Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? I don't think so!

Hotsauce i'm still waiting on your source to back up this claim

That is very rare though. Most abortions are due to the fact that having a child would be inconvieient to the mothers future life.

It's your job to back up your claims with sources.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by concernedcitizan

 

Wow so you would rather pay for an unfortunate childs life to end more than you would be for paying to defend your country? To each his own I guess, but I must say I don't undertand or agree with your logic.

I understand the logic. In either example, many people die. His idea, I think, is to end it before they have to go through any kind of suffering and hardships in life, only to have it needlessly snuffed out in a meat grinder of a useless war.


Personally, I'm, I guess, pro-choice, if i had to choose heh. But I am against taxpayer funded abortions. Something about that too easily leads to "eugenics" to me.

IMO only.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
As an ex american citizen and taxpayer I am probably responsible for more deaths then I care to imagine. In my adopted country of The Netherlands we have gov. subsidized abortions up to the 24th week. I would rather pay for that then for imperial wars of conquest. And now I am off to the coffee bars.

How very sad and telling as the human race when one can so easliy dismiss the sanctity of human life so they can go to the coffee bar.

We all seem so quick to get off the subject of abortion and then try and pacify ourselves with some meaningless dribble.

A life is a life....PERIOD. Whether killed on the field of battle, by tragedy, accident, on purpose, or through the despicable act of abortion.

This is another attempt to shirk responsibility for one's actions by throwing it at the taxpayer. And if you folks can't see how truly socialistic our country is becomming, then we might be more sunk than I fear.

The Constitution makes NO SUCH PROVISION for the GOVERNMENT to do ANYTHING in this regards. There needs to be a FEDERAL BAN on all abortions. If one wants to be promiscuous, then there is the morning after pill. Let that decision be on your conscious, not mine.

And while rape and incest are horrible, emotionally damaging events, it does not take away from the fact that a potential human life who had NOTHING to do with the tragedy will be detroyed only to HIDE the evidence of what happened.

And we call ourselves evolved?

I don't think so.

From my understanding the right seems to be hardcore into everybody taking care of themselves.

I figured they would support a one time flat rate of getting rid of the problem instead of making payments.

To the OP.

In my opinion, yes they do. Why?
I pay for the police force with my taxes don't I? Don't you?

Did you know that since abortion has been allowed by rule of law, the crime rates immediately dropped in the following 20 years despite the rise in population.

why?

abortion. BY not bringing people into high risk, uncaring, broken social constructs, we reduce the amount of people who will turn to crime, who will do criminal acts because of their own broken psyche that was imminent due to them being brought into the world unloved and unwanted.

yes, we should pay for abortions. Not as a form of birth control, but as a form of social responsibility.

You can't stop people from screwing, but you can stop the results of that loveless act.

I don't subscribe to sheep like ideas of left vs right. There are actions that need to be taken in society in order to make it better. Abortion is one of those things.

You're ok with paying taxes that buy bombs that get dropped on innocent families living in social constructs you have been mentally conditioned to hate, and if you don't hate them, you simply don't care when you hear about their plight.

Try to have an objective realistic view of the world.
Abortion is a necessity. When it is voluntary and willfully carried out, I will support that. Fix the one broken person first, then we can work on fixing the ones who were brought into the world already broken.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


LOVE IT, nothing else need be said!

I consider abortions murder but do agree that some circumstances would override this. Now I have become actually (not pro-abortion) but glad in some ways that these unborn will not face this sick and perverted world that is on its way (rapidly) to the abyss. Personally bringing a child into this ever changing (not so good) reality we now face could be considered a sin. How cruel and how careless but thats the kind of beings to many have become. Ignorant, self indulged, me and only me and I want what I want when I want it. No planning, no preparation just me, myself, and I. Except the child that will suffer in to many cases.

Originally posted by MattMulder

Originally posted by galatea
I would rather my taxes pay for an abortion than pay for that mother to be on welfare.

Well said. But given the OP is some pro-life hardcore , you speak in the void Galatea.

to OP : I'm French, and as our coffee bar friend ( post n2 ) we have state-paid abortions. I was at age 17 involved in an abortion, which I helped my girlfriend go through. My condom just failed , like in 1% of any sex act involving a condom. Being a father at age 17 because of some pro-life christians dictating our behavior towards cells multiplying in a womb didn't make me feel happy - it still doesn't 10 years later - .

On the other hand , if you don't want to look like a christian neo-con, try using better words than " vacuum clean the baby " or whatever terms you use. A cell splitting in two then four then eight and so on is NOT LIFE. When the baby opens his/her eyes and screams for the first time, this is life. Not before. Got it ?

EXCUSE ME, U think your god or something? I have been pregnant 3 times and each of my children was alive from the moment of conception. By the 14th week i could feel them move. At 4 weeks I heard their heart beats. Conception is life. Having an abortion doesnt keep a woman from becoming a mother she just becomes a mother to a dead baby instead of a live one.

Originally posted by djusdjus
You can't stop people from screwing, but you can stop the results of that loveless act.

