Apollo 12's Covert EVA , Are E.T.'s the reason for the Secrecy ?

reply to post by mcrom901


Those are some great links there mcrom901! Definitely well worth people taking the time to read through, because they really help highlight how fascinating this "true color of the Moon" topic really is.

but what really pisses me off is this 'b/w lunar myth'.... which nasa happily feeds the general masses....

It is vexing, isn't it? NASA and the Powers That Be have really relied a lot on public ignorance of this topic to keep people color blind over the years. During the Apollo era, they went to significant lengths to perpetuate the myth amongst the general population that our view of the lunar disc from Earth shows a lack of color data simply because there really is very little visible color up there to speak of. The public is now beginning to appreciate that our terrestrial-based, atmospherically-filtered view of space is not the same as the unfiltered view you would be afforded if you were well above that atmospheric influence in the very clean near-vacuum cis-lunar or lunar orbit environment, under true "raw" lighting conditions.

Now, NASA has never really denied that there is visible color up there. As we are seeing in this thread, there are plenty of quotes and documents from the Apollo-era describing naked eye color detection, but of course, there is also plenty of contradictory "evidence" the public was fed during Apollo as well - particularly in the photographic realm - that does not support the truth about the visible color of the Moon. Prior to the Internet, the public's investigative options to examine this issue were severely limited remember, and during the Apollo era, NASA certainly did not go out of their way to inform the public that the Moon has plenty of visible color - quite the opposite in fact. In many ways they buried these facts in order to help perpetuate the "black&white/colorless" myth, and the reason they did this was in large part due to the "Dead Moon Dictum" that NASA was forced to adhere to.

It is downright easy for the general public to assume that the Moon lacks visible color because when we walk outside at night and look at it, we don't see any color - the old "seeing is believing" idea takes precedent, and NASA has capitalized on that powerful psychological thought process to let people remain color blind to the truth.

Enforcement of the Dead Moon Dictum relies on the rigid control of evidence as well as the exploitation of basic human psychological principles via propaganda to control what the average person perceives as being the truth, and the fact is that from a psychological perspective, the human mind typically interprets gray colors as being "dead and lifeless", and that is exactly the impression the PTB want us to have when we think of the Moon - dead and lifeless! Our Earth, teeming with life, is incredibly colorful, and the very idea of colors on the Moon - tans, browns, greens, blues - that creates the simplistic mental impression of the possibility that the Moon is, like the Earth, not a dead and lifeless world.

Now, of course the idea of color on the Moon certainly does not prove that there is life up there, but it does force a subconscious (and very powerful) link to be made in many people's minds between what we know to be the life-filled colors of Earth and any similar true colors we discover are present on the Moon. We do not want to admit that we are subject to that kind of basic psychological leveraging, but we ALL are - it is human nature to form those kinds of initial impressions, and that is a mental connection the PTB do not want the general public to be making. They are just fine with keeping people thinking that the Moon is just a mixture of contrasting gray colors like it looks from Earth because that has persuasive subconscious influence on enforcing the perception that the Moon is a dead world devoid of any life.

Cheers,
LC

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Yes, that inability to detect terrestrial greens from space is an interesting one. When the Apollo crews were looking back at the Earth during their trans-lunar coast phase, it was the green colors of the Earth that they lost the ability to detect with the naked eye first. Basically, the green colors faded so they first appeared as tans, and then those perceived tan areas of the continental landmasses continued to lose their color data, fading towards gray the further out the astronauts got.

STS astronauts and ISS crews have also commented before about how even from LEO, just a few hundred kilometers above the Earth, the terrestrial greens are heavily subdued. In fact, even from a civilian airliner at 40,000 feet, you will find that the atmosphere between the plane and the ground is enough to really kick the crap out of those green wavelengths, scattering and diffusing them towards tans and grays.

