will if you research King James Royal Court you will find guys like Francis Bacon. & to note his work - I had rather believe all the the fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore God never wrought miracle to convince atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. - 16. Of Atheism The Essays - Sub-note Al translates The & coran translates Qur'an

The wonderful part here is we also see a linguistic technique such as functional shift with Sir Francis Bacons works as well. Everyone in King James Royal inner Court was provided with the skill of how to write in functional shift. But now you should ask yourselves why?

Francis Bacon, 1st Viscount St Alban KC (22 January 1561 – 9 April 1626)
James VI & I (19 June 1566 – 27 March 1625)
John Dee (13 July 1527 – 1608 or 1609) - Chuckles
Christopher Marlowe (c. 26 February 1564–30 May 1593) Shakespeare is his pen name
William Shakespeare (baptised 26 April 1564 – died 23 April 1616)
(The Authorized King James Version is an English translation of the Christian Bible begun in 1604 and completed in 1611 by the Church of England.)

Tudor/Tutor Rose Dynasty 1485-1603 - History: The Tudor line failed in 1603 with the death of Elizabeth I of England, Through secret negotiations with her cousin James. The king of scotland she united England & Scotland/Land of the Templars

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


EarthCitizen07

How are you sure that you are not worshiping Osiris without knowing it?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

You WISH true meanings are/were lost in time...

Dr. William Combs, a Seminary Academy Dean and noted Bible historian, details how the Bible has been both inadvertently and intentionally mistranslated in his peer reviewed essay Errors in the King James Version?.

Oh its "peer reviewed"....that means it MUST BE credible! Hahaaa

Honestly, I could not care less what Dr. William Combs believes as the bible speaks for itself! Yes there might be a few mistakes here and there but what your implying is total nonsense.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Low iq or denial syndrome...

I see you are resorting to personal insults again instead of presenting refuting evidence.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

I rarely start an ATS session thinking "Hey I wanna insult someone." It's a last resort "solution" towards overly closed-minded people that have nothing valuable to share.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I rarely start an ATS session thinking "Hey I wanna insult someone." It's a last resort "solution" towards overly closed-minded people that have nothing valuable to share.

So does this happen a lot for you?

You really find no other solution than insulting others because they don't share the same beliefs as you?

Is your consistent evaluation of others that they can only be close minded?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Oh its "peer reviewed"....that means it MUST BE credible! Hahaaa

Yes, actually it does mean it is credible since it has been verified by independent sources that analyze the data in relation to the hypothesis.

Honestly, I could not care less what Dr. William Combs believes as the bible speaks for itself! Yes there might be a few mistakes here and there but what your implying is total nonsense.

First it was error free, now it may 'be a few mistakes here and there'. Anyone who takes the Bible, particularly a much later version with known mistakes and mistranslations, literally, obviously has a biased and fundementalist viewpoint towards reality.

I rarely start an ATS session thinking "Hey I wanna insult someone." It's a last resort "solution" towards overly closed-minded people that have nothing valuable to share.

It should not be a resort at all on this forum, learn how to debate the topic and leave the ad hominem attacks for your other personal interactions.







[edit on 8-12-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by Saurus


The keywords are "how can you be sure".

I don't feel like writing a 10 page essay to explain my reasoning to you.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

You don't need to try to make them accept, it will never happen, they have their dogma that they do not admit to. What you can do is sustain your point of view for people that like to read about this, people that get confused , that don't know alot so they believe them. Information is so important this days, it's important that information has two sides of view so people can make out of it all and decide what is the truth
As regarding masons they would never admit to anything even if it's "right there in front of them" so don't waste your time trying to make them see it your way. Information posted on this bord is for general public, it's anty propaganda spill. Efficency has to do with convincing the public not them.

reply to post by pepsi78


you are correct. All masons act this way. They do it because they are all trained by Jewish people. Since all jewish people control all the money, they have that power. They try not to teach any black people because all black people wouldn't understand. And don't even get me started on all the Italian people.

Please stop and think a bit before you hit the magic button. Masons are just people. Some are smart, some are dumb, some are black, and some are white. All believe in a supream creator. Stereotypes are for people who are too stupid to be able to discern differences. Don't be that guy.