Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? I don't think so!

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by HotSauce

 

feminist: I HAVE A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.

america: to each his own. be free.

feminist: NOW PAY FOR IT.

___

wow wow wow there, it is not just a feminist movement that are pro abortion and that is a very generalised statement you are making there. I'm from the UK so free health care is not new to us, and this does include abortions, there are guidelines to this and I think it is fair enough. If you can't afford an abortion that you feel is needed then prey tell how are you to afford the very child that you are about to give birth to. This is not a feminist debate, it's a human debate. The OP is clearly against abortion, overwhelming bias, anyway my point is, why not have it on the NHS you think it is all about underage teens using protection and never give any thought to victims of rape or domestic abuse. But hey I don't live in the US, I do however know that NHS abortions have never bothered me in the least. You say WE pay for it, people who have paid their taxes will be using these services too, and regardless of what your money goes to, it'll be leaving your pay check anyway.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Well as a male I gotta side with galatea (many pages back)

Isn't my decision or choice what she does with her body. To me that baby isn't viable life until it can live outside...until then it is part of her. Now I saw someone who posted...page 2 or 3 I think that abortions raise cancer stats tenfold. So does smoking yet we allow that...kind of a bad argument in this case I think

Male...prochoice...that's me..the nice part is we live in a country where you are free to hate me for being that way.

-Kyo

Hey ya know what, if a woman can't afford her own abortion, then SHE isn't financially viable.

If she can't take responsibility for her own action where sex as we all should know, can have unwanted or un-planned consequences or blessings whichever you prefer, but so does being a responsible drinker and the chances you take drinking for the pleasure of that is no different than the chances you take for the pleasure of sex, yet I don't think we should have to pay for every drunk drivers unwanted consequences just because they think they have a right to them and chose to be stupid or just plane unlucky. Life isn't fair and just saying people are going to drink is no better an argument than saying people are going to have sex.

Yeah, so what? The argument is the same and none of us should be held accountable for what a woman chooses to do in bed at the same time she insists we have no say in the matter. Then I say the hell we don't, not if we are paying for your plan to erase the whole incident and destroy the evidence in a tax subsidized homicide. Some of us don't want to live with that on our concience even if she has the intestinal fortitude to stomach that herself.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Think about the 15 year old girls who made a mistake and got pregnant. They don't want to tell their strict or maybe even abusive parents to take them and pay hundreds to get an abortion not to mention the humility factor.

How about..

Every girl under 20 is entitled 1 free abortion payed by the taxpayers. If you end up getting pregnant again, no-one pays for your abortion. If your over 20 you can pay for your abortion.

I think that system would be entirely fair, that way theres not hookers in the ghetto going to the abortion clinic once a month for free.

Without abortions what would we put in the vaccines!? Jokes.

*edit to add in*

Stop crying about the unborn, hundreds of thousands in the middle east are getting slaughtered by us. Guess what? YOUR paying for it.




[edit on 11-11-2009 by The_Zomar]

reply to post by galatea


Here's a story of a woman who did JUST that..... had multiple abortions and admits to being an abortion addict.

www.2secondsfaster.com...

I don't think this is very common, but just wanted to let you know it does happen.

In response to the OP, I do NOT want my tax dollars to fund abortions. I'm sorry, I have a hard time feeling empathy for a woman who gets knocked up and then decides it's not really what she wanted. Even for the instance of rape or incest, I don't agree that a baby, born or not yet born, should have it's life ended by no fault of it's own. Call me judgemental or closed minded, but that's just my view on it. And I find it funny that several posters on here are saying you can't consider a fetus a child. Hmmmm, I know when I got pregnant, I wasn't excited that I was pregnant with a fetus, I was happy I was pregnant with a baby! Also, if a pregnant woman is murdered, isn't is considered a double homicide? Now, why would that be if the baby is not really a person at all?