I had (and lost) a superb quote from astronaut Jim Lovell about this green color fading, and maybe somebody here can help me track it down again. Lovell made this quote during an interview he gave for a documentary TV series that used to air here in Canada (maybe on the Discovery Channel?) that was about the US and Russian space programs - sort of like a multi-part historical look-back at the space race, from Mercury to the shuttle. For the life of me I cannot recall the name of this series, but I seem to remember each episode was a half-hour in length, and the whole thing was narrated by Canadian actor Graham Greene I think. Does this ring any bells for anybody? I actually had the episode with the quote I am mentioning saved on my DVR recorder box for over two years, and a couple months ago the damn recorder crapped out on me and Rogers Cable had to replace the box so I lost it. If I could remember the name of the series I am sure I could track the actual quote down again.

Anyways, in the episode that I think dealt specifically with Apollo 13, they showed an interview with Jim Lovell where he talked about his space experiences. At one point when Lovell was talking about looking back at the Earth during the Apollo 13 mission, he said something to the effect that the first thing to go was the green color, and how he could be staring right at the Amazon Rainforest in South America - the greenest spot on our planet - and to the naked eye those greens would actually appear tan and then fade towards gray as altitudes progressively increased. It was a really good quote that I should have properly archived away when I had it, because it echoed or added to the observations related to Earth color fading made by Neil Armstrong during the Apollo 11 TV broadcast from 210,000 kilometers out.

When it comes to green colors on the lunar surface, during Apollo 17, the DSE Black Box recorded some comments about this from Command Module Pilot Ron Evans while he was around the far side of the Moon, flying solo in the CSM "America" while Cernan and Schmitt were down on the lunar surface. Evans was alone and was using the DSE as a personal voice recorder to document his far side observations in real-time. ExuberantOne posted a few of these transcript pages earlier in this thread I believe (thanks BTW!), where Evans reported observing "greenish-type areas", areas with a "greenish tint", and "dark-greenish layering". (pages 265, 266 and 267 of the Apollo 17 DSE Transcript PDF) More interesting comments regarding green colors also are given by Evans on pages 272 and 273 as well.

Here is the link to the Apollo 17 DSE Transcript in PDF format.
www.jsc.nasa.gov...

Cheers,
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita


Yes, that's something noticeable even with satellite photos, I though everyone had noticed that by now, we just have to look to a place we know on Google Earth, for example, to see that the greens are highly affected.

Originally posted by LunaCognita

I had (and lost) a superb quote from astronaut Jim Lovell about this green color fading, and maybe somebody here can help me track it down again. Lovell made this quote during an interview he gave for a documentary TV series that used to air here in Canada (maybe on the Discovery Channel?) that was about the US and Russian space programs - sort of like a multi-part historical look-back at the space race, from Mercury to the shuttle. For the life of me I cannot recall the name of this series, but I seem to remember each episode was a half-hour in length, and the whole thing was narrated by Canadian actor Graham Greene I think. Does this ring any bells for anybody? I actually had the episode with the quote I am mentioning saved on my DVR recorder box for over two years, and a couple months ago the damn recorder crapped out on me and Rogers Cable had to replace the box so I lost it. If I could remember the name of the series I am sure I could track the actual quote down again.

cheers luna.....

is this the documentary you are referring to?

www.imdb.com...



love the opening..... "the moon is essentially grey.... no colour"....

kinda in a hurry now.... will check for the rest later......

Originally posted by mcrom901
is this the documentary you are referring to?

You Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you! You bet that is it! "Rocket Science" - I dunno how I forgot that name. I will have to grab the whole series on DVD, as there was some other interesting clips and comments scattered throughout the whole documentary. Thanks again my friend! Much appreciated!

You also mentioned how at the beginning of that clip you posted above that it hits the viewer with with "the moon is essentially grey.... no colour" quote right off the bat. Since I was jabbering about the psychological aspects of the coverup a bit in my posts above, lemme just highlight something about that quote, as it also pertains to the head games played on us.

That quote, as many here are well aware, is a very famous one made by the crew of Apollo 8 during their first live television broadcast from lunar orbit. Now, you can hear that the quote is pretty damn emphatic - blatantly stating that the Moon has "no color" is about as straightforward and blunt as the astronauts could possibly be. So, why was it important for the crew of Apollo 8 in particular to emphatically voice the idea that the Moon has "no color" when seen from lunar orbit, even though we clearly know that is not the case at all? Well, it all has to do with the simply psychological principle we are all influenced by that is known simply as "First Impressions".

