Alien Abduction: An astral phenomenon?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f4bd79b7074d.jpg[/atsimg]

I would like to discuss the theory and idea that "Alien Abductions" are a spectral-phenomenon, or to use a word people are more familiar with, an astral-phenomenon. That would mean it...

a)...is not an extraterrestrial phenomenon (although I am not implying that extraterrestrials and beings on other planets dont exist. I firmly believe they do)

b)...is not a mere hallucinatory or psychiatric delusion (although I am not implying that such delusion dont exist. I firmly believe they do)

c)...is not the result of secret Government Experimentation (although I am not implying that Government Experimentaiton on humans doesnt exist. I believe it does).

Every Culture/Religion knows astral-beings and knows that they interact from another, non-physical (astral) plane with humans in either benevolent or malevolent ways. In Hinduism and Buddhism there are the Devas and Asuras in Christianity the Equivalent Angels and Demons, in Tribal Religions they are called good and bad Spirits. Actually there is hardly a Religion that does not mention them. In the middle-ages various beings are referred to as Fairies, Dwarves, Goblins, etc. What did they do? They played tricks on and abducted people. Or they visited them at night and performed experiments and forced sex. Here is an image from that time, depicting a "Hag" harrassing a woman at night:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/80ae4624dc9b.jpg[/atsimg]

So why do I think that the "Grays" are not actually ETs but astral-beings? Because:

* Almost all Abduction accounts take place in the bedroom in states of sleep, half-sleep, half-waking, etc. The only way the astral-world is accesible is in a state between waking and sleeping.

* Some Abductees talk of sleep-paralysis, which is a telltale-sign of an astral-experience.

* The only physical evidence that ever shows up is related to the physical body (scars, wounds, rashes). The astral-level, in conjunction with the mind is able to create such phenomena (if the mind is convinced of its reality) but unlikely to have any stronger influence on the physical realm.

* The actions performed are not immediately recognizable as those we might associate benevolence or a species that is ethically highly advanced with. Holding people against their will is more typical of astral-entities.

There is a more important reason I think alien-abductions may not be alien-abductions but astral-phenomenon: Because I experienced abductions myself, as a child. And I also experienced astral-projection. And sleep-paralysis. And they all tied in with each other. And the experiences were very real, even horrifying, but they did not seem to take place in the same reality as waking-life. And I didnt seem able to bring back evidence of the experiences as they all happened at night.

Now Im still willing to believe that these are ET-dudes if someone will show me abduction-experiences that took place in broad daylight with no altered-state involved. And Im still willing to believe that these beings may be benevolent, although that is not really the "vibe" one gets from them (it remains to be seen whether they are friend or foe).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1f79d7b14ea9.jpg[/atsimg]

The only problem with my theory is that Ive also seen UFOs in my lifetime. Flying silver discs. And Im pretty sure those were not astral but physical because I saw them in glaring, wide-awake daylight, not in that shadowy land of halfsleep. Unless the UFOs and the Grays are not related ...because I did not see those flying disc in the same years I had those abduction-experiences. I dont have any ET-experiences since childhood. But I do remember them and can re-count most of what happened without the need for hypnosis.

So what I am saying is that these are "aliens", but maybe not in the sense we understand the term "aliens"...

Thoughts?



[edit on 29-5-2010 by Skyfloating]

I think that most of them there probly some sort of night trama or sleep parayalsis. But theres still ones you cant rub off as that. People driving in cars, out walking... bla bla bla and stuff with physical evidence as well

good post. i tend to agree with most of what you said. having had some really weird experiences while sleeping, and knowing that i was never "taken" from my room, having things done on the astral plane makes sense.

as to the UFO aspect, i truly believe ufos didn't exist until the 40's, and are a direct result of Nazi design with perhaps information on how to build them with from astral beings.

Originally posted by superdebz
But theres still ones you cant rub off as that. People driving in cars, out walking... bla bla bla and stuff with physical evidence as well

But are the broad-daylight abductions really by Grays though? Ive heard of other species abducting people in daylight, but not Grays...(?)

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Wow, awesome thread. I think you make a valid argument. Some more examples such as the Hag, would be interesting to hear.

