To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by spy66

 

If you THOUGHT someone had, just for example, sexually harassed your mother, would you not be pissed?

Yes i would be pissed. But i wouldn't go and punish every one in the neighborhood just because i was pissed. I wouldn't torture, arrest and kill innocent people who dont have anything to do with the harassment.

Originally posted by rainfall

To use that word 'hero' on any military personnel today is a disgrace...the word I use is' terrorist.''

My husband was reading over my shoulder and he made a kind of scoffing noise at your post and said "It must suck to not even be creative enough to come up with an original insult. Next time try to call me a name that my government hasn't already called me." He paused for a second and then continued "But, make sure you don't do it on a Tuesday and it can't contain the words 'the' or 'butter'. Since I keep hearing that I fought for your right to freedom of speech, I am hereby revoking my service on your behalf and am declaring that my service afforded you the use of those two words on that day in the past, but as of right now, your permission has been removed."

I got the impression that he wasn't much impressed with being called a terrorist again. Admittedly, he was joking when commenting about revoking your use of the words "the" and "butter" on Tuesdays, but he is far more generous than I am. I wouldn't have been joking. He is far more easy going than I am, too. I was upset on his behalf at the flagrant hate and disrespect shown by some in this thread and he just shrugged and said that he hopes you are all glad that you live in the safety of countries that allow you the freedom to disrespect the troops, that many people aren't nearly so fortunate.

The other vets here have my thanks for your service and protection.

Take care,
Cindi

reply to post by jam321


You're a good man and I think you handled that post excellently. Although the OP has a couple of decent points (at least, this is the way he rationalized it while making this post) he doesn't really realize how charged this blanket statement really is. I guess the worst case scenario is that HE IS aware of how this vicious statement can affect those who have actually served and wanted to make a difference. Even if it is/was on false pretenses (i.e. result of backstabbing and lying politicians) I think you approached this well and I appreciated being able to read it.

When a person hates you with every fiber of their existence, the best thing that you can possibly do is love them in return.

Many of you have failed to recognize that it wasn't the OP's intent to participate in this. The OP wanted to start a popular thread and observe how his words were able to manipulate you into debate. His thread is getting tons of replies and he's able to validate for himself the power of his apparent puppeteering skills.

Think about it folks.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

It doesn't even matter if you think that these men and woman are heros. If almost all of them consider themselves anything but, a hero. That's what I don't get. When did you come to the conclusion that all the people that serve are heros? Its just a job that few people want to do and the few that do, do it on their own terms. I don't think anyone in the military even wants the hero title. Just to do their jobs and live their lives.

I served and am no hero. The real heroes opposed the war.

reply to post by ablue07


That's pretty darn poignant.

He's not even an American, so why is anyone surprised?

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Nicaragua, Iraq 1 & 2, Afghanistan 1 & 2....they all miss the litmus test for "fighting for freedom".

Thanks for your complete lack of understanding of the issues of the day, and your complete disrespect for me, and others like me. Coming from you, I will wear that disrespect as a badge of honor.

Most of you are NOT heroes, not protecting my freedom. Don't think for a second I'll be fooled the same way your Sergeant drilled that fantasy into your head.

Nope, I'm nothing even like a hero. However, don't make the mistake of thinking that just because someone isn't fighting for YOUR freedom, they aren't fighting for freedom all the same. SOMEONE'S freedom. Believe it or not, it ain't all about YOU.

It wasn't a Sergeant that drilled that into my head, well, some of them may have been sergeants. It was soldiers on the opposition sides that convinced me of it. Unlike you, who can speak with such confident arrogance of things he understands not, I SAW, with my own eyes, what I fought against.

And I saw what happened when we sometimes lost, like in Nicaragua. I know PRECISELY why I've done the things I have.

Now that I have that off my chest, I feel better. Thanks for listening.

You're welcome. That normally costs $100.00 an hour, and you have to lay down on a couch. If you feel better now, then run along and play.

Come back and see us again.

reply to post by HotSauce


But he's not Iraqi and Saddam has nothing to do with his freedoms.
The whole "Lest's invade Iraq/Afganistan to protect our freedoms" is a joke..

The responses from many of the "heroes" in this thread (Vets and such) shows most are under a MASSIVE delusion of self importance. The terms "for your freedom" are in almost every single post by the Pro Military "Hoorah" side.

Go back and check for yourself. It's almost as if one person could have written all the numerous responses. Almost all of the responses have some form of self righteous "you should be thankful" tone. I should? You fought for my Freedom supplying water in Iraq? How odd. THe hive mind is so active that you can't see beyond it.

Some go to say that it is "Just a job" only to finish with "You should respect us".