Let's remember that this particular TV broadcast was the very first broadcast in history from lunar orbit. This was the very first public description of naked eye observations about the Moon made from lunar orbit that we on Earth were ever made privy to and allowed to hear. This broadcast was a global event, with one of the largest audiences in history tuning in to listen and watch. The black&white TV camera used during the Apollo 8 mission obviously was not going to surrender any color information to the public, and this meant that the verbal descriptions from astronauts Borman, Lovell and Anders about the color of the Moon (or claimed total lack of color rather) would therefore become the literal "first impression" that we humans on Earth would get about what the color of the Moon looks like from up close.

The Powers That Be were very well aware that the human mind can be heavily influenced by first impressions, and since nobody had ever given us naked eye observations of the Moon before from up close, the Apollo 8 description was designed - yes, those comments were 100% SCRIPTED - to force upon the ignorant public who were eagerly tuning in to listen a POWERFUL first impression that would directly match the requirements of the "Dead Moon Dictum" I spoke of a bit previously.

Never discount the power that a first impression can have on influencing human perception, because you better believe the PTB who are really running the show know all about exploiting this stuff to screw with our heads! They know that our brains analyze new subject matter by forming instant biases, making instant relationships with other related preconceived notions we already have. The Moon in the night sky to the naked eye appears essentially colorless from Earth. That was the preconceived notion people had prior to Apollo 8 - that the Moon was colorless. And then, the Apollo 8 crew goes up there and gives the world a powerful first impression from lunar orbit apparently confirming that there is indeed "NO COLOR" to speak of on the Moon!

We now know from the mountains of evidence that the "no color" claim was a load of crap, and you can see that the reason the PTB made the Apollo 8 crew in particular lie to the world during that first TV broadcast was to exploit the psychological impact that the first impression of a claimed colorless Moon would have on the worldwide public, and notice how it perfectly fits the "Dead Moon Dictum" that the Apollo cover story was specifically designed to enforce!

Cheers,
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita


cherio luna... deep bow.... and again....

still trying to locate those videos..... maybe they're under different names

anyways.... here is something 'funny'.... the series 'rocket science' were produced by a company called 'foolish earthling productions'...

check here.... a couple of their 'works'.....





'in the land of the blind.... the one eyed king is god'.........

reply to post by mcrom901


Haha! "Foolish Earthling Productions" - Interesting! That is definitely a good name, and those other documentaries they did also look excellent. Thanks for finding those and turning me on to them Mcrom901! I was definitely impressed with the production values and content presentation of the "Rocket Science" series, so I will definitely want to check out their other works as well. By the way, I loved that video you posted there showing A.C. Clarke's dramatic re-enactment of the stomach busting scene from Alien using the one-eyed dog as a prop. That is a classic right there!

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by LunaCognita

 

Yes, that's something noticeable even with satellite photos, I though everyone had noticed that by now, we just have to look to a place we know on Google Earth, for example, to see that the greens are highly affected.

You are absolutely correct ArMaP that the fading of these terrestrial greens is readily noticeable in some satellite/spaced-based imagery, although I have to strongly disagree with your opinion that "everyone had noticed that by now".

Now, certainly many people on forums like here on ATS might have been aware of at least the basics of these fundamental facts, but that is typically because they have an interest in the subject matter and are far more informed about things like atmospheric influences on reflected color wavelengths than the vast majority of the planet's population is.

If you were to go and stop 100 random people on the street in any city on Earth and ask them what happens to green wavelengths of light reflected off the Earth when viewed by the naked eye from LEO or cis-lunar distances, I am willing to bet that the vast majority will not have a clue that the green colors suffer dramatic fading due to diffusive atmospheric effects, turning tan/grey as distances increase. Likewise, if you were to ask those same random people about what colors are visible on the Moon from up close in lunar orbit - I am pretty darn sure that about 99 out of those 100 random people are not going to give you "green", "blue", "brown" and "red" as a response. I think that most people today would probably be stunned when you told them about those kinds of colors being detectable to the naked eye up there!

