Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

reply to post by dalan.


Your own words give this defense the lie.

I'm sorry, but you've tipped your hand.

It's not uncommon for sensitive types, who feel injured by 'the system' in some manner, to inwardly desire its destruction.

And it's not uncommon for that desire to manifest in a way that gets people hurt.

Simple truth.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by dalan.

 

You're the only one talking about Alex Jones.

None of us critics give a flip about what he said. You guys are the same as his followers - cultists, with marginally different agendas.

This is a classic straw man fallacy, and I am calling you on it.

Back to the topic, shall we?

Ok, it was a straw man argument and I apologize.

that guy mentioned Alex Jones and I was just letting him know what I saw on his website.

I don't get it, one second you are nice, the next you are attacking me in some way?

I am going to do my research, I will find links for research that will support Venus Project claims, just give me time.

Originally posted by FIFIGI
... is a lie - no references provided

Finish reading the first page of the thread, or the actual websites.

... computers manging (not controling) resources, because humans are really bad at it - they try to accumulate as much as possible, so they can sell them to others for higher price

So when the machines prevent us from accumulating or consuming "too much", how isnt that control??

... selfish is now - evert activity in the world is self centres - how can I benefit from this or that.

Indeed. So how is a movement motivated by the desire to be better, smarter and longer living than others not selfish to the extreme?

money has no meaning if eveything is provided and people are self-sufficient

Do you know ANYTHING about economics? "Provided" by what, whom? The machines? Whose going to build them for free in teh effort for the transition.

If everyone is educated then then control is NOT necessary - control we see right now - you have no choice, but to eat GM food, which is not even labeled in US.

You think people arent going to be laying around half the day having all kind of sex, with all their free time the robots provide??

8. The global government run by a global 'god-on-earth' AGI computer network to replace all world religions.

Global government is a lie - it is management of resources.

Far beyond that, and control of resources IS government.

Everyone can keep their religion.

Watch ther first Zeitgeist: Peter's cult are the most intolerant of religion possilbe.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by dalan.

 

Your own words give this defense the lie.

I'm sorry, but you've tipped your hand.

It's not uncommon for sensitive types, who feel injured by 'the system' in some manner, to inwardly desire its destruction.

And it's not uncommon for that desire to manifest in a way that gets people hurt.

Simple truth.

Also an assumption on my character, you accused me of a straw man argument, so how about your ad hominem attack?

I have no desire to destroy anything.

Pop music maybe...

I personally think the " venus project" is an awesome idea(and no im not a lazy person,I work 7/12s all the time).Although I dont think your gonna have to worry about it.It seems it would be nearly impossible to pull off.99.99999 % of the population has no idea that the idea of it even exist.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys
reply to post by TrueTruth

 

For the record I do not follow anyones ideologies. Its not like I have a direct plan of action of what we should all do, what im implying is we should just evolve, let things go where they take us, if we turn out to be a technologically rich species then so be it, dont let fear of the NWO hinder our growth as a species. Tbh Im not part of the zeitgeist movement in any way, im not a member of the venus project or anything like that, I just see interesting ideas here and there. And dont you think you're being a bit over reactive by saying I call people names who disagree with my way of thinking? then you call me lame? I just said Alex Jones was being paranoid with Peter Josephs ideas. Did you hear his interview? You seem to have jumped to a series of irrational conclusions based on my single post.

"This is the same paranoid rantings you here from the likes of Alex Jones"

That's insulting people. Once you insult people, you open the door to being insulted. Sorry.

My conclusions about what you said are based on the fact that you said it.

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

 

2. AI Automatons replacing humans as workers.

Jobs are already outsourced to machines.

Work itself is the hidden mechanism by which the NWO maintains its power. They prevent even more jobs to be outsourced to machines because people need to work to get food.

Need--->Work--->Money-->Solution

This is the chain of events that solves every problem in todays NWO society. Zeigeist is an attempt to end the charade of work and money and connect ourselves to the solution to our problems. We don't need politicians, businessmen and celebrities to be the middlemen in the solution of our problems. Zeitgeist tries to show the power inside every person and that work and money are NWO tactics to convinces us that we need them to solve our problems for us.

The OP said himself that he didn't study much into it. Well OP get your facts straight before you put out lies and fear. Joseph and Jacque Fresco have done the research and they're trying to gather momentum for a society that serves human beings, not economic, religious and political institutions.

Besides how happy are most people? Not very. I believe that we should take all alternative societies into consideration since the society we're pushing around the globe leaves people hopeless, confused and angry. If you're scared to take alternative societies seriously then I think you're way too deep in fear based, forced labor society to even be worthwhile to the movement. Please watch Zeitgeist Addendum and then post your topic about it.