Well if it's just a job, why should I give you any special kudos? Ohhh that's right, because you "fought for my freedoms"....gotchya. In almost every post, it always comes back to that.

Face it, you don't know why you fought. You are suffering from a fantasy because you have no other choice....who wants to admit the violence they inflicted on others was based on fraud. Obviously you're going to hide from such ideas.

And the disdain for civilians that question you, as if we're mere peasants because we don't agree with your club...your gang. How we "just don't get it". Oh and the constant references to "manning up" and "growing a pair". What a friggin locker room meatwad bunch of children. Jesus Christ man how do even take yourself seriously with that crap? What kind of a toolbox says such things?

Soooo tough and courageous. Of course nobody but a military man or woman has any guts huh? Soooo self righteous so indignant of us mere mortal civilians. After all you can only learn how to have respect and be an acceptable member of society in the Armed forces...huh? I bow to thee for thou service in thou Haliburtonshire dear Sirs.

This is the reason I have disdain for the whole system now. This is the reason why there are so many like me that simply don't have any sympathy for you or your experiences. The arrogance you have is disgusting.

You alienate yourselves from the civilian world because you think we owe you something for fighting in BS wars based on lies. Claiming 'duty' and such garbage. Yeah, well Hitler's army had a duty too, and every other friggin Tyrant on the planet. What makes you think your silly ass is beyond that?

And you didn't fight for the right for me to say any of this. Greater men than you did, and they're all or mostly dead. How dare you present day cultists compare yourselves to them.

What the F ever man...seriously...take a hike.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I guess putting your life on the line and fighting under your countries flag doesnt equate to anything these days huh Op?

These guys dont even think of themselves as heroes, and most of them are just following orders from people high up in the American military...so its a bit demeaning to put words into their mouths assuming that they are self proclaimed heroes.

What does our flag equate to? Can you answer that?
The problem THESE DAYS is what is DOES equate to.

My family for generations were military.

My grandfather and his brothers served in north africa and landed in anzio. Shot in the legs and ended up a cripple dependent on military benefits. His brothers are dead. My father grew up in poverty because of that in a three bedroom apartment and worked hard to get out of it until he was drafted to go to vietnam. It effed up his head pretty good for a long time. I went to desert storm. The things I saw there were not good. It wasnt a war. It was a slaughter. You start seeing the faces of your own children and family on the bodies you see there. No one I knew and no one in my family looked at themselves like a hero, but rather, victims. You dont just shut off what you saw and go on about your life. Not that easy. We were all normal people with aspirations and goals and these things were FORCED aside so we could do things that were wrong and none of our damned business.

When I got out, unlike what I was promised I had no useable skill to start a career in the civilian world. I lied myself into my first job and had to struggle and adapt to figure out what I was doing. I AM lucky for that.

Now all these years later with an 11 year old son of my own, the cycle is broken. I have talked to him about war. I've talked to him about my father, and my grandfather as well as what I have seen, and I have told him the truth. There is no way in hell he'll be doing a damned thing in the military for anyone. He'll be pursuing his dreams and he'll succeed with my help. He'll succeed because he now knows to steer clear of anything with a freaking american flag on it.

I heard someone mention the word coward...well it takes far more bravery to stand up for what is right than to suck up your true feelings and go die.

This flag, and all this "thank you for your service" crap to me is more like saying "thank you for being a fool", or "thank you for starting ahead of the game and screwing it all up". But I do not blame the vets for this.

And for people to mention "our freedom"...what freedom????
This country makes every sttempt to trap you at every turn. It steals almost half your salary, it fines you, and then taxes you everytime you spend what you have left. The entire system is rigged against you. And if you are someone brave enough to try and show others about how to break the cycle of this flag pissing all over you, you are labelled a coward? I'll show you coward...

Does this mean I think vets deserve no respect? Absolutely not. They are some of the most disrespected individuals on this planet. Why?
Because they are dragged into situations where they are forced to save their asses. People around the world have learned to hate us. It's not about being a hero like mentioned before. It's about survival. And in that, the whole "thank you" thing falls apart. Many are still trying to survive long after they get back home. What the hell?

If you want to respect the vets, show them that the cycle is broken and refuse to go around the world where we have no legitimate threats and stop helping the bastards that send you there from getting richer. At least then, they will see that someone else learned from what they had to go through.

Maybe one day in the future knowing what US Vets know now, we can create something honorable by defending our freedoms against the most tyrannical piece of crap in world history...the American Flag. Because to that end, many, many thanks would be in order, and we would indeed be free.

Now I will say this for the rest of the vets who survived....

