77 = No Hijack, Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

Don't want to believe it? True. No one wants to believe that their own government was involved in the extinction of thousands of lives. DO you?
Why?
Why believe that? Because there are too many people who hated the Bush administration that would prefer he was involved for emotional reasons.
Where is the nul hypothesis and testing? Just repeat a loaded question often enought and forcefully enough and it becomes truth rather than an unevidenced question.
I have some questions and please excuse me if I am behind the curve in this since I don't look in on a daily basis.
1. Did 77 crash into the pentigon?
2. If not then where did they get the flight recorder?
3. If they planted the flight recorder then where did it come from?
3. Was it planted at the pentigon or did our government invent the data?
4. If the black box itself is in question, why are truthers now using the data from this box to suport their claims?
5. If the government is involved with a cover-up then why are they providing this information that truthers can us against them?

Yes, I think it's good to ask questions.

But it begs the question I have always asked and never had a satisfactory answer to.
What happened to the flight?

My gut says they ditched it out over the ocean somewhere. If they had no qualms of killing thousands on the ground, the poor souls on board the planes never had a chance.

Originally posted by Tikiman
Don't want to believe it? True. No one wants to believe that their own government was involved in the extinction of thousands of lives. DO you?
Why?
Why believe that? Because there are too many people who hated the Bush administration that would prefer he was involved for emotional reasons.
Where is the nul hypothesis and testing? Just repeat a loaded question often enought and forcefully enough and it becomes truth rather than an unevidenced question.
I have some questions and please excuse me if I am behind the curve in this since I don't look in on a daily basis.
1. Did 77 crash into the pentigon?
2. If not then where did they get the flight recorder?
3. If they planted the flight recorder then where did it come from?
3. Was it planted at the pentigon or did our government invent the data?
4. If the black box itself is in question, why are truthers now using the data from this box to suport their claims?
5. If the government is involved with a cover-up then why are they providing this information that truthers can us against them?

Yes, I think it's good to ask questions.

Bush wasn't involved man. He was just the buffoon they put out in front.
Kind of like a modern day Claudius.

reply to post by Tikiman


1. Tell us why you think it did?
2. Recorders are a dime a dozen
3. No significant plane debris--- Recorder survives? Do the math.
4. Ever see dumbest criminals?
5 Ditto

Sound familiar to finding a perfect drivers licence from a supposed terrorist at the WTC?

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]

dp

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by fleabit
Flight attendants typically check in on pilots every 30 minutes or so, to make sure all is ok, and see if they need or want anything. Are we to believe that they made no checks at all?

You mght want to check the post on the Warren Decode thead. There are 42 hours of data and EVERY record of this parameter (one every 4 seconds) is CLOSED. Not even one OPEN value, even for the other 11 recorded flights, including the LA to DC flights. So, there is no evidence that this parameter was recorded at all and the default value of CLOSED is what we are seeing. Check with Warren and see if the raw value is 0. If so, then we are just seeing the default.

Originally posted by Angus123
But it begs the question I have always asked and never had a satisfactory answer to.
What happened to the flight?

My gut says they ditched it out over the ocean somewhere. If they had no qualms of killing thousands on the ground, the poor souls on board the planes never had a chance.

Are you familiar with Operation Northwoods?

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by Tikiman
Don't want to believe it? True. No one wants to believe that their own government was involved in the extinction of thousands of lives. DO you?
Why?
Why believe that? Because there are too many people who hated the Bush administration that would prefer he was involved for emotional reasons.
Where is the nul hypothesis and testing? Just repeat a loaded question often enought and forcefully enough and it becomes truth rather than an unevidenced question.
I have some questions and please excuse me if I am behind the curve in this since I don't look in on a daily basis.
1. Did 77 crash into the pentigon?
2. If not then where did they get the flight recorder?
3. If they planted the flight recorder then where did it come from?
3. Was it planted at the pentigon or did our government invent the data?
4. If the black box itself is in question, why are truthers now using the data from this box to suport their claims?
5. If the government is involved with a cover-up then why are they providing this information that truthers can us against them?

Yes, I think it's good to ask questions.

Bush wasn't involved man. He was just the buffoon they put out in front.
Kind of like a modern day Claudius.

Buffoon? Probably. He really wasn't very bright. Who are the "they" you are taking about?

Originally posted by abefrohman
Come on guys.

Everyone seems to agree that the plane didn't hit the Pentagon... and the Government is covering it up.

Yet somehow you all think it's reasonable to trust data released by the government from a data recorder from the plane?

If the data the govt. releases supporting the terrorist explanation is not valid, then the data they release supporting anything else is not valid.

