World’s third largest ice store vanishing!

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

Well lets all go back to the 16th century because some f'ing ice melted. There may well be global warming, but can you prove it is going to be any better or worse for humans than the temp 50 years ago.

Truth is the whole solar system has shown signs of warming, so maybe it has to do with Sun activity and there isn't a darn thing we can do about it, except embrace change and get a nice tan in places where we couldn't before.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by HotSauce]

Yeah I tend to agree with you, the polar caps on mars did not melt
due to SUV's here on Earth.

Mars Ice caps melting pointing to solar increase

I think we need to get off oil for many reasons, and good work is being
done in that direction.

Also with the global slowdown over 1,000 cargo ships are sitting
cold iron off the coasts of Singapore and Subic Bay.

Emissions are down a bit, and hopefully now that Cold Fusion is
experimentally confirmed we can get China to stop building
a coal based power plant every cpl of weeks.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by wx4caster

i am arguing the point that humans have little to no effect on it.

What does that even matter and why is it worth arguing about anyway?
If it's happening, it's happening.

that is simply not going to stop it.

Then what are we gonna do about it? Argue our way to coolness?

Maybe we ought to learn to deal with it sooner or later.
Who's evers fault it is! Just suggesting is all.
No need to call me names too.
Of course its not our fault, what ever is?

reply to post by dodadoom


lol no more name calling for me thanks

what can we do about it? nothing really, other than as you said, educate ourselves.

we need to understand that in a few decades to a few hundred years we are going to have to learn to adapt our crops to new places and learn to grow different things in the old places. we are going to be learning as it occurs of course, but humans are flexible and will adapt and overcome.

or we could move to mars...

reply to post by wx4caster

LOL! Thanks for the namecalling free reply!

but humans are flexible and will adapt and overcome.

I hope you are right, after all that is our only recourse I'm afraid.

Not much comfort in that prospect, but it's better than nothin' I suppose!
Carry on!

Right.. because in the temperature fluctuations of our past, which have 10s of thousands of years between them.. sometimes 100s of thousands of years, we just happen to be in such a flux just now, in the last 100 years, during this industrial surge on our planet.

Couldn't POSSIBLY be us eh? And yea.. riiiight.. the sun is just NOW happening to be doing weird things. This last 100 years is a minuscule, tiny blip in the life of our planet, and yet, amazingly, the sun is just now doing wonky things. Amazing coincidence!

Even if we were not positive the ways we were spewing CO2 into the atmosphere was causing this, should we not err on the side of caution? Or just say "hell with it!" and let all the glaciers melt, the ice melt, the oceans rise, and see what happens?

The irresponsibility and lack of concern about this just staggers me.

The irresponsibility and lack of concern about this just staggers me

It is probably just fear.
But it may also be as simple as an unwillingness to take any responsibility.

If it was proven related to what we are doing, that means our conscience
would force us to live differently. One would hope anyway.
We certainly would not even consider doing that!
Hence also the continuing economic crash thats always someone elses fault.....
Never ours for not living within our means and conserving what we have left.....whos evers fault it is again, of course!

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Haven't you heard? The Americans have decided global warming is a hoax and the Earth is actually cooling. If the American public has something to say about science, surely it must be true!

If all the ice on the planet disappeared over night, global warming would still be viewed as a leftist conspiracy in the only country that can lead the rest of the developed world by example.

Take a good look at those glaciers, or what's left of them, we're the last generation to lay eyes on them.

Sigh

Yet the Glacial coverage has increased in Alaska and Antarctica, and temperatures at certain sites in the latter have reached 1200 year lows. Can you explain that in your facetious manner?

Also, in regards to China:

On October 22, an accord was signed by Xie Zhenhua, China's vice minister at the National Development and Reform Commission, and Jairam Ramesh, India's environment minister, in New Delhi. The memorandum provides an alternative framework to counter pressure from America and Europe to adopt mandatory limits on greenhouse gas emissions in a new UN treaty. The two Asian powers will collaborate on the development of renewable power projects and improved energy efficiency programs, while rejecting any outside mandates that would slow economic growth.
...
It is easier to stay independent of the climate paranoia if one does not believe the planet is in peril. Xiao Ziniu, director general of the Beijing Climate Centre, told the British Guardian newspaper recently that "There is no agreed conclusion about how much change is dangerous....Whether the climate turns warmer or cooler, there are both positive and negative effects....In Chinese history, there have been many periods warmer than today." He disputed the disaster warnings of the UNIPCC, saying, "The accuracy of the prediction is very low because the climate is affected by many mechanisms we do not fully understand."

An article published in China's Science Times on September 7 cited a study done by Ding Zhongli, vice president of the Science Academy of China. It argued that there is no solid scientific evidence to strictly correlate global temperature rise and CO2 concentrations. Professor Ding noted that some geologists believe that global temperature is related to solar activities and glacial periods, meaning human activity is only one factor that can cause climate change. "Up to now not a single scientist has figured out the weight ratio of each factor on global temperature change," he wrote.

