The ONLY kind of hate allowed on ATS

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[edit on 13-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Mod Edit: DO NOT EDIT OUT MOD NOTES AND ACTIONS!

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Gemwolf]

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[edit on 13-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Mod Edit: DO NOT EDIT OUT MOD NOTES AND ACTIONS! If you like to say something to a staff member please feel free to U2U him/her or use the complaint feature.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by Roadblockx


There's a lot of anti-Christian sentiment here on ATS, this is because many people have awoken to the flaws of that religion and realized how it is used for control. Sometimes that sentiment does boil over into a hate of Christianity and disdain of Christians however I feel ATS does a fairly good job of reacting to blatant hate speech and ad hom attacks when they do occur.

I think there is a great deal of frustration in those of us who have awoken from the Christian nightmare of being indoctrinated into that belief system because when we attempt to reach out and show people of faith the flaws of their religion they merely spit scripture out like brainwashed zombies. Rather than use logic or reason they hide behind blind faith and it makes it frustrating and difficult to reach them and set them free.

I think another part of it is that Christians persecuted lot's of people over the centuries, anyone who didn't believe, and now some people who are anti-Christian are hungry for revenge in that regard and take every opprotunity to bash Christians.

That signature you mentioned "I don't hate Christians I just hate what they do" may seem offensive but look deeper at what many hardcore Christian fundamentalists do and you might understand where that person is coming from.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

There's a lot of anti-Christian sentiment here on ATS, this is because many people have awoken to the flaws of that religion and realized how it is used for control. Sometimes that sentiment does boil over into a hate of Christianity and disdain of Christians however I feel ATS does a fairly good job of reacting to blatant hate speech and ad hom attacks when they do occur.

I think there is a great deal of frustration in those of us who have awoken from the Christian nightmare of being indoctrinated into that belief system because when we attempt to reach out and show people of faith the flaws of their religion they merely spit scripture out like brainwashed zombies. Rather than use logic or reason they hide behind blind faith and it makes it frustrating and difficult to reach them and set them free.

I think another part of it is that Christians persecuted lot's of people over the centuries, anyone who didn't believe, and now some people who are anti-Christian are hungry for revenge in that regard and take every opprotunity to bash Christians.

That signature you mentioned "I don't hate Christians I just hate what they do" may seem offensive but look deeper at what many hardcore Christian fundamentalists do and you might understand where that person is coming from.

Yeah? Brain washed zombies? ya don't say? Flaws of their religion? mmm that is a real wise choice of words for an introduction to do what ? The faith they have is called blind? Yet your post is left alone and I think it is LOADED, I mean chalk full of an agenda and an under curren't of animosity regardless of what you think you have to show them the error of their blind faith. I don't see any salem witch survivors here do you? I mean most of those crusades victims are dead and gone and their are no justified victims to offer "revenge". These Christians on this board had nothing to do with that but it is thrown in their faces on a daily basis here and yeah every single day I see a thread where someone insists on using words to justify such an infraction of TC but never have i seen it corrected. Never have I seen it called what it is and it instigates and stirs things up a bit to start. Then the flying spaghetti monster is introduced next and the alleged superior grasp of science merely by converting to atheism. I mean I have seen it a thousand times, and the same hurt feelings get aroused but they are just being over sensitive while say it is insensitive to even suggest that kind of thing when it is so obviously going on in here. It's not my business but it is what it is and it is how it looks.

I read your post and their is just so many extra and unnecessary adjectives for me to conclude you are being anything less than deceitful.

When Words like "fundie" or "xtian" are given lame excuses for why they are said that way. I know why they are said and they are said because people want to not only dis-respect them, but they want them to KNOW they do.

That signature you mentioned "I don't hate Christians I just hate what they do" may seem offensive but look deeper at what many hardcore Christian fundamentalists do and you might understand where that person is coming from.

No way, I got to hear this. I can say this about people in general man, I can say I don’t hate people, I just hate “some” of the things they do” Then I have to take a hard look at just what is it I hate about it and is it really something that justifies me giving it or them the hatred I am investing in it?

Ok, so just what exactly IS IT "they" the “fundamentalist” ones do, that warrants all this "revenge" what have they done to you that is so much worse than anything I guess I have ever seen? The only thing I have seen them do is knock on doors during half time or say some scripture thing that I can take it or leave it but I just haven’t been bothered by them all that much and where I live they have all kinds too.

