77 = No Hijack, Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

reply to post by wholetruth

Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

Wouldn't that be unusual even for a flight that wasn't hijacked?

reply to post by flylead

How does this explain where flight 77 went or is ???

It doesn't. It simply suggests that the flight might not have been physically hijacked. If you assume that it did crash into the pentagon, then the obvious conclusion would be that it was "electronically" hijacked, and flown in via remote control. If you assume it did not crash into the pentagon, it begs the question you ask: what happened to it?

I think the point here is to examine the evidence and conclude what can rasonably be concluded, not to make assumptions, and not to dismiss evidence simply because it implies questions we don't have answers to.

We have to assume flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon due to the lack of any physical evidence at the scene.
This is why Im sceptical about the claim the door was closed throughout the flight..
Lets not be naive here......we all know flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. Just two days ago we were told a helicopter may be involved.
This is why Im confused.

Flight Deck Recorders were only good for 30 minutes back in 2001, now they're good for 2 hours.

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by scraze
[..] So we actually need to know how the electronics are integrated; is there a central logging device that has access to all sensors? Does it poll (periodically inquire) the state of the sensors, and logs its results? Or is there a callback mechanism in such a way that a sensor can make an entry in a log itself?

These are the kind of details we need to get into. The existence of a sensor itself is but a hint in the direction of the answer.

The DFDR (digital flight data recorder sequentially polls and records the data from each sensor monitoring a parameter. The door sensor which reports the status of the door is t the bottom of the door, and is not tied to the button which opens it or the cickpit door indicator ligjht. The sensor doesn't trigger a report like some, like the engine fire sensor, do The DFDR records status as open or closed when polled. A simple 0 or 1, depending on status. If the DFDR data is correct, the cockpit door was either closed or open for less than 4 seconds, for the total duration of the flight.

[..]

Thanks a bunch - that's pretty much all the information we need. It would be great if you could provide a link or other reference to your source, but even without that the information seems reliable enough.

Now I wonder, instead of assuming implausiblity - how feasible is it to open and close the door within 4 seconds? Without predicting the upcoming FDR polls, it would be hard to open the door right after a poll, so the window of time would get even smaller. Unless the hijackers intended the logs to report a closed door, they would have to have had a large amount of luck to open and close the door just in time.. I guess. I have to admit that I'm not familiar with flight deck doors at all - are they heavy, do they open automatically, is there a displacement of air that prevents rapid closing - so again, maybe one of our professional masters of the air could answer this? I admit that the chances are very very slim, but it's better to eradicate all doubt than to keep assumptions in my booklet.

Thanks again to 4nsicphd!

Awesome find OP, S&F for you .

I took the liberty of breaking down the intricacy of how the FDR records data when the door is opened........

Data Frame Layout (0=CLOSED, 1=OPEN)

The data shows 0 for the whole flight.

I think they will state that it must have been a malfunction of the door processor, as it would be absurd not to believe the pilots flew this into the Pentagon. Although we haven't really seen any proof of the plane in any video. Even if they come up with an excuse, it's obvious that the official version of events that day need to have another look. There still remains too many unanswered questions and an effort to not answer those questions. I do not trust people who won't answer a question.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by wholetruth

 

Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

Wouldn't that be unusual even for a flight that wasn't hijacked?

Maybe they somehow were alerted that terrorists were aboard the plane and kept the doors closed at all times? I'm just speculating here.

Here is another thought...

shouldn't the blackbox indicate something at the point the entire plane disinegrated? Only the blackbox survived the impact and the people inside the building. But the entire plane vaporized.

So shouldn't the black box show a disconnection from all of these components since it survived?

reply to post by technical difficulties

Maybe they somehow were alerted that terrorists were
aboard the plane and kept the doors closed

...maybe. Or perhaps they were unconscious. Or perhaps the door opening mechanism was electronically disabled. Or perhaps it was an unmanned flight.

This is great proof, however it confuses me.

• Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon, anything more intelligent than a monkey knows this.

• This proves that the door didn't open at all. So in order for this to happen the official story is going to say something like the censors jammed. (Just like all the cameras on 9-11 too.

• Since a missile hit the pentagon, I'm wondering if they landed 77 electronically (see unmanned landing testings before 9-11) and planted the box in the debris later?

More interesting..

Those passengers on flight 77 could still be alive. I doubt our government has that kind of mercy however. Imagine if one escaped.

