The ONLY kind of hate allowed on ATS

What you mean to say is that ATS doesn't protect your beliefs from ridicule.

And you're right.

This is entirely a perception issue. To use a lighthearted example of what I mean, assume you're standing on the curb waiting for a bus next to another person. A car drives by, hits a puddle, and splashes the person standing next to you, drenching them. With the exception of a small minority of honestly caring, good hearted people, most would burst into laughter (either physically or, if one possesses tremendous self discipline, internally). So there you are, standing next to a person who was not physically hurt, is probably very angry, and is certainly a bit mortified, laughing at them. Put the shoe on the other foot, though. Now YOU are the one who got drenched and the other person is the one laughing... not so funny now, is it? Take it even further, BOTH of you get drenched and somebody on the other side of the street thinks its the most hilarious thing ever... you guessed it, we have two upset people who are failing to see the humor. It's all about perception.

By and large, I think ATS is extremely tolerant of the people laughing AND tends to be pretty nurturing of the ones who get drenched. This is why we can have people from every group, race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, political identity, etc saying that they feel their associated side "takes far more crap on ATS without any staff action." If you broke it down topic by topic, I believe you'd find for every "Jesus was a wive's tale" comment, you'll find a "Mohammed was a warmonger" or "Atheists are morons" comment to off-set it. The problem is, you start to feel picked on, and develop tunnel vision, only seeing what you percieve as being attacking towards something you identify with.

Everybody ocassionally needs to take a personal emotional inventory. Ask yourself "Am I taking insigifigant issues too seriously?" If something doesn't truly cause harm to come to you or others, is it worth getting yourself into a lather over? Ideological battles worth fighting are ones in which there is a tangible threat to your rights, beliefs, safety, happiness. Something like a single individual prescribing to and loosely indicating a personal hatred is not a tangible threat. At no time has anyone I am aware of ever been asked by ATS to stiffle their personal affirmation of a religious faith, nor has anyone ever been asked to permit themselves to be unjustly persecuted for their faith. Instead, the only thing ATS has ever asked every single visitor and member of the site to do is "think."

So maybe, just maybe, rather than burying anything we don't agree with under a label of "that's just hate speech" we could rise above the noise. *Think* about why you disagree with something, give the offending party a chance to explain their stance, and if you feel it warrants further discussion, discuss it! Discussions live and die on exchanges of productive, clear thoughts. Simply slapping something down as hatefull isn't productive and kills discussions.

reply to post by Roadblockx


I am sorry, I cannot agree with you. I have seen "anti-christian" threads but I have seen plenty of anti-jewish and anti-muslim threads, as well. It probably just bothers you more when you see the anti-christian threads or quotes, whatever, because you are a christian.

Good luck.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by really]

Its all religions in general, not just Christianity. Although I see a lot of comments aimed at Christians, I wonder if they realize they are insulting Pagans and Buddhists too.

reply to post by really


I agree, what ever group you are in, you will notice it more if it is you being talked about. Everyone, no matter what group you are in, gets talked about sooner or later. The diversity of ATS is what makes it so great. Being a christian I often wonder what I would be like if I had been born in an Arab country and raised Muslim.

Originally posted by really
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

I am sorry, I cannot agree with you. I have seen "anti-christian" threads but I have seen plenty of anti-jewish and anti-muslim threads, as well. It probably just bothers you more when you see the anti-christian threads or quotes, whatever, because you are a christian.

Good luck.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by really]

Wow... You couldn't have missed the point anymore if you tried. It was probably too hopeful of me to have you read the opening post before you did a drive by on this thread. In any event, thanks for adding your point of view.

reply to post by burdman30ott6




Alright, I'll bite. First I appreciate you posting your opinion on this topic as being a moderator sometimes put you in a rough spot and you did a great job with your point. It is exactly because of you and a few others that I didn't say "all" mods which would have caused me to fall on my own sword. Thank you, maxmars and a couple of the other mods who have added their insight to this discussion.

Second, I have to disagree with your post only slightly. I agree it is about preception. To make my point, I may enjoy jokes about....women. I know there is a time and place to enjoy those jokes and it isn't in front of my wife, at work or a formal event. Because the environment isn't right, telling said jokes would only cause to take away from the event and cause me to lose any respect my peers had for me. At the same time, ATS is a lot like that. This is not the place to lay insults but instead add insight to a discussion. Not the place to egg on or encourage discussion that becomes filled with nonsense or hate, but instead a place where passionate people can talk about passionate issues. Pointing out that you hate an entire group for their actions seems like hate to me. Again, I have seen a mix of opinions on here which is what I was hoping to get so that I could see how others took to the sig in question.