Since there is no strong evidence of an ET/US agreement to exchange technology for human experiment , I think your explanation is pretty reasonable.

Just as most UFO photos are grainy and out of focus, most abduction cases are missing hard evidence and cold hard facts.

There has NEVER been a missing person, kidnapping, or abduction case with the conclusion: the victim was abducted by beings not from this earth and taken aboard a space craft.

If such a case exists, please point me in the right direction.

It is the first time i see this theory posted on this forum. Indeed, a lot of abductions are astral in nature. It's all part of the domination of the astral sphere on the human race.

When humans are abducted and they can remember the event taking place, it is astral in nature. As for the other kinds of abductions, the memory of the event is erased from the mind of the subject being abducted. This is the biggest difference between the two forms of abductions. To remember the event, the only way is through hypnotic regression. Some of the details may surface, but most of the time, the subjects are in a state of fear and confusion.

Originally posted by governmentsecrets
good post. i tend to agree with most of what you said. having had some really weird experiences while sleeping, and knowing that i was never "taken" from my room, having things done on the astral plane makes sense.

I actually saw my first "gray alien" at the age of 5 or so. I was unable to move, sleep paralyized and had these huge dark eyes looming over me.

actually ufo's have been seen by civilization for centuries now. historians know this to be true as ufo's are depicted in arts of all ages. below is a link to an example:


4.bp.blogspot.com...



I suggest u google more pics to see for yourself. and of course theres theories about ufo's in religious texts. but i dont profess to be an expert in religion. regardless i speculate that abductions were very common in early human civilization but became more discrete as humanity became more advanced. allegedly president truman organized a committee to deal with the rise of abductions and potential threat of ET's. legend goes that the MJ-12(majestic 12) made contact with the gray's and made an agreement with them. the ET's would share their weapon and technology to the humans and the grays would have the futile permission to abduct humans for there own agenda. however there was one condition. the gray's would have to list the names of the abductees and were only restricted to a fixed amount. over the decades the list grew larger and by the 90's the majestic 12 concluded that there was a myriad of abductees gone unreported. its said that one in four ppl have been abducted by now. but that can be debatable in my opinion. now its said that the us government is in conflict with the ET's and that the ET's have taken over the majority of black operations in the u.s.

such examples include the hostage situation in the dulce facility. try digging into that, its quite interesting.

Originally posted by game over man
Some more examples such as the Hag, would be interesting to hear.

Just found this on Wiki:

In neurobiology the expression Old Hag Attack refers to a hypnagogic state in which paralysis is present and, quite often, it is accompanied by terrifying hallucinations

In Persian folklore, the Bakhtak has the same role as that of "the Old Hag" in British folklore. The Bakhtak sits on a sleeper's chest, awakening them and causing them to feel they are unable to breathe or even to move.

Originally posted by lagenese
It is the first time i see this theory posted on this forum

I did a search because I wanted to read up on the theory and lo and behold...of thousands and thousands of threads, not a single one discussed the alien-astral idea. Thats surprising.

The reason is probably, that all the time is wasted with Skeptics vs. Believers discussions where the Skeptics say "dont exist" and the Believers say "are physical aliens".

So one misses the other possibilities out there...

They are two different things. An astral projection is just that; a divergence of the normal mind/body relationship.
And abduction of the physical body is completely different. It is kidnapping in so many words.
I don't know about greys or mj12 , but a meeting between earth humans and extraterrestrial humans has taken place on this planet before and probably it still takes place. Not every government knows everything. There is no one single organization, nation, or company which has a voice for humanity.
Humanity is rich in diversity and there are humans on other worlds. I believe that to be the case I should say.

i think its a very plausible theory actually. this is an eye opener to me actually because i have persian relatives (some very elderly) that have told me stories of these bakhtak's. another common astral-being in persian culture are called "jinns" which our dawrf beings that look very similiar to the british and european dipiction of these astral beings.

but im open to a couple possibilities. it could be perfect plausible that these astral-beings could be pulter-giest manifested in physical form, or ghosts projecting a hallucination to you. the mind is very powerful and can be easily manipulated under the wrong hands.


but to those that have been abducted, i ask this....


are any of you frequent smokers?
that includes ciggaretes and drugs

this could give us an idea if their looking for healthy ppl or just any human.

reply to post by Skyfloating


yes, i did a search as well and nothing turned up. I've followed these kinds of threads on a regular basis since i joined ATS.
I wanted to make a thread about this in the past, but the timing was not right. I follow my inner intuition a lot.