The Global Warming hoax is a favorite subject of mine. It really is.

I am surprised at some responses actually and some key things missed.

To those that believe in the hoax called Global Warming....care to explain the receding of all major Ice Ages this planet had? They occurred way before man ever built it's first smokestack factory.

I'll be patiently waiting for an answer.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by PenandSword]

PS! Does anyone here remember the 'Acid Rain' hoax? What happened to that? Oh that's right....it morphed into the Globull Warming hoax.

Carry on you slaves to deceit!

Originally posted by np6888
reply to post by wx4caster

 

So you're saying that wiki and the other 180 countries are all conspirators?

I doubt anyone says or believes that.

"Wiki" is an open source of general information to which almost anyone can "contribute." Even with completely false data. This was recently proven with an intentional post of misinformation that was picked up as reliable by many MSM "sources."

As for "the 180" signatory countries to the Kyoto Protocol, most have completely failed to comply. CO2 DID NOT go down in any of them as a result of their participation. (In some, global recession caused lower consumption and energy demands.)

In the EU, CO2 INCREASED over 2% from pre-treaty levels. Overrall CO2 emissions among the signatories increased an average of 1.94% in 2008 over 2007.

Global emissions have RISEN for 10 straight years, although the rates of increase in the US have FALLEN.

In fact, the German renewable energy industry institute reports that emissions in 2008 were 40% higher than the 1990 Kyoto baseline.
www.reuters.com...

Deny ignorance.

jw

For all the people who are panicking that the world is melting and that we will be the last people to see Glaciers, this should make you feel better.

This is a list of Glaciers that have been growing (your Al Gore films usually don’t mention these ones).

Here is a start on the "Growing" list... which is in fact, growing itself.

Warming, Cooling, whatever, they Earth and many other of the planets are going to through a natural cycle.

Mikey


[edit on 9/11/2009 by Mikey84]

This is depressing.


I hate humanity.

Wow, the ignorance on this topic is off the charts! Reading some of these replies actually makes me sick. Like HotSauce, that guy needs to be deported to China maybe then he will understand this topic more clearly.

Ok, let me lay it down in layman's terms so you people can fathom something that seems to be out of reach for you.

Before humans existed, the Earth dealt with "X" amount of CO2. Now that humans exist and burn fossil fuel for just about everything, the Earth is dealing with an additional amount of CO2, "Y", and it is steadily increasing.

X + Y = Z

The total amount "Z" is greater than the original amount "X".

Z > X

This means Earth has more CO2 then it had without humans. That also means Earth has CHANGED and humans caused the change. That is the cause, now lets find out the effect.

With simple scientific experiments that you can do at home, if you wish, you can find out that CO2 actually does trap heat like a greenhouse. That is why it is called a greenhouse gas. Actually, Earth and it's atmosphere is basically a big greenhouse.

www.is.wayne.edu

www.espere.net...

So, scientifically, that means humans are adding to (effecting) Earths ability to trap heat. That is why Global Warming is predicted.

However, when you start warming certain areas of Earth it causes major weather fluctuations all over the world. That is why it is called Global Climate change.

Global warming can cause temporary global cooling. Have you ever heard of a evaporative cooler? The excess heat caused by global warming will melt ice and evaporate more water. The evaporation will cool the surrounding air, and cause "global cooling" but only temporarily.

Also, when ice melts, the cold melt-water mixes with warm water and effectively cools the warm water. The colder water then cools the air above it, and other things.

Scientifically, it is all TRUE. Global Climate Change is a real threat, and human ARE effecting the Earth. Seriously, we already know how to locally control weather by spraying chemicals in the air, and also by cloud seeding. The Earth is very reactive, and easily manipulated, and very fragile.

On top of that, we have to deal with solar weather changes that also effect Earth's weather...

If you want to sit back and not have a care in the world for the continuation of human beings on Earth then so be it. Just stay out of the way of people who are trying to preserve the future of mankind.

Yes, there may be people trying to cash in on this very real threat. People do that all the time, they try to make money off of fear and take advantage of bad situations. However, that doesn't mean the fear and bad situation is completely made up.

Really, do some real scientific research, experiments, calculations, and you will find out that human waste (pollution) is effecting our Earth, and something needs to be done about it.

Even if you don't believe everything I said is scientifically logical, you still have to worry about pollution poisoning humans.

Seriously, WAKE UP. Not everything is a lie, not everything is a conspiracy.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by ALLis0NE]

fixed link


[edit on 9-11-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by ALLis0NE

Very nice post! Nice to see evaporative cooling mentioned!

However, I am sure now you will get called names and bashed around
and it will probably include something to do with Al Gore!
Not sure why exactly.
I have yet to see this post by Al that everyone gets their shorts in a bunch over...... Maybe he was banned?

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by ALLis0NE

 

Very nice post! Nice to see evaporative cooling mentioned!