I'll listen to anything in the way of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence that refutes the terrorist story... but when we start using information that was released by the same people who are lying to us just because it supports what we want to believe... that's when I get off the bus.

Look at it this way.

If it was a helicopter... the data is fake.
If it was a missile... the data is fake.
If the flight was unmanned... the data is fake.

Only if the flight was hijacked does it make any sense to trust any of this data, and it seems to me that nobody here thinks it was a hijacking.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by abefrohman]

What you have here imho is yet another case of an overlooked aspect in doctored and planted evidence, the real FDR of that flight could never be used no matter what happened, it would show at the very least that the alleged flight path and clipping of lamp posts, and being in the required position for the CCTV`s field of vision, the frame where the outrageously to small for a Boeing (released Pentagon video) is seen behind the heliport, was impossible.

Yet another small but highly significant point that was completely neglected.

All the planted evidence stinks of wtf!!! no way, including the alleged engine that fits into a waste bin over at the WTC, all the quickly put together paper trail found in the hire car etc, the soaked in jet fuel passport, the Bin Laden video, flight manuals in Arabic (martyrdom edition), P.C. Flight simulator software, receipts for box-cutter knives, over at Shanksville... The rusty engine part delicately placed in a digger bucket, the debris free lawns of the Pentagon just after impact then booooom!!! just in time for the MSM a delivery from Plane Crash Debris `R` Us do their thing, etc, etc .

Originally posted by 911files

Originally posted by fleabit
Flight attendants typically check in on pilots every 30 minutes or so, to make sure all is ok, and see if they need or want anything. Are we to believe that they made no checks at all?

You mght want to check the post on the Warren Decode thead. There are 42 hours of data and EVERY record of this parameter (one every 4 seconds) is CLOSED. Not even one OPEN value, even for the other 11 recorded flights, including the LA to DC flights. So, there is no evidence that this parameter was recorded at all and the default value of CLOSED is what we are seeing. Check with Warren and see if the raw value is 0. If so, then we are just seeing the default.

I don't know if I would understand the data unless it was compared to successful normal flights.
Are you saying something like that?
Bare in mind these flights even if they flew the path the OS would have you believe ----They never achieved cruising altitude and would have been a twisting bumpy ride. And a short enough flight that would not demand the door be opened for a nature call or fresh cup of coffee.
If it does show that the doors were never opened ---then no hijackers.

Originally posted by argentus
I understand why they can't reveal the name of their source, but the FDR data -- not the FD report -- should be an easy thing to post.

what source?

this info?

warren stutt and rob balsamo. names revealed.

the data?

foia.

all sources are known.

"However, why would the dastardly government allow release of information that would be directly in conflict with their findings?"

To give the impression that there was an actual Flight 77 which crashed into the Pentagon. Then they could catch the unsuspecting truthers in a trap by stating, wait a second, first you stated there was no Flight 77 and now you are arguing about the information on the flight data recorder which was allegedly recovered at the scene. Basically, it's an old back door trick which makes truthers confirm there was a Flight 77 by catching them in a contradiction.

They don't care about the flight data recorder readings, since that information can be argued back and forth until the end of time. In fact, the more conflicting information they release, the more people will haggle over it.

Any information released by the Government about that day is a load of horse manure, regardless if the information incriminates the Government or not.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by Angus123
But it begs the question I have always asked and never had a satisfactory answer to.
What happened to the flight?

My gut says they ditched it out over the ocean somewhere. If they had no qualms of killing thousands on the ground, the poor souls on board the planes never had a chance.

Are you familiar with Operation Northwoods?

Sorry to say I am aware of it. To his eternal credit, Kennedy wouldn't allow it.
Guess we know how that worked out for him!

Originally posted by Angus123
But it begs the question I have always asked and never had a satisfactory answer to.
What happened to the flight?

My gut says they ditched it out over the ocean somewhere. If they had no qualms of killing thousands on the ground, the poor souls on board the planes never had a chance.

Hm; to me that's almost like asking if Darwin was right. His theory had mistakes and later on many parts of the theory had been tested, corrected and elaboated on until the more accurate understanding we now have today. The official report of flight 77 is kind of the same thing with statement being corrected and evidence forthcoming as time goes by. So far as I could see on the official report of (I think) 2002 it appears that flight 77 flew into the pentigon. For right now I can see no logical reason to suspect the report.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Tikiman]

Originally posted by Tikiman

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by Tikiman
Don't want to believe it? True. No one wants to believe that their own government was involved in the extinction of thousands of lives. DO you?
Why?
Why believe that? Because there are too many people who hated the Bush administration that would prefer he was involved for emotional reasons.
Where is the nul hypothesis and testing? Just repeat a loaded question often enought and forcefully enough and it becomes truth rather than an unevidenced question.
I have some questions and please excuse me if I am behind the curve in this since I don't look in on a daily basis.
1. Did 77 crash into the pentigon?
2. If not then where did they get the flight recorder?
3. If they planted the flight recorder then where did it come from?
3. Was it planted at the pentigon or did our government invent the data?
4. If the black box itself is in question, why are truthers now using the data from this box to suport their claims?
5. If the government is involved with a cover-up then why are they providing this information that truthers can us against them?

