This is the United States of America, Not Europe

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by Wotan

 

I am not trying to be confrontational, here. Just voicing my opinion, in the form of a question. I am glad to discuss any of the facts. To properly address your comment would take quite a while. So, I limited my response to your country.

154,562 legal immigrants from the United Kingdom to the U.S.

www.dhs.gov...

As others in this thread have hinted at - I would like to see the breakdown of those figures.

Not being racist, but my betting is that there are not that many white Anglo Saxons amongst that number. You will find it is people that have emigrated into a European country, moved to the UK, obtained a UK passport, then emigrated to the US. A lot of people use the UK as a US springboard.

What I can't get past is the arrogance of complaining about Europeans wanting to change America when America has been doing exactly that to other countries for centuries now.

It's nothing more than sheer arrogance.

reply to post by Wotan

...my betting is that there are not that many white Anglo Saxons amongst that number.

I have given the source for my information, twice. Feel free to research your speculation, then come back with the figures. I'm really not sure how that changes the fact that immigrants are coming here and wanting to change things or that you and other Europeans are trying to project your will on us. You are there, I assume, because you like the way things are. I am here, for the same reason. I am happy for you and just ask for the same courtesy and respect. Why can't we just leave it at that?

Before someone jumps on that and accuses me of saying that the U.S. is perfect, I have not. We do have problems and will address them in our way and in our time. Offer advise, if you want, but don't be offended if we reject it. You are not perfect, either.

Edit: Spellcheck, Spellcheck, Spellcheck!

[edit on 8-11-2009 by WTFover]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by WTFover]

reply to post by WTFover


I'm not being defensive about anything.

You'd think you people would welcome inward investment in a failing economy. My old man lives just north of Trondheim, Norway. His pension is paid in Euros, which goes a long way in the USA these days. He likes the folks there so much (God alone knows why) that he bought a house at Frenchman's Creek, he whiles away his Winter months playing golf, sailing his little boat and entertaining his European friends who come to visit.

His Euros keep you people in work. If it weren't for guys like him, employing ingrates of your ilk, the Florida economy would be looking less than rosy.

My cousin, he was offered a job by the US subsidiary of a British company ; he was headhunted. And like with my Father, his wages keep you people in work. And he and his colleagues have pumped a hell of a lot of (foreign) money into that yard and its contractors, so he says anyway. But he doesn't intend staying there forever, there's no place like home & all that (*clicks heels and thinks of Kansas*).

I dunt think you understand quite how dependent the USA now is on foreign workers, foreign expertise and foreign capital. It'd be too much to expect an iota of humility, huh ?




[edit on 8-11-2009 by Ulala]

reply to post by WTFover


Because your health shouldn't be controlled by how much you earn, it's a basic human right.

It saddens me that some Americans are so self centred, and so in love with their tax dollars.

Why so much hate against socialism and Europe?

Originally posted by Kryties
What I can't get past is the arrogance of complaining about Europeans wanting to change America when America has been doing exactly that to other countries for centuries now.

It's nothing more than sheer arrogance.

1. Centuries? The United States of America is only 233 years old.

2. There are many of us who don't agree with what our 'government' does, sometimes. Pleasse don't confuse us (the people) with them.

Originally posted by WTFover
So, if the United States of America is so horrible and you have such a great desire to make us more "European", why are so many of you moving here? If it is so wonderfully Utopian there, why flee?

Im "European" and couldn't give a crap about your healthcare system!!!!!!

Also.. One 500th of the EU population A million people in 8 years? A 4000th of the EU population per year

Anyway, you are generalizing. The worst aspect of this site IMO.. AND!!!!! The main reason this argument kicked off is because Americans who didn't want socialized healthcare started mocking us because we had it.. of course we were going to retaliate.

Also..
Are you talking about EU citizens or European continent citizens?
Are you talking about Germanic, Anglo, Mediterranean or eastern Europeans?
Are you talking about ones from specific states with social healthcare or without?
If someone dislikes the US system and stays in the EU, do they fall into your category?
Also, how does a million out of 500 million speak for the volume of opinion? Especially when you have barely any demographic info.

500 million EU citizens & 850 million continental Europeans.
Most EU members have some kind of socialized healthcare.. most others do not.
EU members are generally very wealthy, why would they emigrate to the US? Non EU members are generally excessively poor.

I would assume that a large amount of those that move to the US are Irish and British.. not because there's anything wrong with Ireland and Britain or the rest of the EU but because they want to move and the US is the biggest English speaking country in the world.. does this make the US a utopia? No. IMO it makes the US and EU utopia's.

reply to post by Ulala


Defensive and just downright nasty. Oh yeah, maybe I do know them afterall. They are the only two people keeping our economy afloat. Thank them for me!.