Even though some people are well aware that the reflected greens on Earth fade dramatically when viewed from above looking down through the atmosphere, many of them still fail to appreciate that the same color fading principles are at play when they look up at the Moon through the same atmosphere. They just never made that opposite connection before, and it certainly is not something that has been part of NASA's public education curriculum to inform them of it. In fact, events like the Apollo 8 "first impressions" broadcast did (by design) the exact opposite, feeding highly publicized and powerfully definitive quotes that directly stated there was "no color" to be seen up there, and much of the Apollo orbital imagery the public was shown seemed to erroneously echo that "no color" idea as well.

While I think it is definitely fair to say the public is slowly becoming more informed about these fundamental facts, in my opinion we still have a long way to go yet before the majority of this planet's population could consider any of this information to be in the realm of "common knowledge". I sincerely wish it was common knowledge, but I don't think it is even close to meeting that threshold yet.

Cheers,
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita


What I meant was that I thought that anyone that has looked at satellite photos had noticed that, not that all people are aware of it.

I once heard a girl saying that the grass is really yellow, it only looks green because the sky is blue, so I know that some people will never know some things, even when they are just in front of their eyes.

Originally posted by LunaCognita

Even though some people are well aware that the reflected greens on Earth fade dramatically when viewed from above looking down through the atmosphere, many of them still fail to appreciate that the same color fading principles are at play when they look up at the Moon through the same atmosphere. They just never made that opposite connection before, and it certainly is not something that has been part of NASA's public education curriculum to inform them of it. In fact, events like the Apollo 8 "first impressions" broadcast did (by design) the exact opposite, feeding highly publicized and powerfully definitive quotes that directly stated there was "no color" to be seen up there, and much of the Apollo orbital imagery the public was shown seemed to erroneously echo that "no color" idea as well.

concerning the observations of apollo 8.... in regards to the colours of earth.... its kinda weird.... they seem to be describing things which they clearly are unable to see.... or is it just me..... check here....



this is from an approximate distance of 325,000 km......

history.nasa.gov...

055:10:28 Lovell: What you're seeing, Mike, is a - Houston, what you are seeing is the Western Hemisphere. Looking at the top [left in this image] is the North Pole; in the center - just lower to the center is South America - all the way down to Cape Horn. I can see Baja California and the southwestern part of the United States. There's a big, long cloud bank going northeast, covers a lot of the Gulf of Mexico, going up to the eastern part of the United States, and it appears now that the east coast is cloudy. I can see clouds over parts of Mexico; the parts of Central America are clear. And we can also see the white, bright spot of the subsolar point on the light side of the Earth.

[The Earth has drifted to the top edge of the picture, requiring a readjustment of their attitude to bring it back in.]

055:11:28 Collins: Roger. Could you give us some ideas about the colors, and also, could you try a slight maneuver? It's disappearing. We're seeing about half of it. It's going off to our 12 o'clock. Now it is going off to our 3 o'clock. That is the wrong direction. Yes, that is a good direction. [Pause.]

055:11:50 Collins: We need another small correction to bring it to our center screen. If you could maneuver toward the terminator, that is the part of it we are missing. We are getting the lighted portion. There you go; that's fine. Stop it right there.

[Judging by the final motion that brings the Earth into view, it seems the camera's aim has been adjusted in the bracket as well as a change being made to the spacecraft's attitude.]

[With the aiming directions referencing the view from the camera, moving the camera, rather than the entire spacecraft makes sense. Such maneuvering also conserves RCS propellant, which is already above pre-flight estimates.]

055:12:17 Lovell: Okay. For colors, the waters are all sort of a royal blue; clouds, of course, are bright white; the reflection off the Earth is - appears much greater than the Moon. The land areas are generally a brownish - sort of dark brownish to light brown in texture. Many of the vortices of clouds can be seen of the various weather cells, and a long band of - it appears cirrus clouds that extend from the entrance to the Gulf of Mexico going straight out across the Atlantic. The terminator, of course, cuts through the Atlantic Ocean right now, going from north to south. [The] southern hemisphere is almost completely clouded over, and up near the North Pole there is quite a few clouds. Southwestern Texas and southwestern United States is clear. I'd say there are some clouds up in the northwest and over in the northeast portion.

