America Bombed Her own Ships?....Pearl Harbour Revisited

reply to post by Dark Ghost


LMFOA, feisty????
No not feisty; but not erroneously expressive either.
Fantastic analogy; when the first copy comes out can I get it autographed

Some of you are incredibly naive.

You really need to understand some basics.

Lie of the Century

reply to post by OhZone


Nice article!
Yes some of us are incredibly naive, the purpose for some of us to be here is to become more informed; yet some just like to argue.

How many know that Sir William Stephenson, the world war two spy master supposedly sent a courier (his niece) to Boston with a hand delivered note for the US president warning of an imminent attack on either Hawaii or US west coast in 9 to 20 days and that all of the JN carrier groups had left their bases. His neice who recently died, recalled reading the unsealed hanwitten letter on the train from New Brunswick.

Stephenson wrote that in his memoirs and indeed he did receive the highest US award from the President after the war. Unfortunately, he did not write his memoirs until dementia had set in so some details of certain accounts especially with respect to documented time-lines are arse before kettle and sadly have allowed various desperado to gain book sales at the expense of Sir William's creditability.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by seagull

Had the powers that be in Washington known before hand of an attack on Pearl Harbour, would they not have been better served by warning the commanders on the scene in time to defend themselves? The war would still have started... An unsuccessful attack is still causus belli, every bit as much as a successful one...

They knew, yet they didn't know... Too many trees kept them from seeing the forest, if you will...

Oddly how history parallels, isn't it? Much the same thing occured in the runup to the Trade Center attack.

Too much information, not enough skilled readers to interpret the info...

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?
Historians and government officials who claim that Washington didn’t have a foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack have always contended that America wasn’t intercepting and hadn’t cracked Japan’s important military codes in the months and days preceding the attack. The crux of your book is that your research proves that is absolutely untrue. We were reading most all of Japan’s radio messages. Correct?

Stinnett: That is correct. And I believed that, too. You know, because, Life magazine in September 1945, right after Japan surrendered, suggested that this was the case, that Roosevelt engineered Pearl Harbor. But that was discarded as an anti-Roosevelt tract, and I believed it, also.

Another claim at the heart of the Pearl Harbor surprise-attack lore is that Japan’s ships kept radio silence as they approached Hawaii. That’s absolutely untrue, also?

Stinnett: That is correct. And this was all withheld from Congress, so nobody knew about all this.

Until the Freedom of Information Act.

Stinnett: Yes.

Is this statement true?—If America was intercepting and decoding Japan’s military messages then Washington and FDR knew that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Stinnett: Oh, absolutely.

www.independent.org...


If President Roosevelt knew before hand, what does that make him? A murderer
and he has committed treason. However, Americans will not hold our Presidents accountable for anything. As long as we allow our Presidents, and Vice Presidents and Top military commanders to continue to commit treason on American soil we will continue to see more and more false flags in America.

In 1994 some of the files were release through the FOIA that say something totally different.

Our government is quiet capable of doing anything and anyone who has done some real research into 911 will find it was a false flag operation. The United States is well known for staging events to get into wars and covering up its criminal acts. Nothing new here.

Cover-up: the politics of Pearl Harbor, 1941-1946
By Bruce R. Bartlett

books.google.com... ppened

Day of deceit: the truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor

books.google.com... cvSnAeujKF0&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=12&ved=0CCgQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor

by John T. Flynn
October 1945

www.antiwar.com...

I imagine that most major wars were triggered by false flag attacks. Patriotic types become fairly irate when the facts are presented to them. Then again, what is patriotism but subjective indoctrination?

It's easy to see where some would see conspiracy where there might actually be none...but it sure looks that way. But that's why we have to look at issues from as many angles as possible, especially behind what curtains may indeed exist... Hmmm... We seem to have taken over the thread...

reply to post by seagull


Taken over the thread! Really?

Too much information, not enough skilled readers to interpret the info...

Why are you wasting your time on this?....We are simply not worthy

Well, the thread should be tittled "America the Savior of Mankind revisited".
In essence, American bankers financed Hitler to make war against Europe.
Then enter American bankers to "save" Europe enabling armed skirmishes with the Axis prior notifying the American public of the Government decision to officially enter the war against the Axis in the Europe and Pacific theaters.

It could be the case that some people convinced Hitler to make war and convinced everyone else to fight Hitler back, while those same people would be earning fortunes and it might happened that Germany and America were two useful idiots at the time.

We don't really know who controlled the military if we consider this scenario of events. Were the Bankers controlling the military and the intelligence in the US or was the Government? Prior to the official war declaration of the US Government against the Axis?
Kind to think of it. Is it any different today?