Whatever.

reply to post by K-Raz


You are aware that we already have Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor, aren't you?

Originally posted by WTFover

1. Centuries? The United States of America is only 233 years old.

Ummm, 1st grade maths tells me that 233 years is 2.3 centuries, and 1st grade English tells me that the word "centuries" is plural - meaning more than one.

But if you want to split hairs then OK, I'll rephrase that to say "The US has been doing exactly that to other countries for many decades now". So, does this change the basic premise that it is arrogant to complain about Europeans wanting to change America? Nope.

2. There are many of us who don't agree with what our 'government' does, sometimes. Pleasse don't confuse us (the people) with them.

It is YOU complaining about the Europeans wanting to change America, not the government. I am answering YOUR OP not the US governments.

reply to post by WTFover


You might as well give up.

They are missing the point of the OP. Most will simply take this as an opportunity to slam the US over foreign policies and call Americans discussing the issue hypocrites etc. [Completely Sidestepping the Topic] Nor will they admit that in fact there are [White] European immigrants, stating they are temporary workers or only [Non-White] immigrants moving here from Europe etc.


It's a perfect opportunity to point out all the flaws in the US health care system then to state that they could careless.

reply to post by WTFover


OF course i am, i still just don't know what you're trolling for. You made thread containing some numbers, asked everyone else to find answers to their questions and you're pretty much acting like an ignorant douche.

Tell us how you really feel instead

reply to post by SLAYER69


Agreed. Is it possible to 'type' until you're blue in the face? I think I'm there. No wonder my Star Trek quote got no stars! They all believe in it.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by Kryties

 

You are making the huge claim that the reason they are moving is because of the health care reform.

I made no such claim. People are immigrating here, not because of the health care system, but in spite of it. I, simply, asked why are our immigration numbers so high, if our country is so horrible. Some people are reading way more into this thread, than what is really there.

Well look at the difference in wages, you talk to any crew at a construction site and they will practically roll their eyes. If any of you could move a couple hundred miles and make four - six - eight times more money would you? It is also true they move in spite of it, because they are making the MEGA bucks-

PS I get the thread - US cannot not afford European style HEalthcare because there are ten mexicans for every one immigrant in Europe. Correct?

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by K-Raz


Oh yeah, name calling really shows your level of intelligence. Try staying on topic and presenting factual arguments. I won't be doing your research for you. That I can respect.

Originally posted by WTFover
The question I pose now is why, exactly, are you Europeans so concerned with the United States of America having socialized health care?

We're not.

The anti-healthcare protagonists in the US made it about European health care systems by coming out with all kinds of vitriolic crap and nonsense about them.

When Europeans defended the systems that work for us, we get accused of being "concerned with the United States of America having socialised health care"

Fact of the matter is this, you either get it or you don't. It makes no difference to us either way round. We'll still have ours.

However, you do need to realise that the United States of America is part of the world. The world is NOT the United States of America. That means that we do things differently to you in some cases. It works for us.

All you guys need to do is figure out what works for you. I'm sure you will.

And no doubt you'll get what you deserve.

reply to post by WTFover


Now you are being hypocrytical. If it wasnt for European settlers, the US as it is today would not exist .... period. It was the first American settlers that imposed THEIR ways onto the Native Americans.

The more a nation is 'watered' down, the more it will change ..... It is called multicultureism. If suddenly, 500 million chinese or (insert nationality/culture) were to land in the US and take up residence, do you really think the ''American Way'' would last as it is now?

You adapt, or you are pushed aside ...... Its your choice.

reply to post by WTFover


Stating an obvious fact is not namecalling.

To stay on topic: I have no idea why any Europeans would move to the states unless they are from the poorer countries. Sorry to burst your bubble, but we do not look up to the united states - that died slowly in the 90ies - Don't try and hold us responsible for things that get passed in congress - you voted the guys in yourself so deal with it.

This whole healthcare things reeks with the same fear as the fear of communists after WW2.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
You might as well give up.

They are missing the point of the OP. Most will simply take this as an opportunity to slam the US over foreign policies and call Americans discussing the issue hypocrites etc.

Blaa blaa blaa blaa blaa!

More generalizing.. Im pretty confident I threw a half decent argument in there.. Just a few posts up.. you should check it out. Absolutely no foreign policy mentioned AT ALL.

Originally posted by neformore
And no doubt you'll get what you deserve.

That sounds like a threat of some description..

I like it.