What about transition??

Explain to me the transition! My argument has been it would take tyranny just to maintain it. How do you transition without dictatorial tyranny? How many decades would it take. What suffering is this goal worth to get there? Has anyone actually thought this experiment all the way thru?

Talking about ideal fantasies is fun and dandy, but when its time to turn ideas into real world policies much becomes futile without widescale human suffering (i.e. policies suggests by global warming alarmists).

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by dalan.


You DID make a straw man attack. Google it, and then look at what you did. In layman's terms, you are putting words in people's mouths, because what you pretend they said is easier for you to attack then what they actually said.

And I stand by my assessment of the ZM followers, and you. I think you harbor great anger, but you don't admit it even to yourself. Sorry if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am, and I think this stuff is dangerous, so I call it out.

And technically, this does constitute an ad hominem attack. If I point out to a friend that he's letting his anger control his thinking, that's not attacking him. It's just telling him to be careful. But if he were trying to get others to join him, I'd be a little more forceful in my expression of it.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by dalan.

 

You DID make a straw man attack. Google it, and then look at what you did. In layman's terms, you are putting words in people's mouths, because what you pretend they said is easier for you to attack then what they actually said.

And I stand by my assessment of the ZM followers, and you. I think you harbor great anger, but you don't admit it even to yourself. Sorry if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am, and I think this stuff is dangerous, so I call it out.

And technically, this does constitute an ad hominem attack. If I point out to a friend that he's letting his anger control his thinking, that's not attacking him. It's just telling him to be careful. But if he were trying to get others to join him, I'd be a little more forceful in my expression of it.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Its no problem man, but I am honestly not angry though.

When I said "sensitive" i meant that I have a hard time stomaching horror movies, or violence, or WWII history lessons about the Third Reich. Crushing people with anything is the last thing I want.

I am not a cult member either, I have no leader, I have people that I work with but cooperation is a part of life.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by hermantinkly


My god. How do people like this manage to navigate through life and stay alive? Do you seriously believe everything you're typing? You're on a whole different level of crazy, guy. I would love to meet you and get you on tape just for the comedic value you offer.

What part of that outline do you have problems with, ie accuracy? The fact is millions of people follow this cult movement and its time they come back down to the reality of what it actually is and its implications when its time to implement it.

I agree with hermantinkly. Your crazy IgnoranceIsntBlisss! I'm outta here so don't even hassle with a reply.

Love & PEACE

Omni

It certainly seems like the majority of anti-Zeitgeist people do not believe that people can change for the better. Anything that changes society is inevitably going to be worse. I think these people are hopeless, misled and the ideal NWO citizen. They analyze ideas from the capitalist, pro labor, pro religion, pro leadership mentality that is consuming the planet. They repeat and perpetuate NWO principles like fear and closed mindedness. They believe human beings are naturally evil and violent.

On the flip side, Zeitgeist believers (or at least people who give it a chance) believe in people, not leaders, not economic institutions, not religious garbage. We see the non believers, not as stupid or angry, but misled and purposely misinformed. The goal of the NWO is to separate yourself from your power to change our life. Some believe believe they are incapable of improving themselves and their society. I think thats very sad. I don't want to see humanity defeat themselves simply because we're told by our leaders that we need their leadership. This is a lie. We do not need any leaders because people are naturally good, cooperative and want to help each other.

Replacing workers with machines is very scary to people because people need jobs to eat. We must work, then we get money then we can eat. To replace your job with a machine is to be denied access to life's necessities. This is not the machine's fault, this is not your fault. This is the fault of a society that bases sustenance and survival on work and subservience. We are all slaves because we must work to repay the debts of the body -food, water and shelter. This type of society creates a fertile soil for all types of abuses by those that hoard the resources. Scarcity is maintained by resource hoarding leaders. For example, America pays farmers not work. They're called subsidies. If our farmers produced the abundance that we are capable of they'd price themselves out of business. Technology has actually outgrown the need for capitalist economy. Yet we "correct" this deficiency by maintaining artificial scarcity. By hoarding resources the leaders reward good actions (working for food) and punish bad actions (not working and being exposed to crime, poverty and drugs) To remove jobs is to remove the levers of control that resource hoarders have used since the dawn of agriculture.

All political movements still base themselves on money, hierarchy and labor. Thats why all revolutions fail. They want to tinker with these three elements and think they can find the magical combination that solves all of humanity's problems. Actually the problem is these three elements. If they exist in a part of anyones political or economic platform then dominance and slavery will inevitably follow. We need a society that works for the people, not for the institutions.

Socialism is not a solution. Its value is only, well, in its values. Cooperation, sharing and community are far better values than selfishness, dominance and competition. In practice soclialism is simply an excuse for political fascism, the same way capitalism is an excuse for economic fascism. In socliasm the government controls business. In capitalism business controls the government.