Thanks. Yes, I like this quote from the evaporative cooling wiki page:

Evaporative cooling has recently been observed to operate on a planetary scale on Pluto, where it has sometimes been called an anti-greenhouse effect.

Anti-greenhouse effect... hmmm... maybe we can use this to our advantage?

Originally posted by dodadoom
However, I am sure now you will get called names and bashed around
and it will probably include something to do with Al Gore!
Not sure why exactly.

Yes, I can see that inevitable future too. I am prepared for it.

AL Gore He didn't invent global warming, but the blind can't see that, and they think he did. They are too focused on the conspiracy and they lost contact with reality.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Wow, the ignorance on this topic is off the charts! Reading some of these replies actually makes me sick. Like HotSauce, that guy needs to be deported to China maybe then he will understand this topic more clearly.

Ok, let me lay it down in layman's terms so you people can fathom something that seems to be out of reach for you.

Before humans existed, the Earth dealt with "X" amount of CO2. Now that humans exist and burn fossil fuel for just about everything, the Earth is dealing with an additional amount of CO2, "Y", and it is steadily increasing.

X + Y = Z

The total amount "Z" is greater than the original amount "X".

Z > X

This means Earth has more CO2 then it had without humans. That also means Earth has CHANGED and humans caused the change. That is the cause, now lets find out the effect.

actually earth has had higher levels of co2 in the atmosphere before this time. i have alerady posted this. look beyond the last few thousand years at data collected from ice core samples

With simple scientific experiments that you can do at home, if you wish, you can find out that CO2 actually does trap heat like a greenhouse. That is why it is called a greenhouse gas. Actually, Earth and it's atmosphere is basically a big greenhouse.

www.is.wayne.edu

www.espere.net...

co2 is not the only gas that traps heat. the greenhouse effect that you speak of is caused by shortwave solar radiation penetrating the earths atmosphere due to its higher energies, being absorbed by the earth and reemitted as longwave radiation at lower energies. these lower energies are unable to escape through the atmosphere and thus warms the earth as it is circulated back and forth.

So, scientifically, that means humans are adding to (effecting) Earths ability to trap heat. That is why Global Warming is predicted.

However, when you start warming certain areas of Earth it causes major weather fluctuations all over the world. That is why it is called Global Climate change.

Global warming can cause temporary global cooling. Have you ever heard of a evaporative cooler? The excess heat caused by global warming will melt ice and evaporate more water. The evaporation will cool the surrounding air, and cause "global cooling" but only temporarily.

Also, when ice melts, the cold melt-water mixes with warm water and effectively cools the warm water. The colder water then cools the air above it, and other things.

when a particle of water vapor cools, it warms the surrounding atmosphere. this is a process called latent heat release. you have a dim understanding of energy transfer processes in the atmosphere. evaporative cooling is cause by WARMING water to a vaporous form, which absorbs latent heat from the surrounding atmophere. look it up

Scientifically, it is all TRUE. Global Climate Change is a real threat, and human ARE effecting the Earth. Seriously, we already know how to locally control weather by spraying chemicals in the air, and also by cloud seeding. The Earth is very reactive, and easily manipulated, and very fragile.

silver nitrate was tried as a cloud seeding process in order to weaken tropical storms. we actually found that natural processes are very resiliant after the seeding material was quickly shed from the system. again you are illinformed

On top of that, we have to deal with solar weather changes that also effect Earth's weather...

solar changes are not caused by humans. we have nothing to do with the sun or the amount of radiation that is being emitted by it.

If you want to sit back and not have a care in the world for the continuation of human beings on Earth then so be it. Just stay out of the way of people who are trying to preserve the future of mankind.

Yes, there may be people trying to cash in on this very real threat. People do that all the time, they try to make money off of fear and take advantage of bad situations. However, that doesn't mean the fear and bad situation is completely made up.

Really, do some real scientific research, experiments, calculations, and you will find out that human waste (pollution) is effecting our Earth, and something needs to be done about it.

Even if you don't believe everything I said is scientifically logical, you still have to worry about pollution poisoning humans.

Seriously, WAKE UP. Not everything is a lie, not everything is a conspiracy.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by ALLis0NE]

fixed link


[edit on 9-11-2009 by ALLis0NE]

i agree that pollution is a problem. but it is not causing global warming. global warming is a natural process. look at page 5 of this discussion for the links and other material i provided. i challenge you to provide some of your own evidence described in your own words that demonstrate to me that you have an understanding of atmospheric processes.

Global Warming IS REAL!

Can't wait to see what fascinating discoveries they find underneath the melting ice.

It's interesting to think that, as modern and high tech as we are, we aren't too sure about our history here on this earth.

Amazing things are yet ahead to be discovered.

reply to post by genius/idoit


Posting 2 links to mainstream media outlets owned by the same corporations with the same agenda, and 1 link to a place called "Tree Hugger" is really going to get you lit up at ATS.