Your suffering will not be forgotten. And the guilty parties will one day be punished. That's what veterans want to hear. That will bring closure. Closure for all.

reply to post by jca2005


Please don't compare the soldiers of today to the Minute Men and revolutionary war heroes of the past. They would LAUGH and CRY and are rolling over in their graves if they new what kind of country America has turned into. The only "beaches" they would storm and the only enemy they'd be fighting today if they were alive would be in Washington, DC. America is a FAR CRY from what she once was 250+ years ago. I can only imagine what Thomas Jefferson probably thinks of America today. My god can you imagine?

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


LOL! I love it when arrogant know it all brats get their little feelings hurt just because they can't compete, and throw tantums!

Looks like some vet some where scored a direct hit. How does it feel to not be able to out-think those you so disdain as "delusional" and "mad"?

Entertainment. Just one more thing vets have guaranteed for us all!

[edit on 2009/11/12 by nenothtu]

Posts like these make my day

I just love seeing the OP getting shot down for silly posts by a band of intelligent people.

You are suffering a delusion that you cannot escape. You "served" corporate masters and bankers and politicians. You swallowed the entire romantic bile hook, line, and sinker, that you are a beautiful snowflake entitled to praise for the career path you chose.

You are under a spell that you are closely guarding because it is most likely all you will have.

That's called madness.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by network dude

 

Typical............everyone against US foreign policy and our militaristic agenda is a liberal? You're a real thinker aren't you?

how close am I? Are you a liberal?

Oh the military. For those who serve, and those who have people that do serve, and can form your own opinion, I offer this to you. I have in my family a navy seal, an air-force firefighter, an air-force Colonel, a WWII Normandy vet, and several army grunts.

With that said, there stories to me, plus easily available statistics reveal an interesting story. America pays 100's of millions of dollars on paying off people who are unfairly damaged by the military, and I don't mean from war. The military constantly destroys civilian bars, shops, homes, etc, and this isn't even in war zones. The military, the army specifically although by no means alone, are a walking rape factory. They rape 100's of thousands of women, children, men, etc, a year, and that accounts for a large portion of our military "damage" fund.

They allowed women into the military war zones my family and I are convinced so that they would be raped instead of locals. Women who join the military are given anti rape devices to protect them from FELLOW SOLDIERS! With a quick glance, you can see image of the barbed wire insert women soldiers are given to place inside there vaginas so that the penis of the attacker is damaged in the rape. Before you ask, the military releases the statistics of the amount of times these barbed wire defenses have been removed by army doctors.

In Iraq alone, there were enough rapes against just female US soldiers by US soldiers to allow for a rape by every man there 3x! To make matters worse, the men get so angry about there penis's being barb wired that the rest of the men raping the women do it extra violent, and make sure they damage her. So the army told women just to "lie back and take the gang rapes so they don't kill you." Nice isn't it? If your wondering the punishment for rape, you lose your desert for three days. That isn't a joke, if you rape someone you lose desert for three days. Also, the army doesn't record rapes against women or men under 12 years old. Trust me, they should.
i won't even get into the ones who kill babies, children, women and men for fun with no consequence.

With all that said, not every soldier is a rapist or a sadistic murder, but many are. Very few soldiers are heroes, just like very few civilians are. Unfortunately, for every soldier that saves a child, there's one that killed one for fun, and three that raped a woman or child. Again, same as in civilian life. I'm sure some foreign visitors near US bases can tell you there own perspective of what happens on and near oversea bases.

The stats are skewed a little by the type of people who are usually on the bottom barrel of the military. Officers often have to go through some sort of vetting program, or show they can be successful outside the military, while grunts can get in without even a ged, they are usually desperate, unsuccessful in the real world and accept service as the last chance to earn money. These bottom of the barrel people are generally more prone to murder and rape, and when you group them together, your asking for trouble.

Oh well, take it for what it's worth, and to the good vets out there, happy veteran's day.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by Icerider

 

Good post! I love your term career soldiers because that's also very much part of the problem with the US military. It's one thing to be drafted and fighting for your country due to a threat like Hitler, which was the case for the WWII generation. It's another thing to be a career military person who's sole livelihood revolves around wars and constant battle. The average WWII or hell even Vietnam soldier was hardly a "career" soldier. I think that's the other problem with our military. It's a ever engulfing beast......it's like a huge corporation.......constantly expanding, constantly seeking out new avenues of growth and profit. It's sickening really.

you must be twelve. You obviously have no earthly idea about the military or much else in this world. You are very well versed in trollology. I bet your mommy and daddy are liberals as well. Did they spit on soldiers coming back from Vietnam? You and the OP should share a room.

reply to post by network dude


I'm a libertarian tough guy! Grandfather was Navy, Father was Army, brother was AirForce and Uncle was Marine. my family has represented just about every branch in the military. Nice try though!