Seeking the advice and input of ATS members on an important issue...

id like to say after posting my previous post i went back and quickly scanned a few posts

it seems other people have brought up similar points as to ats censorship

and i see ats owners are defending themselves in the discussion by claiming things are different then the way some people are making them out to be


you claim no reasoning can change the persons mind, thats because there is no reasoning that makes sense

there is no reasoning that makes sense to stifle the sharing of information that could potentially lead to cures or treatments of severe illness and disease

i had a father who just died of small cell lung cancer, i was in very close working with the oncologists to help my father, the marijuana subject was something that was discussed very much

oncologists know that there is not only incredible potential for medical marijuana to improve life in cancer patients period, it can also have incredibly helpful effects to combat the negative effects of chemo

on top of that with further research and development the oncologists my family was working with fully believe with the proper research and development we can find a cure for cancer and other medical issues

the only way that can be done is by full medicalization

that is something that will never take place unless the public are allowed to have a forum to discuss such a thing

by not allowing us to discuss such things maturely there is no reasoning to make it anything else but censorship, no matter what the reason behind the censorship is

this site claims to deny ignorance

it is simply extremely ignorant to try to call the denial and suppression of this subject anything but censorship

reply to post by Dramey


Are people still up in arms over the whole no drug policy?

My god, there are millions of other websites you can visit to discuss, talk about and present information about that subject.

We tried here, we really did, remember last year?

It didn't go so well, not because of the owners or the mods, but because the MEMBERSHIP could not follow the simple rules that we put in place.

Hell the rules were even made up BY the membrship or the DISC committee and still we failed to maintain them.

And I am sure it was tried before that, and SO's reasoning for not allowing the drug talk in all honesty is correct. There's no need for ATS to divulge in that topic when we have SOOOO many others to talk about.

So really, the argument is moot, I doubt we will ever get back the narcotics board and if we do it should only be for members who KNOW the rules and will FOLLOW Them.

You think a lot of people get banned now, image having the Narcotics forum and all of these kids coming and and discussion their "illusion" filled weekends.

I dont' want this website to be associated with that kind of discussion, I have some quams with ATS, but the subject about censorship has nothing to do with what Bill and the staff are trying to do here.

You are all just attacking anything you can to make a point.

~Keeper

one last post to ask that before any mods decide to delete or "censor" my posts, please allow the site owners to at least take the 5 minutes to read the posts

i am not trying to damage ats, i am not trying to go against the rules, i am trying to put out information to prevent the suffering of others, i watched my father die

one of the reasons for that was because of the legality of the substance at hand

i was personally told by medical professionals, mainly oncologists, that marijuana would have prolonged my fathers life, and probably have given him a better quality of life, just with the way we use the substance now

by continuing to censor this information there are millions of people around the world on chemotherapy and fighting other diseases that are needlessly suffering because of the censorship of this substance and topic


no matter what your reasons may be in censoring this topic, at least take the previous information into consideration

just by allowing the mature discussion of this substance, this site has the ability to improve the quality of life in many sufferers around the world and potentially save lives

reply to post by tothetenthpower




NO

simply no this is not about the no drugs policy

this is about much more then that and if you bothered to read my posts with a open mind you would realize this

this is not about a drug

this is about a medicine

a medical professionals accepted medicine that is stuck in limbo because of legal reasons and age old false propaganda

i am not here advocating meth, crack, heroin, lsd, shroomz

or anything of the like

what i am saying is we should have open discussion on a substance the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION has said they will no longer pursue charges against


here on ats are we allowed to talk about high blood pressure medicine? yes

are we allowed to talk about hydrocodone? yes

are we allowed to discuss ritalin and add? yes


the list goes on with all the medical things we can discuss


why not this substance?

reply to post by Dramey


Because people can't keep their personnal use stories to themselves, it's as simple as that.

Our membership, as mature as you'd like to think is, really isn't.

Were all just anonymous people on the internet.

And I understand where you are coming from, I really do, my husband is a doctor and we have the discussion all the time.

But again, you speak as if ATS is only place in the world where we could talk about this but don't get the chance to. Like if it's not on ATS then it doesn't exist or is hurting people.

Google Medical Marijuana and you will get millions of hits from websites where you can go and talk about this issue right now.