[The Earth smartly moves off the top of the picture.]

055:15:38 Collins: That is the wrong 90 degrees. 180 degrees away from that one. [Pause.]

055:15:47 Collins: Stop right there. [Pause.] Okay. Now we have lost a different half of it. I need a motion 90 degrees to that last one. [Long pause.]

055:16:24 Collins: That is good right there, Bill. That is good right there. [Pause.]

055:16:42 Collins: Apollo 8, Houston. If you can stick your polarizing filter in front of the camera without disturbing anything else, it might improve the quality slightly.

055:17:02 Anders: Stand by.

055:17:04 Collins: Roger, Bill. [Pause.]

[A slight dip in the image brightness betrays the placing of the polarising filter but once the brightness recovers, very little difference is visible. Note that no attempt seems to have been made to rotate this filter, an operation closely tied in to the way the filter works.]

[Light exhibits wave-like behaviour that can be likened to wiggling a long rope. For most light sources, though the direction of the "transverse" wiggle is at right angles to the direction of travel, the plane of the wiggle can be at any angle around that direction of travel. This is unpolarised light. However, it is possible to limit transverse waves so that the wiggle is preferentially along one axis, somewhat like someone shaking a rope only in the up/down direction rather than the left/right direction.]

[Certain circumstances in nature tend to polarise light. Light reflecting off objects at a low incidence angle becomes polarised, as does sunlight being scattered to make a blue sky. Some substances also polarise light passing through, allowing filters to be produced with this property. If you pass an unpolarised light beam through two polarising filters, both of which are aligned to polarise in the same direction, the beam will emerge only slightly dimmed. Rotate one filter by 90° and the beam will be cut off entirely. Photographers find polarising filters very useful because they can be rotated to exclude light from polarised sources. Therefore the sky can be made to look a deeper shade of blue; or, by removing the specular reflection from each blade of grass, a lawn can appear a much richer shade of green; or the reflection of the sky on the surface of a pond or river can be nearly eliminated, allowing the objects beneath to become much more visible.]

cntd....

[To get the best use of the polarising filter on the TV camera, Bill would need to rotate the filter, looking for changes in the image of Earth as a result of varying the angle of polarisation. As he does not have a monitor with which to view the output of the camera, this is essentially impossible.]

055:17:12 Anders: Okay. The polarizing filter is in front. [Pause.]

055:17:24 Anders: How is it now, Mike?

055:17:28 Collins: It's still looking good. That didn't make much of a change one way or another, but in general, considering how far away, it's looking excellent. [Pause.]

055:17:51 Anders: Well, I hope that everyone enjoys the picture that we are taking of themselves. [Pause.] How far away from Earth now, Jim, about?

055:18:03 Collins: We have you about 180,000 [nautical miles].

055:18:11 Anders: You are looking at yourselves at 180,000 miles out in space. [Pause.]

055:18:22 Lovell: Mike, what I keep imagining is, if I'm a - some lonely traveler from another planet, what I think about the Earth at this altitude, whether I think it'd be inhabited or not.

055:18:31 Collins: Don't see anybody waving; is that what you are saying?

055:18:36 Lovell: I was just kind of curious whether I would land on the blue or the brown part of the Earth.

[Perhaps Frank wants to maintain his sanity by not going through another aiming exercise.]

055:24:26 Collins: You're still very well centered with your picture. We noticed a couple of jumps in the apparent intensity. Did you make some filter changes?

055:24:37 Borman: Roger. We tried to put that other red filter in front of it, but it didn't seem to fit.

055:24:43 Collins: Roger. [Pause.]

[Since the Earth is mostly blue and white, with a little brown, using a red filter in front of a black and white camera should darken the blue of the sea while retaining the lightness of the land, so it should improve the contrast between the two. However, the low quality of the TV image makes it difficult to spot]

055:24:49 Collins: We'd - On a final test when you get down to the end of your allotted time here, we would like you to remove all filters and let us see how it looks with all filters removed, and then we would like to get several spotmeter readings at the very end after the test.