Nothing deserving the kind of mockery or ridicule and certainly if you know them as you say you do, then, you know how successful you are going to be sharing your wisdom of how flawed their beliefs are, especially when they aren’t asking.

You must know it isn’t the wisest thing to do to start the discussion by calling their faith “blind” when it is clear you have no idea what faith is much less think it has anything to do with what they think it means. You think it is wise to precipitate your climate to ready them an open mind when you preface their actions, “those of a brainwashed zombie” .?

C’mon man you expect me to believe you’re even being sincere?

I am likely to think you’re someone who has either had Christians try waterboarding you into the faith or a salem witch survivor back for revenge LOL The last thing I am going to think is that you are impartial and unbiased but cloaking your own disdain warranted or not by a thin veneer of antagonistic ridicule.

I get that and I get that about you from your post and I got no reason to be "over sensitive" Christianity and Christians are the only topic and people, I have seen, the only group, I keep seeing, getting blamed for all the evil there has ever been in the history of the world.

Not homosexuals, Not debunkers or truthers not zionist's or jews and no, not even muslism's get that kind of unwarranted ridicule around here where the words specifically designed to instigate, hurt or defame, inflame etc, go unpunished and they are no different a slur to them than any Ive seen railed against race or gender yet such critiscism is given protection in our Constitution and even THAT has been totally turned upside down to mean something completely opposite to what was intended by the authors who wrote it.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

reply to post by Kerry_Knight



My agenda is the freedom of my fellow man and that includes freedom from the blinders of empty faith. There are those who hold their religious beliefs for a reason, and there is the vast majority who buy blindly into a religion based on

Guilt. Fear of some imaginary Hell. Group coercion (wanting to fit in with the collective). Obey or burn. Doubt and be damned.

Yes religion creates zombies, people who cannot reason or use logic because they have been programmed by religion to believe a certain way. Politics works much the same. Religion is a system of behavioral programming that initially was a benefit to society but now holds us back.

People should be able to believe whatever they want but those beliefs are allowed to be questioned and it seems anytime someone begins to question them and their affects the believers get up in arms. I am not one of those searching for revenge I merely stated that they are out there.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Kerry_Knight

 

My agenda is the freedom of my fellow man and that includes freedom from the blinders of empty faith. There are those who hold their religious beliefs for a reason, and there is the vast majority who buy blindly into a religion based on

Guilt. Fear of some imaginary Hell. Group coercion (wanting to fit in with the collective). Obey or burn. Doubt and be damned.

Yes religion creates zombies, people who cannot reason or use logic because they have been programmed by religion to believe a certain way. Politics works much the same. Religion is a system of behavioral programming that initially was a benefit to society but now holds us back.

People should be able to believe whatever they want but those beliefs are allowed to be questioned and it seems anytime someone begins to question them and their affects the believers get up in arms. I am not one of those searching for revenge I merely stated that they are out there.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

Oh man you don't even want to know what I think of your last post. I might get as sensitive as you are insulting and I don't even go to church but you may go on insulting them as you are now and not one single post of yours will be removed but many will have your post seared across their minds for the, mmm can't even say it without sounding as ignorant as your understanding of Christians has been.

So Hope we never see each other in the same thread again. I might not be this nice and you might be just as insulting but looking at your posts, I think I can count on that, you seem to enjoy it

By the way, NOTHING you said seems logical to me either especially in the same voice you say you are seeking to enlighten these people.

I don't know anyone that listens to people after they are insulted by them first and you have made that clear you intend to do that from the very start. Gee that to me doesn't seem logical one bit but I have found those who claim they have all this logic, are the ones I see making the most illogical statements and have the biggest axe to grind.

Liars don't make logical statements, they just think they do.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

People shouldn't take offense... just ignore idiotic statements. These people are looking for a reaction and when you react, you fuel their drive to make idiotic statements.

Gotta agree and disagree, agree that a lot more slides as generalisation about Christians, but at the same time you are mistaking opinion for just hate speech, I stand by 'while I disagree with what you say I will defend to the death your right to say it'.