Skyfloating, thank you for this post. It is a subject close to my heart and falls in line with several threads (including the one in my signature) of my own and others' on ATS that I think deserved much more attention than what they received.

This thread includes, I think, a valuable bit of research. Though this and most all research relating to the notion of Astral abduction is mostly speculative, I nonetheless think that there is enough that fits into the theory to make it a subject worthy of further investigation.

I intend on compiling much of the research that I have come across into a single thread but for those who are interested now, I suggest the following links as a introduction to the more fringe elements of the subject.

I suspect that many are loathe to follow this path of investigation because it tends to lead to some very dark territory and ultimately leads towards the reptilian theory...however, that does not mean that it is not a possibility..
montalk
james bartley

cheers, Tamale

reply to post by Skyfloating


Not everything you said is as said. Especially the "hag" episode. I'm an experiencer.

My "hag" episode occurred as follows: In the early 1970s I used to sleep on my stomach. One night I "awoke" to find myself unable to move while on my stomach. I felt a weight on my back. The worst part of the experience was not that I was not able to rotate my body to lay on my back. As bad as that was it was the sound(s) that were the most awful screeching that I ever heard. Visuallize yourself standing in the middle of a group of jet planes parked in a circle pointing away from you so that the noise is aimed at you and you're in the open space of the circle. All of the jet engines are running at maximum rpm. That's what it sounded like.

My nephew was sleeping in the other room and the doors between our rooms were open. I tried to call out to him but I couldn't operate my vocal chords and that also was freaking me out. No one to come to my help. I had no idea what was happening to me. Then, the next thing I knew I was awake with an awful memory. What made the experience acceptable to me so as to not think about it any more was that I was familiar with the "Old Hag" having learned about it in the '60s.

I never associated my experience with aliens, alien abductions, UFOs, etc. I also never slept on my stomach again.

Good theory,

but I hate to break the party a bit here.

What happens to people who get abducted in a car, even while awake?
Also multiple people? They aren't always in a sleeping condition.

Originally posted by c-modamus
actually ufo's have been seen by civilization for centuries now. historians know this to be true as ufo's are depicted in arts of all ages. below is a link to an example:
4.bp.blogspot.com...
I suggest u google more pics to see for yourself.

I know about all that. You read about it on ATS every day. Ive even written about it.

Im wanting to post the non-ET-Theory in this thread. I think ETs do exist, but Im not sure the Greys are them.

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
They are two different things. An astral projection is just that; a divergence of the normal mind/body relationship.
And abduction of the physical body is completely different. It is kidnapping in so many words.

My personal experience indicates differently.

I don't know about greys or mj12 , but a meeting between earth humans and extraterrestrial humans has taken place on this planet before and probably it still takes place.

I didnt say that it doesnt take place.

Humanity is rich in diversity and there are humans on other worlds. I believe that to be the case I should say.

I didnt say ETs dont exist. Ive made several threads on ATS saying they do. But this thread is about Grays specifically.

There is some evidence that Grays may be astral. We shouldnt let our enthusiasm for real extraterrestrials get in the way of research.

Originally posted by bananasam
but I hate to break the party a bit here.
What happens to people who get abducted in a car, even while awake?
Also multiple people? They aren't always in a sleeping condition.

Ive only read about 2 or 3 cases on that up to now, but hundreds that involve bedrooms.

In finding truth one has to look at the rule not the exception.

Peruse THIS thread and notice the eyes in the drawing that the guy in the video gives.
The thread was just from tonight too.

In the video the guy, who is an avid astral traveller, tells a story of one of his astral experiences. He is acomputer graphics artist and provides a picture.

Anyway I thought it was pertinent.
The picture is close to the middle of the vid which is only ten minutes long.


--I guess to elaborate, it seems funny that of all the things he could have claimed to see, he sees an entity that in the eyes resembles a grey. Talk about coincidence!!

[edit on 9-11-2009 by heyo]