The problems of society cannot be solved by another revolution that tries to rearrange our relationship to the powerful. We need to rid ourselves of the powerful all togehter. Zeitgeist, to me, is an attempt to show that this type of radical change is possible. Its not perfect. But you can't have a totally perfect, prepackaged social philosophy. There are still going to be problems. But we can introduce a society that formulates itself for the people and which allows individuals to truly change society for their needs.

I don't want anti Zeitgeisters to think I was making generalizations about them. Some are very educated. Some are very fearful. Some are both. If Zeitgeist teaches anything its that its ok to have individual thoughts.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by Trueman

 

Yup.

Try asking them for the hard data to support any of their claims, and prepare to be overwhelmed by the deafening silence.

They're charlatans. They are about as concerned for your future as Pat Robertson.

I'm confused as to what sort of data people are looking for? Do we need proof that the money system, labor system and political system are unsustainable and anti-human? Do we need scientific proof before we believe change is possible? How can we give hard facts when the society in question has never been tried before? I think the proof is in the fact that society today...sucks. Its not for people anymore. Its to perpetuate the institutions that run society. So yea, not sure what kind of data you're looking for.

Also, when asked is there anything 'we' could do to stop the NWO, his response is always no!

To me it sounds like his is a shill...mixing some truth without a lot of lies. His agenda is one with the NWO...I find it hard to believe anyhting he says anymore.

BEST THING WE SHOULD ALL DO IS MEDITATE TILL WE REALIZE OUR OWN ENLIGHNMENT...GODHOOD.

Originally posted by Hemlocks
Also, when asked is there anything 'we' could do to stop the NWO, his response is always no!

Who?? If you're suggesting that's my view, QUOTE ME! It's up to how big of sheep people are in the coming years. Normally it doesnt look so good, but some recent events have shown there might be a chance.

I fail to see how Transhumanism is either selfish or evil. I've tried thinking about it from as many perspectives as possible, and the only persepctive I can come from in order to object to Transhumanism is one of pure fear.

As we progress forward, there are bound to be pockets of regressors and fearful objectors. Science has been dogged by this problem for a very, very long time. Just think about poor old Copernicus.

Originally posted by InfiniteOmnipresence

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by hermantinkly
My god. How do people like this manage to navigate through life and stay alive? Do you seriously believe everything you're typing? You're on a whole different level of crazy, guy. I would love to meet you and get you on tape just for the comedic value you offer.

What part of that outline do you have problems with, ie accuracy? The fact is millions of people follow this cult movement and its time they come back down to the reality of what it actually is and its implications when its time to implement it.

I agree with hermantinkly. Your crazy IgnoranceIsntBlisss! I'm outta here so don't even hassle with a reply.

Well, looking at my own words in that paragraph, the fact is that millions entertain the idea, but how many are hopeless followers of it is unknown. But apparently they have over 250,000 members.

But my list in the OP is accurate. Read the website.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
I fail to see how Transhumanism is either selfish or evil. I've tried thinking about it from as many perspectives as possible, and the only persepctive I can come from in order to object to Transhumanism is one of pure fear.

The idea that peopele will be able to use technology to augment their abilities over others, thus making them obsolete in the school / workplace, and the fact that not everyone will be able to afford it (especially not after the economic meltdown and plundering of the international economies) makes it the ultimate in selfishness to obsess over it (beyond better than others).

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by Trueman

 

Yup.

Try asking them for the hard data to support any of their claims, and prepare to be overwhelmed by the deafening silence.

They're charlatans. They are about as concerned for your future as Pat Robertson.

I'm confused as to what sort of data people are looking for? Do we need proof that the money system, labor system and political system are unsustainable and anti-human? Do we need scientific proof before we believe change is possible? How can we give hard facts when the society in question has never been tried before? I think the proof is in the fact that society today...sucks. Its not for people anymore. Its to perpetuate the institutions that run society. So yea, not sure what kind of data you're looking for.

I'm talking about:

The data to support the theory of "scarcity" as being responsible for the human behaviors they claim it is. I've seen nothing in the literature of behaviorism to substantiate this belief.

Or data supporting the idea that robots will do all over our jobs for us. There are many, many things that can not and should not ever be automated. See my previous post on examples.

Or data on natural resources that proves JF's claim that we can have abundance for all. Does JF really believe that there's no such thing as possible resource depletion? I want his precise calculation supporting this outlandish claim.


that kinda stuff.




[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

reply to post by dalan.


I am responding to your tone.

Like I said - you insulted. See the post where I said how.

I'll drop it though if you can too.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]