Ahh yes, the hot headed abortion debate.
Lets start by breaking this down on a financial POV. Anyone who can afford it will likely pay for the abortion themselves - Considering that going private is quicker. So that leads me to believe that anyone using tax payers money to pay for an abortion is probably poor and on the bottom end of society.
It would cost more in tax payers money to pay for the raising of a child. Now, the kid will probably grow up in a rough area with no opportunity to move up the scale unless its parents are extremely dedicated which i feel is unlikely. By not paying for the abortion all your really giving this child a chance at is failing miserably. Your practically inflicting a worthless life upon it.
And you know what? Yeah, it is my body. If i get knocked up it is half my fault. If i cant pay, the NHS should, you know why? because i'm a 20 year old whose trying to make ends meet. Its nothing to do with how much responsibility i have. Why should i keep a child i don’t want only to let it grow while i resent it for stealing my life? I don’t want to be a parent, but i'm not going to avoid sex.

The only thing that really pisses me off is when people use abortion as a contraception. Now THATS wrong.

We've payed for worse things.

Many Christian organizations organize and finance homes for "unwanted children" around the world, funding these operations with the free-will donations of parishoners. No public funds are used in these humanitarian enterprises.

Why doesn't the so-called women's liberation groups fund abortions for the poor using their resources? It's probably a little harder to encourage your membership to support, with hard earned cash, the killing of children not yet born. So, in heroic manner associated with their bankrupt values, they propose to let you and I foot the bill for the carnage.

Originally posted by wdkirk

Originally posted by HotSauce
.......to not only vacuum cleaner out their babies........
[edit on 10-11-2009 by HotSauce]

Nice technical term.

This sums up the entire position of the OP.

unfortunatly, its accurate.

Originally posted by Theprimevoyager
We've payed for worse things.

Like $4 trillion to foreign banks and $5 Trillion to fund the war.

Now that's a lotta abortions

reply to post by orangetom1999


You seem to have an extraordinary grasp of what I am going to call the battle beyond our physical realm and wouldn't be surprised if you were not a member of some underground Christian organization teaching the quasi spiritual political ramifications of the Noahide laws and where we are headed with all that.

I don't see the drama you do however, I see melodramatic dead people and I am not talking about the dead from the abortions. Im talking about you, talking to dead people. I hope my outrage is seen as outrage as it is the only reasonable response to what should have been expressed as outrage by more and many a long time before it got this far.

Impressive stuff you post Mr. Tom

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

We should also outlaw masturbation, because all those poor little sperm aren't going to get a chance to seed an egg! OUTLAW MASTURBATION! NO innocent SPERM SHOULD HAVE TO DIE!

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Ahh yes, the hot headed abortion debate.
Lets start by breaking this down on a financial POV. Anyone who can afford it will likely pay for the abortion themselves - Considering that going private is quicker. So that leads me to believe that anyone using tax payers money to pay for an abortion is probably poor and on the bottom end of society.
It would cost more in tax payers money to pay for the raising of a child. Now, the kid will probably grow up in a rough area with no opportunity to move up the scale unless its parents are extremely dedicated which i feel is unlikely. By not paying for the abortion all your really giving this child a chance at is failing miserably. Your practically inflicting a worthless life upon it.
And you know what? Yeah, it is my body. If i get knocked up it is half my fault. If i cant pay, the NHS should, you know why? because i'm a 20 year old whose trying to make ends meet. Its nothing to do with how much responsibility i have. Why should i keep a child i don’t want only to let it grow while i resent it for stealing my life? I don’t want to be a parent, but i'm not going to avoid sex.

The only thing that really pisses me off is when people use abortion as a contraception. Now THATS wrong.

I have no empathy for people who shirk responsibility because they are trying to make ends meet. Your post shows me how emotionally immature you are (resent it for stealing my life?) and it would be far better for you to be sterilized until such time that you are in a position to financially afford a child and are mature enough not to resent it.

reply to post by washingtonsghost


Have you been watching "Legally Blonde" again?