Yes, I think it's good to ask questions.

Bush wasn't involved man. He was just the buffoon they put out in front.
Kind of like a modern day Claudius.

Buffoon? Probably. He really wasn't very bright. Who are the "they" you are taking about?

PNAC in general, Cheney in particular.

Originally posted by Tikiman

Bush wasn't involved man. He was just the buffoon they put out in front.
Kind of like a modern day Claudius.

Buffoon? Probably. He really wasn't very bright. Who are the "they" you are taking about?

I think the Bush is a moron approach does not fit in with his academical awards, nor the point he was a trained fighter pilot, just makes it easier for debunkers when Bush`s mistakes are picked up on, and put down to his supposed retardedness.

Airline Pilots and Flight Crew Members reading this will recognize my generic descriptions to maintain airline security.
FACT: The 2001 Cockpit doors were like hotel room doors, when closed; THEY LOCK. The doors were never left open.

If a Flight Attendant was murdered in the front of the airplane, near the cockpit door, the pilots would hear loud screams from fellow crew members and the passengers. The Pilots would be alerted by the violent noises on the other side of the cockpit door.

FACT: The 2001 Cockpit doors contained peep holes, just like hotel room doors.
One Pilot looking through the peep hole could easily observe the violence, and alert the other Pilot who has radio access to FAA Controllers.

FACT: The cockpit contains a "jump seat." The jump seat is an extra seat in the cockpit, used; 1. by the FAA to check/observe pilot performance; 2. for airline pilot training; 3. to reposition non flying pilots to their destinations. THIS ADDITIONAL PERSON IS SITTING IN THE COCKPIT; WITH ACCESS TO THE COCKPIT DOOR.

The person riding in the jump seat, may not have been recorded on the Aircraft Passenger Manifest. If this person identified himself as a Pilot; the Captain flying the airplane would check his pilot credentials. Government/FAA credentials are inconsistent and are more difficult to verify.

www.jtalon.tv...

I still find it hard to believe that 4 airlines were taking over and the pilots had no time to give a warning.

Did all 4 flights leave the door open?

Did terrorist ram all 4 doors?

Did pilots from all 4 flights walk out to see what was going on allowing terrorist to get in?

Suspicious minds.....

Originally posted by Seventh
Originally posted by Tikiman

Bush wasn't involved man. He was just the buffoon they put out in front.
Kind of like a modern day Claudius.

Buffoon? Probably. He really wasn't very bright. Who are the "they" you are taking about?

I think the Bush is a moron approach does not fit in with his academical awards, nor the point he was a trained fighter pilot, just makes it easier for debunkers when Bush`s mistakes are picked up on, and put down to his supposed retardedness.

Dude, he was an average to below average student that slid by on "gentleman's C's" as even he himself put it. I don't recall ever hearing about his achieving any academic awards.

And like everything else in his life, he walked away from being a fighter pilot when he became bored of it and got away with it thanks to his father's connections.
If I went AWOL like that I'd have been breaking rocks in Leavenworth for 20 years.

I have been telling everyone that 911 was a false flag operation yet so many people chose to ignore me because they can’t stand the thought that our government would kill their own people to wage two illegal wars and profit for the greedy oil barons in our government.

We need to email this information to ever News outlet across the globe this should prove "no plane crashed into the Pentagon" as I always have thought. We already have the proof that Ted Olsen lied about his wife Barbra Olsen calling him from the plane. This should be proof enough that FBI staged all the wreckage debris from some bone yard. It proves the FBI was helping the real criminals pulling off this false flag. People this is treason and these people need to be arrested and charged. This should send a shockwaves on all of the government’s evidence that surrounds 911.

If all of this evidences is continued to be ignored then, rest assure the government will pull off another false flag operation again and again because “We The People” are saying YES IT IS OK, and we will NOT hold anyone accountable.

My own personal opinion is that highjackers did run the airplanes into these sites, but in the same breath i know that a real Illuminati excists and i saw a interview with someone saying they talked to a rothchild or rockerfeller (can't remember which) and they told him that something big was gonna happen like two days before 911, so my gut tells me the Illuminati were involved with this somehow.