There's always groups trying to label things 'hate speech' as if its separate from free speech, as soon as it becomes thought crime you can kiss the rest of your rights goodbye.

Really you should be glad you're in a society that can question religions and even hate them because as soon as it becomes illegal to say you can bet religion will be banned too.

Originally posted by endisnighe
I always wondered how many Christians were killed in the 20th Century by the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

It seems history, kind of glosses over atrocities committed against Christians and only pushes the atrocities committed by Christian Zealots.

That was ridiculously ignorant of you, Hitler and Himmler were devout Catholics, and believed they were doing God's work. That WAS an atrocity carried out by Christians!!

Originally posted by whateverponcho
i've seen a lot worse things said about muslims, apparently people can't draw the line between muslims and muslim extremists.

same with countless other groups of people. get used to it. thats not even that bad a line. a lot of christians are hypocritical #

[edit on 12-11-2009 by whateverponcho]

The muslims', religious leaders,incite their members to violence.Non-muslims,are likened to animals in most of their eyes.I have read books
and articles about islam,trying to be more understanding of them.
But,all I see is hatred from them and no tolerance for any other religion
save islam.So,I gave up trying and devote my time to defending my own
faith.

Yesterday I overheard an interesting conversation in the bus. It was hard not to hear what they had to say since they were speaking quite loud. The conversation was between a young man and a young woman. I'll just break down the basics of what I heard. Everything good that happened to them was though the grace of God. He got a new job "through the grace of God". Not because he had the right qualifications, or he was hard-working, or he had a good personality, or the interviewer liked him, but BECAUSE he was a Bible-thumping church-going Christian.

God blessed the young woman with a loving relationship. She wasn't in the relationship cause she had a sparkling personality, or she was good-looking or there was something the guy found appealing about her. No, she was in a relationship cos she was a God-fearing, church-going Christian who went to "Youth".

They basically attributed everything good happening in their life to God and not to their own abilities or endeavours. And if anything bad happened to them it was because they did something bad so God punished them. How on Earth can this be a good thing?

I'm not trying to condone "hate-speech" against Christians, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at.

I'm sure the vast majority of people don't hate Christrians. What is there about Christians to hate?

The majority of Christians seem to be nice people that care about others in a true Christian sense.

In addition, saying Muslim religous leaders promote violence is akin to saying that Christian leaders promote violence. Some do, the majority don't.

However a certain class of Christians have launched an assault against science because it disagrees with their world view. The majority of 'science' threads on ATS become to-and-fro between Christians arguing with others that their religous world view is right. The majority of these seem to be from the US, whose citizens are more likely to form pressure groups and voice their opinion because of the way their society works.

This doesn't lead to hate against Christians. People are tired of the constant forcing of Christian opinion and pseudoscience on them but it isn't hate.

If you want to be a Christian then thats fine. Keep up the good work being unselfish and helping your fellow man. Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you. Keep your religion to yourself.


[edit on 13/11/2009 by LightFantastic]

My problem with wanting protection for religion against 'Hate' is that whereas other victims of predujice are attacked for physical charecteristics that they can do nohting about, religion is a choice.

It's wrong to discriminate or preach hatred to someone because of the colour of their skin because they were born that way; it's not something they had any choice about therefore it is unjust to penalise them for it.

Same with sexuality.

But when someone joins a religion they are making a free choice to ascribe to a set of core beliefs and practises. It's entirely appropriate that people who who don't ascribe to those beliefs should be allowed to critique and question them, especially when those beliefs become the basis of a system of power and hence affect other people who don't believe the same thing.

reply to post by Lannock

There's nothing wrong with that though, pride is a deadly sin ya know... Im willing to bet youd be pissed off to hear 'Im so kickass I got this new job, and so hot I got this hot girlfriend, and so cool I have more friends than anyone..."

Some people attribute things to God, or hard work, or destiny, or coincidence, or luck...
Personally I dont believe in luck...