This has got to be one of the most cold and heartless sentences I have ever read.

And to these other moronic posters who claim that life doesn't exist in the womb, just a cluster of cells, have you ever SEEN an abortion? Go watch a video of a later term abortion where the HUMAN BEING cries in pain and trys to get away as they are chopped up and sucked out. So LIFE to you is only when they are on the outside? If so, go see a video of a PARTIAL BIRTH abortion or, in some case, an abortion where the baby has actually been delivered.

My god, the insanity of some of these responses is truly heartbreaking.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Originally posted by djusdjus
You can't stop people from screwing, but you can stop the results of that loveless act.

This has got to be one of the most cold and heartless sentences I have ever read.

And to these other moronic posters who claim that life doesn't exist in the womb, just a cluster of cells, have you ever SEEN an abortion? Go watch a video of a later term abortion where the HUMAN BEING cries in pain and trys to get away as they are chopped up and sucked out. So LIFE to you is only when they are on the outside? If so, go see a video of a PARTIAL BIRTH abortion or, in some case, an abortion where the baby has actually been delivered.

My god, the insanity of some of these responses is truly heartbreaking.

There is no insanity in dealing with the real world and real problems and real burdens on a society that is all of us.

Insanity comes in the form of emotional attacks on people for decisions they make in their lives that really have no bearing on yorus and fall within rule of law 100%

there is nothing more cold and heartless than not caring and not giving enough of a sod to be responsible to yourself and those around you.

There is nothing more cold and heartless than attempting to force someone into a situation they are incapable of dealing with because of your personal or institutionally established beliefs.

Your beliefs have zero bearing on rule of law. Thankfully, rule of law is drawn from objective realism and not some religious superstition or deluded idea about who and what human beings are.

IN other words, keep your snide self righteous sanctimonious spew to yourself.

I don't think the government should cover abortions unless it's a case of rape or incest. There are some people in this world who shouldn't have children because they don't do a good job taking of the children they already have.

There is no reason why there should be unwanted babies in this world. People just need to be more careful and think before they decide to have a child that they can't even support.

reply to post by djusdjus


So belief in life makes me self-righteous? Get over yourself.

Unfortuantely, we'l have to agree to disagree. I believe that ALL life is sacred. You, however, only believe that life is sacred when it is convienent to you and to society. Shame.

Why is it always the female whom is targeted. It does take two to make a baby you know. While some posters are deflaming a mothers right to have an abortion, what about the fathers, surely they have some responsibility for this also. Maybe they should be the ones whom are forced to pay for the abortions since, some in here, seem hell bent on blaming the mothers.

But off course it is fine for males to go around making women pregnant without having to think about the responsibilities that come along with it. Oh it is not the mans fault

I'm certainly not in favor of abortion personally, but I am also not in favor of spending thousands and thousands of my tax dollars RAISING the "non-terminated" children as you call them.

Welfare, for SOME, has turned into a "every baby buys me more time" kind of program. Personally, I am sick of supporting people that blatantly take advantage of a situation. The system was not designed to be income, it was designed to prevent hunger and homelessness -- during SHORT periods of difficulty.

Looking at the numbers, I'd rather pay for someone's abortion than pay to take care of the child for the rest of his/her life. While I agree that people need to take more responsibility when they conceive a child, I think there are some people that would rather have the baby and collect government assistance, than spend their own $200 to have an abortion.

reply to post by lpowell0627


Then should it not be both sides responisibility, rather than just the mothers respomnsibility?

To me the father should be forced to contribute to the abortion, rather than having either the whole responsibility falling on the mother or tha taxpayer.

Blaming this all on the mother to me is wrong, after all it takes two to concieve a child.

And the last point I will make on this is that our current law legalizes abortion and if someone makes that choice, no matter how wrong I feel it is, then they will have to deal with that.

But, I do not want, as a taxpayer, to be held accountable financially to subsidizing poor choices that result in termination of LIFE. You will now be dragging me into something I want no part of.

No one cent of federal money should ever touch Planned Parenthood or any facility or orginization that asists, arranges or performs abortions. This should be banned and a provision stating such should be in any (and they're all crap) health care bill.

The Constitution clearly states we have a right to life. I don't believe for a second that our founders would have ever thought that life didn't exist in the womb.

So many will have so much to explain and give and account for what they have done one day.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
But, I do not want, as a taxpayer, to be held accountable financially to subsidizing poor choices that result in termination of LIFE. You will now be dragging me into something I want no part of.

Many felt that way about subsidizing the poor choices that resulted in the termination of at least tens of thousands of lives. They were dragged into two wars that they wanted no part of. I wonder what makes you think that you're special in this regard.

Abortion is legal. Whether you or I like it or not. Sometimes it's a result of poor choices, sometimes not. In any case, this legal, medical procedure should be treated the same as any other legal, medical procedure or treatment.