055:25:13 Borman: Okay. We will be removing the red filter now.

055:25:15 Collins: Roger. [Long pause.]

055:25:50 Borman: Do you still have us, Mike? The lens [means filter] is off now.

Dionysius (Real Color)

The crater Dionysius (3°N, 17°E; western edge of Mare Tranquillitatis; 18 kilometers in diameter) shows striking contrasts in albedo. The outside of the crater is a very bright halo in its near-rim field, while farther out, darker material is exposed, including rare dark rays. Crater deposits on the left side of this mosaic are on light Cayley plains of highland composition, while deposits on the right side are on the basalts of Mare Tranquillitatis.

www.lpi.usra.edu...

Apollo 16 Site (Real Color)

This is the Apollo 16 landing site as seen from the orbiting Clementine spacecraft. This is a “natural” color rendition of the site (see caption of slide #10 for color scheme). Clementine images were deliberately taken at very low phase angles (high Sun angles) to emphasize color differences, so surface textures are much less apparent here than in the orbital Apollo view (slide #13). Note the very bright appearance of South Ray and North Ray Craters (center right).

www.lpi.usra.edu...

Aristarchus Plateau (Real Color)

A mosaic of more than 250 images showing the complex and diverse Aristarchus region of the Moon in approximately “natural” colors (blue = 415 nanometers, green = 750 nanometers, red = 950 nanometers). The plateau is an uplifted block of complex, highland terrain, partly flooded by later mare basalt lavas. Dark, pyroclastic glasses partly cover the uplifted terrain. The crater Aristarchus (47 kilometers in diameter) has formed in the southeast corner of the plateau, excavating both highlands and mare rocks.

www.lpi.usra.edu...

also check the following comments regarding aristarchus....

reply to post by mcrom901

There are no true color images from Clementine. It was not capable of producing true color images. Out of the the three filters used in the images of you show, only one (415nm) is in the visual range.

10. Aristarchus Plateau (Real Color)

A mosaic of more than 250 images showing the complex and diverse Aristarchus region of the Moon in approximately “natural” colors (blue = 415 nanometers, green = 750 nanometers, red = 950 nanometers).

reply to post by Phage


cheers.... whats your take on this one?

reply to post by mcrom901

My take?
I'll go along with what the caption says. It's five images taken in five different wavelenths and a "natural" color composite of all of them.

I wonder why people keep on saying that Clementine photos show natural (or true or whatever name is used) colours and none of its cameras had that capability.

To recreate natural colours on a RGB system, like a computer screen, you would use three RGB images, each from the right wavelength for red, green and blue, and that is impossible with the filters used by Clementine.

What I think was done was something like what I do with the Mars rovers' photos when I don't have the right channels, I change the brightness and contrast of the wrong channel to make the end result look closer to what I have seen in real RGB images.

But that is cheating, because the photo is altered to give the results we want.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I wonder why people keep on saying that Clementine photos show natural (or true or whatever name is used) colours and none of its cameras had that capability.

I was wondering the same thing.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by mcrom901

 

My take?
I'll go along with what the caption says. It's five images taken in five different wavelenths and a "natural" color composite of all of them.

So Phage would I be correct in inferring from this that you believe the color composite done from images at 5 wavelengths is a better estimate of natural color than the other composites done from only 3 wavelengths, 2 of which were not in the visible range?

I guess maybe they didn't have the time or bandwidth to use all 5 wavelengths for the moon images like they did for the Earth images.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

No.
It wouldn't be a better estimate because it still involves only one visible wavelength.

In the lunar surface images we know what visible colors were substituted for the imaged colors (blue = 415 nanometers, green = 750 nanometers, red = 950 nanometers). In the image of Earth we don't know that. Even if we assume those three were used, we still don't know what the other two were (900nm and 1000nm). The selection would be just as arbitrary. Since it appears somewhat natural (but really not very) I would guess that the colors were intentionally selected that would make it look that way.

Originally posted by mcrom901

love the opening..... "the moon is essentially grey.... no colour"....

jeeeze you can't help but to laugh when you listen to that clip

thanks

Apollo Astronauts and UFO's

www.youtube.com...