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by concernedcitizan

 

Wow so you would rather pay for an unfortunate childs life to end more than you would be for paying to defend your country? To each his own I guess, but I must say I don't undertand or agree with your logic.

The defense department was once known as the war department, even though it's role both then and now is exactly the same. Why did they change the name? Well, some people are so simple-minded that they assume the "defense department" would never operate an unprovoked war of aggression. Iraq was not a threat to the United States period. They had no WMDs and it cost the American taxpayer more than $3 trillion dollars.

Blowing up civilians in the middle east is not going to discourage terrorism. Why? Because when you kill a guy's whole family, you leave him with nothing to lose and a motive for revenge. We brought terrorism to Iraq that did not exist prior to the invasion.

Dead innocent civilians in Iraq, whether killed by us or foreign terrorists trying to make a name for themselves, do not make the United States safer. Please drop the childish rhetoric. No one is buying it anymore. When you are willing to wipe out millions of Muslims with no distinction been the innocent and guilty, you're compassion for the unborn is loses all credibility.

I seriously cannot understand neocon logic. You want children to be born but you don't care if they die because they don't have health insurance. You want children to be born but if they become Muslim, you don't care if they are blown to pieces in Gaza.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by andrewh7]

[edit on 11-11-2009 by andrewh7]

Well I for one can't even attempt at addressing the issue since the title its framed in is so skewed that its a blatant attempt at stirring the moral pot.

If its a medical procedure and has health and wellbeing implications, then it should be covered. Interpret health and wellbeing anyway you want - lawyers always do, which is what makes the court system so fun! no one is wrong if you can argue well enough.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
Hotsauce i'm still waiting on your source to back up this claim

That is very rare though. Most abortions are due to the fact that having a child would be inconvieient to the mothers future life.

It's your job to back up your claims with sources.

Well if you would read every post instea of jumping aheadyou would find the link thatI gave to the info you are looking for. But just to sumarize, 78% of all abortions are a matter of convenience for the mother.

This is just an opinionated forum. There is no right or wrong here. The issue is presented over and over again by our elite political windbags to keep us distracted and divided. And it works time and time again.

i think its been said already but i'll say it again.

1. The gov will do whatever it wants with your money. The abortion issue is used to involve you emotionally even though they have already made up their minds. If the gov gave a hoot about people we would not have a 6-month plus debate on a useless public option for health care.

2. If you abhor abortion, then maybe you should abhor war more. Many more people are lost to the violence and innocent killing of war. And most if not all of the wars have been hoisted upon countries for nefarious reasons. The largest being the money to be made.

3. If your conscious is bothered by spending money on abortions then you should consider meditating to understand the unfairness and harshness of life. How would you care to die...in your sleep or in a violent or suffering manner??

Originally posted by washingtonsghost
We should also outlaw masturbation, because all those poor little sperm aren't going to get a chance to seed an egg! OUTLAW MASTURBATION! NO innocent SPERM SHOULD HAVE TO DIE!

We should also ban alcohol because drinking too much of it makes reproduction impossible. How many babies were never conceived because a guy drank too much, was unable to perform, and simply passed out. How many more children must be winked out of existence because of booze? Ban it!

/s

Originally posted by die_another_day
When this reform comes, people will go to the docs for an ass itch.

YES! If they force my to buy in or get fined/go to jail, then yes I will run to the doctor every time my ass itches or my farts do not come out at the right pitch.

Originally posted by Kerry_Knight
Yes and we know this is true because we went back in time and reversed Roe VS Wade and all those aborted children were alive and they all became criminals when compared to the stats we use to assume they wouldn't have if they had lived before the time travel right?

I mean how can you possibly attribute this to abortion? Hell I guess if we start killing the kids that aren't about to be aborted, what can we come up with there? We will see a drop in Job creation and entrepreneurial endeavor?

Very good point. For all we know crime has dropped because of the two Gulf Wars and the one if Afghanistan.