I still firmly believe there is a time and place to let loose and be a little "off the cuff" but in a debate about topics that people care about, mixing in comments that instill hate just leaves a bad taste. You wouldn't bring Denis Leary to a typical funeral because it isn't appropriate. Anyone should be able to see that. Hate in a discussion or on a site that is about anti-hate shouldn't allow inappropriate messages.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Roadblockx]

I really appreciate everyone expressing their ideas and opinions WITHOUT hate! I knew you all could do it. And thanks mods for sticking your neck out and helping us understand your world a little better. I know it has helped me respect you more. Also, thanks for not killing this thread. It has been a healthy exchange!



I really didn't expect the thread to last more then my first post!

I think most atheists do not hate xtians; many are very patient and try to educated these misguided zealots.

I think it is the xtian religions that spread hate through their dominionist dogma.

Here are some examples:

The Watchtower, October 1, 1952, p. 599

"We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earthÉ What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence."

www.mmoutreachinc.com...

According to this the "hate the sin, not the sinner" is inaccurate. Xtians are told they must hate the sinner and that it is sanctioned as a "godly hate".

The Watchtower, July 15, 1961, p. 420

"When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked.. Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah"


www.mmoutreachinc.com...

The above quotes were from one particular sect (cult) but it is a mindset becoming apparent in all xtian religions.

Frm "The Bible Minute"

Title: Godly Hate
Date: Sep 11, 2008
Topic(s): Evil

Being like Christ means not only exercising love like He does, but also hating the things He hates. If you do not hate what God hates, then you are not like Him and you can end up hating God instead. So, what does God hate?

I think we have all seen how some of these special interest religious groups use this concept of "hate" to manipulate others into spreading their dominionist agenda.

It is all about the self righteous arrogance of xtians being misled by their leaders into believing that they are god appointed to judge everyone else. Rather than get a life, they are sticking their nose in everyone elses.


Here is a recent youtube video from Oct. 18, 2009 which shows that this kind of thinking is prevalent in current times.

"Christians! We Must Pray for a Godly Hate!"

reply to post by Alethea


Ad a Christian myself, I do not consider the Watchtower to be a Christian publication in the least bit. I have to admit that it bothers me that someone would associate my beliefs with theirs, but that is getting off topic.

Wow. This thread has been quite enlightening for me. Had this thread had a different subject matter I might have done some J.W. bashing. I thought myself tolerant of all beliefs but I just proved my self wrong. Thank you OP because know I am more aware of this and can make an effort to change.

Originally posted by bsbray11
What you mean to say is that ATS doesn't protect your beliefs from ridicule.

And you're right.

And here is your award for having this most unrelated post.



Seriously... just awful.

reply to post by Roadblockx


Unrelated because it makes too much sense to fit into what you're saying at all, right?

People talk crap about everything on these forums. Why does your religion need special protection?

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

Unrelated because it makes too much sense to fit into what you're saying at all, right?

People talk crap about everything on these forums. Why does your religion need special protection?

Someone didn't do their homework! Shame, shame.

I think you have it wrong which is why I said your post didn't relate. I don't have a dog in this fight which I clearly disclaimed in my OP. The sig line I mention was probably what broke "the camel's back" for me along with the response from the mods. The sig line could have been about white people or black people, alien haters or those that hate fat people or tall people. The point is (and what you missed) is that it was about hate.

Don't get bent out of shape on this now. Stay on topic and add to it. Not a you verus me thing. It's about discussing hate, ok bro?

reply to post by Roadblockx

Pointing out that you hate an entire group for their actions seems like hate to me.

You have made this assertion many times. Others have challenged it. I'd like to strip down to basic logic.
The statement "I don't hate Christians; I just hate what they do" could only indicate hatred towards Christians, despite the opening, if it were the case that we are what we do. If, however, we are what we are & what we do is subject to all kinds of things, then it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that a person may hate what is done, but not the doer.
A wise man once asked me, "What are you, a human being or a human doing?"

Originally posted by Roadblockx

To get to the point, the only hate that is allowed on ATS is Anti-Christian.

When I saw your thread title that's the first "hate" that came to mind

I've seen a few threads with other religions as the target as well though.

Good job bringing it up - I really prefer to hate everyone equally
(Just kidding, I'm a lovah, not a hater)

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

Pointing out that you hate an entire group for their actions seems like hate to me.