The owners of a privately run business have the right to say no to whatever they want, truly they were nice enough to try it out and on several occasions WE the membership failed miserably.

It's our fault we can't talk about these things, not theirs.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


you discuss what we tried last year

yea i was here for that and read every post in that forum

all because a couple of ignorant children made stupid statements we are all forced to be censored

you say we tried it?

how long was the forum actually up for?

was it actually up for more then 24 hours

i know it damn well wasnt more then 72 hours

you talk about banning people

so what? ban them

if they act ignorant or talk about immature things, ban em, ban the ip address, ban everything you want

this isnt about narcotics that im speaking of

this is about something that scientifically is less dangerous the nicotine alcohol and caffeine

on top of that, this substance actually has true medical value

scientifically true accepted medical value

reply to post by Dramey


Again I agree, and it was about 4 days and like 40 infractions later, but that's not the point.

What you are talking about MOST EVERYBODY knows, it's not some huge secret, again the web is FULL of these websites, why is it so important that ATS be all mainstream?

It's a choice my the staff which was pretty much made FOR them by the membership.

It's unfortunate, and I truly whish we could talk about it in here, there are many a great threads I would create, I am sure you read the one I did when the Narcotics board was open.

But alas, that is not the case. I'm not gonna cry over spilled milk, there are more important issues at hand than pot.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Dramey

 

Because people can't keep their personnal use stories to themselves, it's as simple as that.

Our membership, as mature as you'd like to think is, really isn't.

Were all just anonymous people on the internet.

And I understand where you are coming from, I really do, my husband is a doctor and we have the discussion all the time.

But again, you speak as if ATS is only place in the world where we could talk about this but don't get the chance to. Like if it's not on ATS then it doesn't exist or is hurting people.

Google Medical Marijuana and you will get millions of hits from websites where you can go and talk about this issue right now.

The owners of a privately run business have the right to say no to whatever they want, truly they were nice enough to try it out and on several occasions WE the membership failed miserably.

It's our fault we can't talk about these things, not theirs.

~Keeper

everything you are saying is advocating censorship based on the faults of a few

you are advocating censorship no matter how you word it

you say its our fault?

like i said, ban the fools

do we not allow 911 to be discussed because of all the ignorant childish people who post in those forums?

do we not all religious discussion even though there are people bashing each others religion on a daily basis?

do we not allow discussion of aliens because of the heated things said between the truthers and debunkers?

no, so why cant we treat this serious medical topic the same way

when people do the wrong thing, punish them for it


whats happening now, is the same thing everyone here on ats is complaining about the police doing

its all about pre-crime

you are simply advocating nothing else but enforcement of pre crime tactics to stifle any "potential" crimes being committed by the foolish


yet here we are in a thread, this thread is ats asking whether or not we should make a petition to stop the censorship of the internet, yet we cant even stop censorship on this site of mature discussion, because a couple kids talk about how high they got

But alas, that is not the case. I'm not gonna cry over spilled milk, there are more important issues at hand than pot.

~Keeper

Not to derail the thread but Im sure if you where told you werent allowed to take in another naturally grown substance which has massive benefits to your health (like wheat or barly). Then maybe you would feel different.

The reality is the board owners do not want drug related topics on this site, most likely due to advertising revenue concerns given that simon has admitted to use in the past (on this site), even though it does seem Bill genuinly hates the topic.

reply to post by gYvMessanger


Actually, my husband has cancer and had it prescribed to himself, and it doesn't need to happen to me for me to be mad about it.

Look i'm mad as hell at the way the war on drugs has effected our lives and how stupid it is to have this particular one illegalized when it does offer SOOOO many benefits health wise and leisure wise.

But that's not the point, the point is exactly what you said they made a choice to not want it as part of the ATS name. I for one respect that.

Perhaps the discussion needs to be opened once again, but I doubt that will happen.

User Generated Content means that if anything was ever done that made this topic a no no, it was by us, not them.