Lusitania a False Flag?
Perl Harbor a False Flag?
Tonkien a False Flag?
Bay of pigs a False Flag?
9/11 a False Flag?
(these are just some of the American side, I think there is plenty more of the same on either side)

America the Great or America the Gullible? (and the rest of the world an idiot)
If yes then in what light should England be painted? England the conniving, the devious? The conspiring? I won't talk about the Russians ..those were The Communists

I guess if these all proved to be truth they never really saved us Europeans in WWII. Was it a pretext to expand the dollar influence which is now declining? If yes then what next? Enter China man? How would They be playing the part of an useful idiot this time?

[edit on 16-11-2009 by spacebot]

If President Roosevelt knew before hand, what does that make him?

A war criminal. Unfortunately only Nazis were prosecuted.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by spacebot]

A war criminal. Unfortunately only Nazis were prosecuted.

reply to post by spacebot


Very interesting point

Everyone loves a the sentencing of a Nazi war-criminal; yet people such as Bush, Rummy etc fly under the radar.
let alone the stuff that goes on in Gaza.....oops, I'm dangerously close to being called Anti-Semetic........Again!!!!!

It takes ALOT to get me mad and you have done that well. I was stationed in pearl. I have seen the ships under water, the graves that they are. I have seen the bullet holes that still mark the buildings on Ford Island. I have spoken to men that were actually there for the attack. Including my grandfather and great uncle. Japanese pilots and officers admit their roles on the attack.

Please stop trying to label the US as a country of cowards and traitors. These tragedies are horrible. 9/11/2001 and 12/7/1941 just to name 2. Please man, don't disgrace the memory of thousands of men so you can feel like you know something noone else knows. WW2 happened. The holocaust happened. The Japanese bombed pearl. We landed on the moon also.

Do I trust the government, NO. Do I trust you or anyone you know, NO. Do I trust anyone out of my wife, dog and parents, NO. I spent too much time working for the government. But to make yourself believe these things, it's desperation and madness. Just try and do something to make a difference in the NOW. Not 1941.

One would think that if this was a false flag the government would have chosen a lesser target? Yes? No? We lost almost 200 military vessels in that attack including warships and fighter planes. Not a wise thing to do if you're planning to go into the biggest war of all time?

Were Americans willing to fight in WWII?
What was the sentiment?
Shouldn't had it been for an incident with numerous loss of life, would America had entered the war against the Axis?
Not many dead and mostly equipment loss and the public opinion shouldn't be shifting pro war. Many tend to think these matters with todays logic.
I am willing to bet it almost came close that even Perl Harbor wouldn't had been enough. People simply did not want to fight. The cream of enlisted would had been mostly impoverished immigrants which were flocking from Europe. They escaped their homelands misery, they wouldn't want to find themselves back in Europe in the middle of a war.
I had a relative an grand grandfather of mine who wouldn't been able to escape enlistment if he didn't go in to hiding forcing him to close down his business deciding to finally leave the US and another person one of the same era and almost same age of some friendly family of ours that did exactly the opposite, left from Europe to US to finally get enlisted in a special unit that never existed in papers and took part at special training, which members were to be allocated between common troops send in the front line. They were to act as "rabbits" do at dog races, to boost the morale of the rest of the unsuspected common folk not willing to risk their lives for a foreign war.
He even got his face in a post WWII US stamp which was issued in honor of the WWII US marines.

Reality is a bitch, so don't sweat it. Things like that have been happening for ages.


[edit on 16-11-2009 by spacebot]

Forgot to add that he took the decision to enlist in the group because they revealed to him that his folks were killed by the Nazis, which was a lie since he came back and found them alive after the war. He also said that the trainers were both US and English. He initially hide himself in a cargo boat, been found and decided to get enlisted in the army when in the training he excelled he was sent to Europe then approached by certain officers etc etc.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by spacebot]

I don't think the US bombed her own ships. I agree that there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the US has often used incidents to further political goals. I also agree that the US has even ignored reports of danger, allowed disasters to take place, in order to manipulate public opinion. There is plenty of evidence that says the US was aware of Japan's impendeing attack against Pearl Harbor. The Lusitania sinking was likely a provocation. Gulf of Tonkin was set up. 9/11, I'm not so sure about, but it wouldn't shock me to find that the US knew about it and let it happen, hoping to start a popular war. I'm not convinced they knew how serious the attack would be, but it certainly got the public's attention.