You have made this assertion many times. Others have challenged it. I'd like to strip down to basic logic.
The statement "I don't hate Christians; I just hate what they do" could only indicate hatred towards Christians, despite the opening, if it were the case that we are what we do. If, however, we are what we are & what we do is subject to all kinds of things, then it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that a person may hate what is done, but not the doer.
A wise man once asked me, "What are you, a human being or a human doing?"

I will say that was one of the more deep yet simple responses. Star for you. I guess I am from the mindset that if you wear a shirt, badge, bumpersticker, etc., that you wear it to express a point of view you have. You wearing a shirt with a racial overtone may lead one to believe that you have racial tendencies.

I understand what you are saying but the actions the person "hates" defines what that group is which means you still end up hating that group. Otherwise, I could say that I don't hate gay people, just what they do. Isn't what they do exactly what makes them gay and me hating what they do is what makes them gay?



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Roadblockx]

Originally posted by really

I am sorry, I cannot agree with you. I have seen "anti-christian" threads but I have seen plenty of anti-jewish and anti-muslim threads, as well. It probably just bothers you more when you see the anti-christian threads or quotes, whatever, because you are a christian.

I agree, and on a similar note, there's a solid reason for it. The highest percentage of people on this website, based on speculation and English language, are living in Christian nations (UK, Aus, USA, Western Europe, Brazil).

That being so, it is commonly accepted to address ones issues with Christianity because it is common. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc are less commonly known in those countries so addressing them takes more of a moral and educational investment - thereby coming across as hate rather than questioning.

reply to post by notreallyalive


Thanks for the star and flag. I wasn't sure if they were going to leave it up but I believe that the discussion has remained positive and also gives the mods a chance to reach out to explain why they may think the way they do. A huge credit to them and to those who, like yourself, have stopped by.

Originally posted by breakingdradles
I've found there are MANY more anti-Islam posts.

I think the problem people at ATS have with Christians, is that they start debates here that they can't win, and use the Bible as fact.

The reason there is so much anti-Christian stuff here, is because there are so many Christians bashing other people’s beliefs.

It still puzzles me when someone can believe in a fairy tale, Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Oh really? Show me the Christian equivalent of Moocowman or Weedwhacker or Chaos ha ha ha. Show me how you arrived at this conclusion about debates they can't win when their isn't a person on these boards that doesn't always say it is the OTHER guys ignorance they are denying. Oh and by the way, when they look at the universe, they see Gods handiwork and wonder how it is you do not. When they see a fossil looking like a monkey, they see a dead monkey and wonder how you see a distant cousin or ancestor.

When you have a problem reconciling the first homosapeiennes found approx 3000 years ago are also in tandem with archaeological discoveries displaying technologies that can't be explained in evolutionary terms and they wonder why you insist on believing in fairytales also.

They wonder why it is wrong to have a moral compass that never changes written about in 4000 year old book written by men, when books also written by men, depicting what they say happened not just thousands of years ago but MILLIONS and with out anyone, no witnesses no scribes to tell of it, they wonder how that is any easier to believe.

Count the threads started by atheists attacking Christianity or the bible and you'll find a startling disparity.

Do the same with gays starting threads where they say homosexuality is not a sin and you'll usually find a slew of naive Christians getting alerted left and right for merely citing the verses that suggest otherwise and wham they are summarily ripped apart for bigotry and hatred and then we never see those Christians posting again and I wonder why. They are still members but they never say another word and I begin to wonder.

A day doesn't go by in this place where someone has just GOT to mention how evil religion is or the crusades as if that happened last week. If all of us were judged on our past, NONE of us would get by unscathed but the OP seems to have a good case that Christians are continuously assaulted using the past to contaminate what they are and how they think they should be seen in the present.

The hate and the climate of hatred for Christianity on this board it is alarming when you just Google some of the more commonly seen sound bytes leveled at them that are just simply NOT TRUE.

Example: How many times have you seen a Christian in a science debate about origins using the phrase "God did it" to cast the aspersions they are just not that bright about science. Every single page and their are thousands of them if you Google that phrase and every single one of them is said by an atheist or evolution guy SAYING Christians always say that but not once could I find the quote of a Creationist or ID proponent especially those that are scientist's, EVER saying that.

I think the anecdotes about flying spaghetti monsters are also merely jabs at Christians to escalate the temperature of the thread and steadily I have seen this said while the response is given an off topic sticker while the instigator is given fifty stars for a two line post and a number of other members saluting them for what amounts to be a dumb comment said over and over again on just about every website where these two ideologues are able to do this. Ill bet you that today, Christians are combining more of their voluntary time and money to both religious and secular worthy causes than most any other group, or philosophy yet all you ever see on ATS is they are good for nothing bastards shoving books down everyone’s throats


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]