~Keeper

i give my word i will no longer clog this thread with this discussion out of respect to the owners and mods

all i ask is that you consider this situation very closely and reverently with a open mind

i have not condoned anything harmful here, my only wish is to do good, my intentions are pure

to only clarify, my dad may still have died with or without medical marijuana as it is today

the facts we know is that his quality of life on chemotherapy and radiation would have been improved significantly

the cancer would have progressed slower

with future research and development the possibility is reasonably there to create a cure from one of the many chemicals found in the substance


even without a cure, to even be able to give these people a better quality of life at the end; personally i think spending the time to ban a few fools is quite worth what we gain by helping others

Originally posted by Dramey

yet here we are in a thread, this thread is ats asking whether or not we should make a petition to stop the censorship of the internet, yet we cant even stop censorship on this site of mature discussion, because a couple kids talk about how high they got

Actually that's not exactly correct ...

The proposed legislation would choke off the only viable source of necessary income for a great percentage of small to medium independent websites. The end result of which would be the end of those sites, including those which embrace the topic you wish to discuss here. This is not censorship per se, though CT 101 would dictate that that is indeed the ambition.

I know it may seem to you like it is splitting hairs but it really isn't. Every website has the right and the responsibility to manage its content. You may call that censorship if you so wish, but there is a difference between this and opposing a measure that if implemented, would make such content choices moot as the sites would simply fold. Leaving the net and the flow of information within easy control of those few who have the means to manipulate it.

It is intellectually convenient/lazy to throw everything under the "censorship" umbrella ... but the two things you are equating are simply not the same thing. One is a person having a choice about who he lets into his house, the other takes his house away.

I understand your not one of the people who is against an honest intellectual discussion on the subject.

I'm merely pointing out that people shouldnt follow leaders blindly just because they happen to be 'the right leaders'.

Back on topic I can't believe how many are blindly supporting the board owners on this matter, given the disgusting proliferation of third party advertising making the net a terribly unsafe place to surf, including here (though I appreciate the steps board management are taking to ensure it doesnt happen and is dealt with swiftly when it does).

SD thats not true, its just how its being spun. We don't need a million crappy websites littered with keywords and search engine enhancing crap so you come onto a page filled with rubbish and adverts. There are various business methods which are viable to enable an online presence, you do not HAVE to resort to third party advertising houses as they exist today.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by gYvMessanger]

I have to agree with the people who have posted that it is hypocritical for ATS to now want to organize a petition because their bottom line is in jeapordy.

ATS allows talk about violence and war, which is the worst thing on earth, but we cannot discuss drugs or say curse words? Where is the logic?

Quite frankly, why anyone would think censorship does not happen on ATS is beyond me. It most certainly does. The drug topic is a prime example. And ownership is quite within their rights to do so. They just don't like being associated with the word censorship. So they try to spin it as something else.

No amount of mental gymnastics changes the truth of the matter though.

In denial of their own ignorance if you ask me. *shrug*

My 2cents on the matter (/minirant)

This is just so infantile. You people want to be able to post to ATS or not? Just because you can't discuss drugs and all that goes with that? I find it ridiculous that you people just don't get the point. This isn't about ATS's bottom line, but the bottom line of all ATS sized web communities that rely on ad revenue to survive.

You don't like it, fine, stop posting we're better without you and your whining.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I also think it would be a good idea to not waste any more time putting up a petition or some users such as myself will forget about it, grow impatient, or will confuse the actual petition when it becomes available with this thread.

reply to post by projectvxn


The point im trying to make is precisely that ATS SIZE communities certainly DONT need this kind of crappy third party advertising streams. Other people are merely pointing out the spin used to get the members on board "freedom of speech" isnt something which applies to these boards anyway.

By the way you may have noticed a lot of people have stopped posting recently, and it has impacted on the quality of the boards. I support a lot of what this sites about, and I also support the owners right to censor topics they dont want discussed here, its a private forum fair play, but ignoring problems with the establishment doesn't make the problems go away.

Dont worry though keep "denying ignorance", your doing a good job.

reply to post by gYvMessanger


It isn't about that. Posters come and go. I just don't think you guys are understanding what this is about. And it certainly isn't about censorship. It is about small business being pushed out in favor of flavorless giants. ATS is a growing site, and with growth comes growing pains. You can't have everything be perfect right away. There is a 'suggestions board' on ATS and rather than pretending as though you show no ignorance you could go to the suggestions board and make your case. The site admins do listen if the idea has merit and can be implemented without raising costs.

It seems all you people can do is complain, bitch, and whine about how you're not getting your way. You want things your way start your own site, maybe then you'll understand what it takes to maintain a community like this.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by projectvxn]