Do not expect perfection if you can not offer it yourself.
I do not know if "only hate allowed" is the best way to explain an appeal for increased observation and movement toward censoring.
That is the alternative youre proposing, you do know that dont you?

maybe you can take this as an opportunity to "create" one in response to the one you dont like,
possibly...... "I love the hater but I hate what they write"
I mean if you are going to take the stance and speak out on your position of religion then dont picnic basket it, set up a big table and use ALL the teachings.... for yourself.....(love your brother, turn the other cheek, do unto others, judge not lest ye be judged, let he without cast the first stone)

I'm not pointing and ripping on you in anyway, just sometimes, its easy to look at "others" under a microscope....
how's that one parable go?.... something about a splinter being noticed but the log sticking out of your eye is not?

I'm sure your concern is genuine.
Peace....

Originally posted by breakingdradles

It still puzzles me when someone can believe in a fairy tale, Christian, Muslim or Jew.

If it puzzles you, it must be because it conflicts with your beliefs. Could well be that you worship at the altar of self, but you do indeed have a religion, make no mistake about it. And btw, you didn't provide any inerrent facts supporting your beliefs or undermining others' beliefs that you call fairy tales.

reply to post by Roadblockx


Well lets see if you can disagree with this statement, "Religion breeds hate." Plain and simple, historically religion brings out the worst in people and has cause more hate and murders then anything else... EVER. So I think in general the topic is misleading because hate and religion run hand and hand.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

Well lets see if you can disagree with this statement, "Religion breeds hate." Plain and simple, historically religion brings out the worst in people and has cause more hate and murders then anything else... EVER. So I think in general the topic is misleading because hate and religion run hand and hand.

Wow! This sounds pretty hateful. Is it your religion that teaches you this?

reply to post by Roadblockx


There are other forms of hate which are either ignored, or not even seen in the website.

You will find that there are some members who include in their sigs phrases like "don't listen to idiots", or "deny idiots/ignorant people" or other similar comments, and of course such comments are directed towards those members, and topics these members don't believe in.

In turn these members who have these signatures are circunventing the rules of ATS by not insulting directly a member, but we all know exactly what they mean.

If a person makes an ignorant remark, or claim, and you can post proof about it, then such person has been, or is ignorant, at least in that particular topic, but some members throw around such claims even when their claims are based on nothing more than wild accusations, without any real evidence to back such accusations.

For the most part the staff doesn't have the time to read everyone's signatures, or responses. Even though from time to time certain topics are immediately relegated into forums which have been labeled as "a disease, and a plague," as well as labeling members who participate in such discussion are likewise being labeled. Again, the admins, and or staff can have their opinion, but this doesn't mean that their opinions are right.

I believe EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions, even the staff, and the admins, but what I don't believe, nor think is that just because they are staff/admins, that their opinions MUST be right.

For the most part I think most of them are trying to do what they think is right, although even if for some that belief is misplaced because some of them might at times put their own "opinions" as "irrefutable."

I do know that even in a website such as ATS there has to be rules, and laws, but I also know that many of the topics being discussed about "the government having too much power, and misusing such power" from time to time also occurs in websites like this one. You can't avoid it. People have their own opinions, and beliefs, and as such will show their bias at least from time to time.

But as I was saying, for the most part i think many, if not most of the staff are doing what is right, or at least what they think is right and what falls within the rules, and regulations of the website.

This is a website that has members from all over the world, so we will see different biases, and beliefs being put forth by the different members. Some members will go as far as being completely ignorant, not to mention rude, and that is something that cannot be avoided, simply because anyone can be part of the website.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Well lets see if you can disagree with this statement, "Religion breeds hate." Plain and simple, historically religion brings out the worst in people and has cause more hate and murders then anything else... EVER. So I think in general the topic is misleading because hate and religion run hand and hand.

In some cases it is true, but not in all cases. in your case, it is obvious you are not religious, but you are demonstrating hate, more so towards religion, and religious people. How are you different than those religious people, or religions that are hateful?... You are not different than them, hence hate does not go hand in hand with religion, and your case is a prime example of this.

Wow, xcowman would be overjoyed if he knew he inspired an entire thread.

He must be busy with some type of ritual or something.

But yes, there is a lot of anti-Christian allowed here, but also anti-Jew, only a small amount of anti-muslim. It is pretty much in that order.

reply to post by Roadblockx


There are far other more forms of hate that occur on ATS than just religion, race, sex and creed.

But then again, Hate is in the eye of the beholder. And for the record hate is not the opposite of love. Apathy is the opposite of love.