But I doubt very much that any of these were attacks by the US against itself.

reply to post by Ragnarok691


you are definitely taking things out of context friend.
no one has called you or any past or present serviceman/women a traitor or anything of the like. If anything; I know it takes time, but you may find the thread (in entirety) an interesting read!

Please refer to my OP (last paragraph) if you unsure of my sentiment to serving personnel!

Whether you serve the united states military or any other, you are duped into a political game on a global scale. This is essentially the substance of this thread. Men/women pledge their allegiance to a higher ideal; and are unaware their governments have already sabotaged and predetermined the outcomes.

America responsible for Pearl Harbour? That idea is nonsense. The bombing of pearl harbour was so devestating and strategic it is stupid to think it was planned. If the president at the time wanted to go to war there are better and more sane ways than to lose the majority of your navy during a two front war. No person, unless they were just labotamized, would rationally think it would be a good idea to go to war with one of the worlds greatest navies without half of yours, which is why we did not win a battle after that for 2 years. There are such things as good war strategy, its usually the sign of a good general not a government conspiracy.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by pyramid head]

reply to post by pyramid head

No person, unless they were just labotamized, would rationally think it would be a good idea to go to war with one of the worlds greatest navies without half of yours, which is why we did not win a battle after that for 2 years.

Well most posters here must have been lobotomized (just so you know, its Lob -pertaining to the frontal LOBES of the brain); as they don't share your view. At any rate, when has any amount of people dying for the sake of a political cause ever been fruitful or rational?
If you cannot make a logical deduction from all the information presented, take it on board and move-on.....you have my pity!

[edit on 11/17/2009 by KRISKALI777]

Its nice that you imply I do not know the meaning of a term because I did not spell it correctly, considering I have an undergrad in human biology and awaiting med school entry I am probably a little more qualified on the subject than you. My rationality was sound, why would one knowingly go to war and decimate half their navy? That would be insane. It does not make good sense for a reason, probably because it is not true.

reply to post by Ragnarok691

Please stop trying to label the US as a country of cowards and traitors. These tragedies are horrible. 9/11/2001 and 12/7/1941 just to name 2. Please man, don't disgrace the memory of thousands of men so you can feel like you know something noone else knows. WW2 happened. The holocaust happened. The Japanese bombed pearl. We landed on the moon also.

Let’s just sweep this all under the rug. Let us keep our mouth shut and obey Fox, CNN entertainment News. Let’s not question our government that should be working “for we the people.” Let’s all die and be murdered for some evil, greedy, political, agenda by a hijack coup that has con the American people to vote them in office. Let’s not investigate corruption in congress or in any Presidents administration.

It takes ALOT to get me mad and you have done that well.

We are all cowards to some degree and if we were not, we all should march to Washington DC and the White House and demand a real investigation in to everything including 911, JFK, all three hundred and fifty millions of Americans. If our government will put together and unbiased subpoena, power commission that “We the People” will approve of this will be a new beginning for the USA. If the government in Washington says no then we need to throw these elected officials out of office because no means cover-up.

Most American are afraid to speak out in public today about 911. The reason for this is the government using the mainstream media have made it very clear, it is unpatriotic, un American.

Why is it un- American to ask our government questions? When you have a government that people fear, then you have no government. We live in a democracy, not Russia or Iran.

Those that think there are no traitors in our government must live in a patriotic fantasy world. Look at Bush & Cheney? These two alone have committed treason on the American people and have slithered away, and never been held accountable.

People need to wake up and wake up fast because, America is slipping down stream at a fast pace.













[edit on 17-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by pyramid head


False flag operation don’t make sense but they happen all the time, all over the world, why not America?

Originally posted by KRISKALI777

Here are 4 infamous U.S. false flags for the ATS thinker:
WWI: The sinking of the Lusitania.

World War I, 1914-1918: A U-boat torpedo hit ocean liner Lusitania near Britain and some 1200 people, including 128 Americans, on board lost their lives. Subsequent investigations revealed that the major explosions were inside the Lusitania, as it was secretly transporting 6 million pounds of artillery shells and rifle ammunition, as well as other explosives on behalf of Morgan banking corporation to help their clients, the Britain and the France. It was against US laws to transport war materials and passengers in the same ship.

[edit on 11/16/2009 by KRISKALI777]

Do you even know what "false flag" means? What you have described here does not meet that definition. The attack on the Lusitania triggered the explosives in its cargo hold, producing secondary explosions. The fact that the US was secretly transporting supplies to the British is not evidence that the US wanted the Nazis to blow up that ship. On the contrary, hiding those weapons on an ordinary passenger ship seems to be a move to conceal their transportation and delivery to the British, especially likely considering that they were breaking the law by doing so.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by andrewh7]