I think it is strange that the doors were closed the entire flight. Not only becuase the hijackers couldn't have gone in, but normally you see flight attendents go in and talk to the captain and co-pilot. I never know what about, mayb just to see if they need anything or are doing ok. I don't fly that often, maybe a few times a year. I know just last week flying from LA to Houston the flight attendents went in twice. And I've seen it happen other times when I could afford to sit in first class.

I am not sure if this question has been fully answered. I kinda thought it was but I'm still unsure. Someone said there is a montior on the door to record the condition of the door and a button on the door that allows the door to be opened.

If they hijackers forced the door open without pressing the button to open the doors as normal, would this send data as the door being opened? Or just state the condition of the door?

I also want to state that I dont believe a plane hit the pentagon. Maybe a missile disguised as a plane or any number of things. But if flight 77 hit the pentagon they would have shown us the footage as undeniable proof.

I think this maybe a small hole in their official story. Was any of the flight deck door data in the 911 commission report? Anyway, small holes can be fixed if you get them in time. Watch for a quick statement disreguarding this data.




[edit on 27-11-2009 by tooo many pills]

[edit on 27-11-2009 by tooo many pills]

Originally posted by The_Zomar
This is great proof, however it confuses me.

• Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon, anything more intelligent than a monkey knows this.

• This proves that the door didn't open at all. So in order for this to happen the official story is going to say something like the censors jammed. (Just like all the cameras on 9-11 too.

• Since a missile hit the pentagon, I'm wondering if they landed 77 electronically (see unmanned landing testings before 9-11) and planted the box in the debris later?

More interesting..

Those passengers on flight 77 could still be alive. I doubt our government has that kind of mercy however. Imagine if one escaped.

1) agreed.

2) correct. the plane people witnessed approach the pentagon on 9/11 wasn't hijacked. this explains why it didn't crash.

3a. there is no evidence anywhere of a missile hitting the pentagon.
3b. no proof of any electronic hijacks on 9/11. most likely they had an experienced pilot fly the plane and not crash it. simple as that.
3c. since the plane didn't crash the only way a black box from it could ever be recovered from the scene is if the fbi put it there.

Well this seems like a pretty huge thing to me, if this is the DFDR data that the government released with the FOIA request and it shows that the flight deck door was never opened...than the flight deck door was never opened.

I really hope that the pilots and whoever else is with the pilots for 911 truth get this properly verified or whatever and into the MSM because it seems to me that it pretty much blows the lid right off of any hijacking scenario.

is there any info on what happened to the pilots? are there actual accounts of the pilots even being killed or anything like that? could the pilots not have been in on the plot, or a co-pilot who was able to enter the cockpit before the flight even took place, hence before the flight recorder would have logged the door sensor?
without actual knowledge of what happened with the pilots we cant really say the plane wasnt hijacked.

Come on guys.

Everyone seems to agree that the plane didn't hit the Pentagon... and the Government is covering it up.

Yet somehow you all think it's reasonable to trust data released by the government from a data recorder from the plane?

If the data the govt. releases supporting the terrorist explanation is not valid, then the data they release supporting anything else is not valid.

I'll listen to anything in the way of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence that refutes the terrorist story... but when we start using information that was released by the same people who are lying to us just because it supports what we want to believe... that's when I get off the bus.

Look at it this way.

If it was a helicopter... the data is fake.
If it was a missile... the data is fake.
If the flight was unmanned... the data is fake.

Only if the flight was hijacked does it make any sense to trust any of this data, and it seems to me that nobody here thinks it was a hijacking.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by abefrohman]

reply to post by abefrohman


Using their information is the best way to prove that their information doesn't amount to their official version of the events. They can't deny their own evidence because when they ignore it, it makes people question why they ignore the evidence. That builds momentum over time and certainly we are reaching a tipping point.

right..but when they're own data proves their own version is wrong..than it needs to be thrown in their faces.

edit: expostfacto said that better than i did :p lol

[edit on 11/27/2009 by toepick]

So now the question is when was the door actually opened. If we find this out we can find out where the passengers were transferred to 93 before they arrived at Cleveland Airport.

Look it up and you will find that 93 was downed in Cleveland for a bomb threat that day and more passengers were offloaded than there were aboard on it earlier.

[edit on 11/27/2009 by nightmarehalo]

Question: Did the people who analyzed the flight data recorder information for the official reports cover this? If so, what did they say? If not, why not?