Until we, the people, are permitted to pick and choose where we want all of our taxes to go, I believe that removing abortion from covered medical procedures is nothing short of discrimination and an attempt to legislate morality. If we were permitted to choose, I'm certain that some would disallow birth control, family planning and impotency drugs for men. How far do you wish to take this "selective tax paying"?

So, to answer the question of the original post: Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? My answer is that it is a legal, medical procedure. And therefore, if our taxes are paying for other legal medical procedures, then yes. Absolutely.

When this reform comes, people will go to the docs for an ass itch.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
And the last point I will make on this is that our current law legalizes abortion and if someone makes that choice, no matter how wrong I feel it is, then they will have to deal with that.

But, I do not want, as a taxpayer, to be held accountable financially to subsidizing poor choices that result in termination of LIFE. You will now be dragging me into something I want no part of.

No one cent of federal money should ever touch Planned Parenthood or any facility or orginization that asists, arranges or performs abortions. This should be banned and a provision stating such should be in any (and they're all crap) health care bill.

The Constitution clearly states we have a right to life. I don't believe for a second that our founders would have ever thought that life didn't exist in the womb.

So many will have so much to explain and give and account for what they have done one day.

You need to understand that you can't pick and choose. You pay your taxes into a pool and it is distributed from that pool.

Your self righteousness is in your position of not only belief but your apparent wanting to force your belief onto someone else. Your belief doesn't matter in established law. You wanna change that? Vote for someone who supports your belief and ultimately will act to legislate something that is abiding by it.

What you need to recognize though is that this process has already taken place and rule of law outweighs your belief system.

What about the fathers? What about them? Why didn't they wear a condom? What if the woman who is having the abortion is raped? Should she be forced to carry the baby to term and then let it go for adoption and then what? What about her psychological needs?

Sanctity of life is one thing, but misconstrued beliefs and attempting to force them onto someone is fascist in spirit.

But like I said, you're welcome to place your vote in your hopes that someone is on the same thought level as you that can bring change.

It is a democratic society after all. I would remind you again though that it's already been done and those who support your belief have failed while those who support the right thing to do (maybe not in all circumstances) have not failed and have persevered after years of fighting for the right to make a choice for themselves whether or not they want to bring a child into the world.

Anyway, anti-abortionist bleating in a wind storm of reason will eventually no longer be around as education eradicates their simplistic and emotional, irrational and illogical thought forms are turned to dust and dispersed into nothingness once and for all.



cold and heartless enough for you? Thos are nothing but empty and stupid words aimed from an emotional context with zero knowledge of who I am or what I believe in. Ergo the "self righteous and sanctimonious" remark.

people aren't ignorant because they disagree with your point of view. Perhaps you are ignorant for not recognizing that we all don't hold the same view? Apparently the majority of us don't believe what you believe and if we did, it would be different wouldn't it?



deal with that.




But that you can't see that is for your to deal with.

Originally posted by Bratac

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
But, I do not want, as a taxpayer, to be held accountable financially to subsidizing poor choices that result in termination of LIFE. You will now be dragging me into something I want no part of.

Many felt that way about subsidizing the poor choices that resulted in the termination of at least tens of thousands of lives. They were dragged into two wars that they wanted no part of. I wonder what makes you think that you're special in this regard.

Abortion is legal. Whether you or I like it or not. Sometimes it's a result of poor choices, sometimes not. In any case, this legal, medical procedure should be treated the same as any other legal, medical procedure or treatment.

Until we, the people, are permitted to pick and choose where we want all of our taxes to go, I believe that removing abortion from covered medical procedures is nothing short of discrimination and an attempt to legislate morality. If we were permitted to choose, I'm certain that some would disallow birth control, family planning and impotency drugs for men. How far do you wish to take this "selective tax paying"?

So, to answer the question of the original post: Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? My answer is that it is a legal, medical procedure. And therefore, if our taxes are paying for other legal medical procedures, then yes. Absolutely.

I think a part of us needs to be inhuman in order to justify this "medical" procedure. And if ensuring that a child who has no say-so in any decision to be murdered is saved makes me discriminatory, then so be it. I'd rather have that on my conscious than being partly responsible for the murder of millions of children.

I'm not an advocate of war, but providing for the common defense is outlined in the Constitution. The government has a right in this regard. And we have the right to protest this action if we deem it wrong. You can't equate abortion (not a government right) to military action. Well, you probably can if you consider a fetus just a bunch of cells and abortion is just another medical procedure. Tell me, does a tumor scream in pain when it is cut out of your body?

How 'bout this. Why don't we give vasectomies and tubalagations to those who we feel are not in the correct demographic group in order to bring a child into this world. Then they could copulate as much as they wanted without fear of pregnancy. And, as a benefit, we'd be thining out certain demographics that others feel would provide no benefit to raising a child in.

And, perhaps, the government should set some standards by which these people would need to meet in order to have the above procedures reversed so that they could now concieve and how many children you could have.

Maybe we ought to spend federal tax dollars on genetic screening to ensure that the child is free from genetic defects which would be a drain on society and the propsed health care system.

How far down the slippery slope are you willing to travel?